[Spindrift]

nope! loved it.
Well, it had some serious pacing issues with the last hundred pages going 10 times quicker and harder than the entire rest of the book.
I still think it was great though.

[stone monkey]

I thought the pyrotechnics towards the enf of Matter were quite well handled but I did find the change of pace and direction in the middle of the book a bit jarring. It did seem to come out of nowhere.

[ch'arlz]

I'm about halfway through and will admit to being somewhat disappointed so far. The tone reminds me of A Song of Stone, one of his weakest novels, imho.

[stone monkey]

As you're halfway through, I can only say that the book really isn't going to go where you expect it to.

[Yellow]

I dunno. Where did you see it going, other than where it went? The pacing was so off that it was clear something like that was going to happen.

[ch'arlz]

admittedly i'm only halfway thru, but one source of my disappointment is that this is billed as a Culture novel, but so far, the Culture has been at best peripheral.

[Yellow]

That was my problem with it as well. We've waited so bloody long for a Culture novel!

[Seed]

I found Matter to be slow going at the start but it warmed up after a dozen chapters. Nice look into SC in this book, however the abrupt ending left me with a need for a better or even just more explanatory closure, although enough information is given in the epilogue for you to determine what happened it still felt lacking. Like running into a brickwall when you've cruising along the freeway, right when you were expecting to take the nice gentle offramp instead.

As a culture novel goes, it's no worse than use of weapons for being peripherally related to the culture, in fact it had more Culture jaunting-around than I was actually expecting going by some people's reviews.

Having said all that I still quite enjoyed the book and it gets top marks for making me want to be a member of the culture badly.

[caladanbrood]

While vastly superior to the dissapointing "Algebraist", this latest from Banks seems to hark back to his previous war-torn Culture novels ("Use of Weapons" springs to mind) without quite managing to find the excellent level those previous books rose to. While the whole Shellworld idea was entertaining, it also struck a few discordant notes, and the ending was overall fairly dissapointing - both rushed and unsatisfactory. Not up to what I would normally expect from such an excellent author. On the plus side however, the characters were as entertaining as ever, and the usual spatter of eccentric Ship Minds and bizarre cultural details kept the book entertaining, if not exactly gripping.

[ch'arlz]

caladanbrood;270501 said:

While vastly superior to the dissapointing "Algebraist",

_Algebraist_ at least was full of wonderfully imagined aliens. Not quite done with it but so far _Matter_ is quite pedestrian compared to other Banks books. I feel a need to reread _Feersum Endjinn_ coming on.

[caladanbrood]

Eck. Algebraist was just entirely uninteresting. I struggled to finish that book, I'll be honest. Probably because to me, Banks = Culture, and as soon as you take that away I've always got that thing in the back of my mind that says "Dammit, this would be so much better if Diziet Sma and Skaffen Amtiskaw turned up on the next page..."

[Spindrift]

^
makes sense i guess. i read and fell in love with his non-culture & culture-peripheral novels first, so when the culture gets the limelight it's a treat, but not an expectation.

[ch'arlz]

caladanbrood;270892 said:

Probably because to me, Banks = Culture,

try _Feersum Endjinn_, I believe it's just been reissued. then let me know what you think about Banks' non-Culture brilliance.

[caladanbrood]

Oh, I have read it;)

Gave me a headache, but it was fun, in it's own way. Too damn confusing for any Culturey thoughts to creep in, I suppose.

[Yellow]

I thought Feersum was a bit crap, tbh. Some interesting ideas, but ideas aren't enough to carry it over.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Got to agree that the ending was very abrupt. However many hundred pages of Tyl Loesp and Oramen manoeuvering against each other and then

Spoiler

that Iln machine just nukes a healthy percentage of the cast

and we don't get any further explanation at all? I'd like to know what the deal was between the Morthanveld and the Culture for one thing, and also what was up with the Oct and the Aultridia. They weren't even mentioned after a certain point.

I don't mind the distance kept from the Culture. It's actually pretty Culture-heavy compared to a lot of the novels. Especially when you compare it to "Inversions".

[Illuyankas]

I could summarise the whole book like this: (REALLY heavy spoilers)

Spoiler

PoV 1: Djan. SC Agent, hears of father's death at Point C, takes 500 pages to go from Point A, via Point B, to Point C. Is reluctant. Meets Ferbin at Point B. Explodes herself within 10 pages of arriving at Point C.

PoV 2: Ferbian (and Holse). Prince (and servant). Witnesses king and father's death in Point C. Flees from Point C via Point B to Point A. Is spoiled. Meets Djan at Point B. Hasn't a clue what's going on during the fight scenes, and since he's the PoV for them, neither do we. Dies. (Discovers brain, survives book and becomes SC agent at Point C. Has teeth whitened.)

PoV 3: Split between Oramen and Tyl Loesp. Oramen, also a prince, and heir. Spends almost whole book whoring and drinking, ignores every possible sign of the impending coup. Is a dumbass. Dies offscreen like a chump. Tyl Loesp, Grand Vizier. Kills the king, who was every other PoV's father. Is EVIL. Does more evil things for the whole book. Dies.

Plus some more stuff, but it never gets referenced again, so you haven't missed anything.

Point A: Culture. It's a big place.
Point B: Nudist Camp. Wasn't really important.
Point C: Medieval Zoo World.

I was expecting Djan to be in the court, trying to help Oramen and styming Tyl Loesp at every turn with SC hax, not this. Sure, the Shellworld history and the Falls were interesting, but a backdrop does not make a good story on its own.

[caladanbrood]

Well you could summarise most books that way if you wanted to try;)

I'm assuming that the Morthanveld/Culture tensions are setting up for another book. Otherwise they did seem kind of... pointless, storywise.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Illuyankas;271334 said:

Spoiler

PoV 2: Ferbian (and Holse). Prince (and servant). Witnesses king and father's death in Point C. Flees from Point C via Point B to Point A. Is spoiled. Meets Djan at Point B. Hasn't a clue what's going on during the fight scenes, and since he's the PoV for them, neither do we. Dies. (Discovers brain, survives book and becomes SC agent at Point C. Has teeth whitened.)

Related question (spoiler):

Spoiler

I take it you're referring to the man who accompanied Holse in the epilogue? I thought he was the first avatar of the Liveware Problem that Djan met, which is why he was described as being at a loose end. No reason to think he's a resurrected Ferbin, especially since Ferbin wasn't a Culture citizen and won't have had a backup for revival.

[Yellow]

caladanbrood;271339 said:

Well you could summarise most books that way if you wanted to try;)

I'm assuming that the Morthanveld/Culture tensions are setting up for another book. Otherwise they did seem kind of... pointless, storywise.

Banks generally doesn't do setups or sequels, so I'd put it pretty squarely in the "pointless" category.