[Jimmy]

Have I got it all wrong? Or does Cutter say, 'He's my uncle.' When the undead segulah leaves.

[Illuyankas]

He's referring to Mammot, or whatever the Soldier said his name was - Mammoltan?

[Monoch Ochem]

And didn't the Soldier scoff at him saying that as well (memory loss here)? As If to say "Your Uncle! Hah! Is that what he told you? Hah!"...or something like that. But yeah, it was Mammot that Cutter was referring to.

[tiam]

alot of mysteries surrounding the cabal but then again we dont know how long the soldiers being gone. Could merely be a year or 2

[Dolorous Menhir]

tiam said:

alot of mysteries surrounding the cabal but then again we dont know how long the soldiers being gone. Could merely be a year or 2

No way it's as short a time period as that, there is a wealth of evidence in the Soldier's words and actions to suggest he's been out of touch with Genebackis at least, probably the mundane world as a whole, for a very long time, I'm talking millenia here. I reckon he has been dead, and a servant of Hood, for a very long time.

[Monoch Ochem]

He's clearly been gone a long time for everyone to be ignorant of a previous Tyrant...or at least Cutter was ignorant. Heboric probably wasn't but didn't see fit to comment.

[Folken]

Dolorous Menhir said:

No way it's as short a time period as that, there is a wealth of evidence in the Soldier's words and actions to suggest he's been out of touch with Genebackis at least, probably the mundane world as a whole, for a very long time, I'm talking millenia here. I reckon he has been dead, and a servant of Hood, for a very long time.

Not really...the 2nd has been missing...if he was missing for a millinia I'm sure there would be a a new 2nd by now. But it could very well have been a decade or so. But not anymore than that...its a big deal in the book that the 2nd is missing so yeah...


As to his knowledge...well he is a servant of Hood. He may well just have aquired such knowledge

[Dark Mac]

Jen said:

Not really...the 2nd has been missing...if he was missing for a millinia I'm sure there would be a a new 2nd by now. But it could very well have been a decade or so. But not anymore than that...its a big deal in the book that the 2nd is missing so yeah...

Rake is still the Seventh, and that happened centuries (if not millenia) ago. I don't know if they know he's still alive, or if they know the Second is still active.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Exactly, Rake became the Seventh a long time ago, and then had zero further contact with Seguleh.

And yet he still holds the position, and is known to all Seguleh.

The fact that the Second is missing as of MoI does not tell us anything about how long he's been missing for, you can't say "well, the Seguleh will just scratch his name off the lists after x time passes, so that's the most he's been gone".

That's not the way their rigid system works.

Plus it's possible he is an old Second, who still carries the mask - but note, does not wear it - though I doubt this is so, for storyline reasons.

[Folken]

That still dont explain why its such a big deal that the 2nd is missing...you know...

But I do stand corrected on that "new 2nd" part...but then that brings the next question...can the 3rd attack the 1st without having won over 2nd;)

well okay never mind that can also be answered by Rake...grr...

But I still think it had to have been recent from the way the 2nd is mentioned you know. If he's been gone for a kagillion years you think they'd say that rather than "oh he's missing" recent I mea...bah I give up:( I confused myself

[Trotts]

Yea, I gotta say, all the stuff you hear about the second makes me think decades to centuries, certainly nothing as dramatic as millenia.

[Brys Beddict]

I think it's mentioned in MoI that Mok was sent with Senu and Thurule because the first was getting nervous of Mok's skills with the sword.

[4092]

Hmmmm. I think the fact that, as Monok Ochem pointed out, the Seguleh's scuffing ("Your Uncle! Hah! Is that what he told you? Hah!"as MO put it) does indicate something about the Cabal, but more interestingly, it would suggest that Crokus is not related to Mammot?

What do we know of Crokus's/Cutter's childhood? Why was his UNCLE raising him instead of his parents? Was any explanation of it ever given in previous books?

What if Crokus/Cutter isn't related to Mammot? Maybe he has some type of prophecy to fulfil, hence his specail upbringing by a member of the Torrud?

However, I have to say that waht I said probably does not add up, because Baruk seems unaware of the boy most of the time in GOTM..

---------------------
EDIT: DOH ok this links into the other thread http://www.malazanem...read.php?t=5197

Maybe Mammot was raising Crokus for something ..special...

[Monoch Ochem]

Was Baruk really ignoring Crokus though...he seemed to express some interest in the fact that Crokus finally wanted Mammot to teach him.

I do maintain some scepticism there about Mammot being Crokus' biological uncle 4092. If the Cabal is as old as we're inclined to believe then Mammot's sister or brother would have been long dead. Crokus would have to be much older. So the Soldier was probably onto something there.

Then think of how Cutter's evolved into this new, important player within the story-line... as Kruppe may have put it, "suspicions abound within the realms of one's corpulent mind!"

[tiam]

Crokus parents werekilled by the Winged plague when Crokus was a child. Thats about all we know so maybe Crokus has been chosen but maybe mammot just took the boy in out of sympathy then to save complication clai med he was his uncle

[Trotts]

Uncle doesn't always neccessarily infer blood lineage. I mean I call most of my dads friends 'uncle' even though they arent related.