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So just a warning this has a bit of a spoiler to it...not much but still.
Anyways so in DG we learn that Kellenved had his own breed of assassin called the Talon that was supposedly wiped out by the Claw. Anyways I was wondering if the Order still exists or if Baudin is (was?) a lone survivor of the group. If the Talon still exist in an organized manner who is it that is ordering them?
Baudin and the Talon
#2
Folken 
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Posted 10 June 2006 - 04:30 AM
Read on, your answers lie in House of Chains. The Talon were Dancer's group of assassins btw.
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#3
Mallet
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Posted 10 June 2006 - 04:35 AM
I've read HoC, I guess I just forgot about the details. Though now that you mention it it seems like there was a commander of the Talon...wasn't it that outlawed Fist? His name won't come to me at the moment.
#4
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 10 June 2006 - 09:32 AM
Dancer was the commander of the Talon, just as Surly commands the Claw.
Right?
Right?
#5 Guest_potsherds_*
Posted 10 June 2006 - 02:40 PM
I'm pretty sure you're correct Dolorous.
#6
bwgan
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Posted 10 June 2006 - 05:07 PM
Didn't Baudin say that there were only a few left, and that they were sons? I sort of took that to mean that the secret was being kept father to son, so I don't expect they were particularly organised as such. One small question I have always had was how did Tavore get her hands on (if you'll pardon the expression) the Talon and Baudin at all. She seems much too young to have known any of thm personally (even if she did how likely is it that they would reveal their identities as members of the Talon) and as she is so closely allied to Laseen why would she have any 'official' connection to them?
'Tell me, Tool, what dominates your thoughts?'
The Imass shrugged before replying. 'I think of Mafia, Adjunct.'
'Do all Imass think about Mafia?'
'No. Few think at all.'
'Why is that?'
The Imass leaned his head to one side and regarded her. 'Because, Adjunct, they are sheeple.'
Sometimes I wonder, "Why is that frisbee getting bigger?" ... and then it hits me.
The Imass shrugged before replying. 'I think of Mafia, Adjunct.'
'Do all Imass think about Mafia?'
'No. Few think at all.'
'Why is that?'
The Imass leaned his head to one side and regarded her. 'Because, Adjunct, they are sheeple.'
Sometimes I wonder, "Why is that frisbee getting bigger?" ... and then it hits me.
#7 Guest_potsherds_*
Posted 10 June 2006 - 07:25 PM
She doesn't have any official connection to the Talon. She was attempting to save her sister after condemning her to the Otataral mines. This was not something Laseen knew about or would have approved of. It likely would have infuriated her, and lost Tavore Laseen's trust.
As to how she ever got in contact with the Talon, I'd say that its meant to be a simple assumption that with all Tavore's intelligence and political acumen, she simply found a way. Don't forget she had a decent amount of money at her disposal (being nobility), so the gathering of information was likely not a problem.
As to how she ever got in contact with the Talon, I'd say that its meant to be a simple assumption that with all Tavore's intelligence and political acumen, she simply found a way. Don't forget she had a decent amount of money at her disposal (being nobility), so the gathering of information was likely not a problem.
#9
Folken
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Posted 10 June 2006 - 10:11 PM
Self proclaimed leader...never official. Most of the original Talon died out. I suspect the group we encounter in House of Chains might well be the last surviving group. As for the one from which Baudin came from...wouldn't call them original. More like hand me down Talons.
<div align='center'>You must always strive to be the best, but you must never believe that you are - Juan Manuel Fangio</div>
#10
bwgan
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Posted 10 June 2006 - 10:39 PM
@Potsherds ~ yep, I know why, just not how. As I said I know it couldn't have been through official channels, and it isn't even a huge question/problem for me, more a curiosity. As for money...hm, not totally convinced ~ they were supposed to have been wiped out, therefore, had become extremely secret, even Heboric was surprised...nay shocked :eek: I just wonder who and how...I have got a slight suspicion, but....:outta:
'Tell me, Tool, what dominates your thoughts?'
The Imass shrugged before replying. 'I think of Mafia, Adjunct.'
'Do all Imass think about Mafia?'
'No. Few think at all.'
'Why is that?'
The Imass leaned his head to one side and regarded her. 'Because, Adjunct, they are sheeple.'
Sometimes I wonder, "Why is that frisbee getting bigger?" ... and then it hits me.
The Imass shrugged before replying. 'I think of Mafia, Adjunct.'
'Do all Imass think about Mafia?'
'No. Few think at all.'
'Why is that?'
The Imass leaned his head to one side and regarded her. 'Because, Adjunct, they are sheeple.'
Sometimes I wonder, "Why is that frisbee getting bigger?" ... and then it hits me.
#11
tiam
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Posted 12 June 2006 - 06:13 AM
bwgan said:
@Potsherds ~ yep, I know why, just not how. As I said I know it couldn't have been through official channels, and it isn't even a huge question/problem for me, more a curiosity. As for money...hm, not totally convinced ~ they were supposed to have been wiped out, therefore, had become extremely secret, even Heboric was surprised...nay shocked :eek: I just wonder who and how...I have got a slight suspicion, but....:outta:
I thought tavore found them because she was a noble.
when tavore first sees Pearl she says how fare the talon which means there are still remnants of the original cult. But i thought at one point someone (pearl?) said that they had found support fom the nobility? Maybe the parans were supporting the claws or anoher close family was and tavore took an opportunity after the culling
#12
SiriusL
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Posted 12 June 2006 - 09:30 PM
tiam said:
I thought tavore found them because she was a noble.
when tavore first sees Pearl she says how fare the talon which means there are still remnants of the original cult. But i thought at one point someone (pearl?) said that they had found support fom the nobility? Maybe the parans were supporting the claws or anoher close family was and tavore took an opportunity after the culling
when tavore first sees Pearl she says how fare the talon which means there are still remnants of the original cult. But i thought at one point someone (pearl?) said that they had found support fom the nobility? Maybe the parans were supporting the claws or anoher close family was and tavore took an opportunity after the culling
I believe that's right--I remember mention being made of the Talons and some connection to the Malaz nobility. Did the nobles hid the Talons from the Claw?
@Mallet: Yes, it was Korbolo Dom who was leading the neo-Talons. He had them kill the Whirlwind Goddess, as well as attempt to kill several others (I believe). It's really only hinted at in the book, but Cotillion figures it out right after he kicks a bunch of Tiste Edur ass on Drift Avalii. He hints at the truth to Ammanas.
#14
Illuyankas
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Posted 15 June 2006 - 02:28 PM
Reloe wasn't a Fist, he was a High Mage.
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
#16
Trotts
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Posted 18 June 2006 - 04:04 AM
Quote
O.K. so Dancer was the leader of the Talon. But who is now. I seem to recall it maybe being that fist that joined Sha'ik but I can't remember.
Well now, Dancer never really died, he just ascended. I believe, before Cutter sets off on his journy, Cotillion gives him a talon.
#17
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 18 June 2006 - 12:28 PM
Nobody led the Talon, they were supposed to have been purged when Surly assassinated Dancer. They were removed from official histories and the survivors (Baudin senior, Hawl, presumably others too) went deep underground. Pearl was shocked when Tavore even spoke of them, he believed the organisation no longer existed.
Korbolo Dom sought to rebuild the Talon, and declared himself its leader, but I don't think there was any continuity between the original Talon and Dom's creation, they were separate organisations with the same name. The only HoC Talon I can think of who may have also been one of Dancer's Talons was the assassin who taunted Kalam -
"do you remember me?"
"no. stab stab."
I always wanted to know who that guy was, if he was an old Talon then maybe he knew Kalam when he was in the Claw.
Korbolo Dom sought to rebuild the Talon, and declared himself its leader, but I don't think there was any continuity between the original Talon and Dom's creation, they were separate organisations with the same name. The only HoC Talon I can think of who may have also been one of Dancer's Talons was the assassin who taunted Kalam -
"do you remember me?"
"no. stab stab."
I always wanted to know who that guy was, if he was an old Talon then maybe he knew Kalam when he was in the Claw.
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Posted 18 June 2006 - 05:30 PM
The Talon were Dancer's.... as the Claw belonged to Surly.
The 'new' Talon as you said were Korbolo Dom's creation, hence Cotillion's anger and need to exterminate them, using QB and Kalam.
As Kalam was never a Talon, you'd have to think the other guy was once in the Claw.
The 'new' Talon as you said were Korbolo Dom's creation, hence Cotillion's anger and need to exterminate them, using QB and Kalam.
As Kalam was never a Talon, you'd have to think the other guy was once in the Claw.
#19
tiam
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Posted 19 June 2006 - 06:19 AM
i had a theory that he was one of the falahds bodyguards. When Dom has all them assasins satnd in front of him he says that 3 are from the time of the falahd. i assumed that this one was the one kalam fought as that seems to be the only explanation as to how kalam would remember him. The other assasin are from various tribes and 2 are Doms personal ones. i just thought they could have met before the empire turned up
thoughts
thoughts
#20
Aptorian
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Posted 19 June 2006 - 08:15 AM
SiriusL said:
I believe that's right--I remember mention being made of the Talons and some connection to the Malaz nobility. Did the nobles hid the Talons from the Claw?
@Mallet: Yes, it was Korbolo Dom who was leading the neo-Talons. He had them kill the Whirlwind Goddess, as well as attempt to kill several others (I believe). It's really only hinted at in the book, but Cotillion figures it out right after he kicks a bunch of Tiste Edur ass on Drift Avalii. He hints at the truth to Ammanas.
@Mallet: Yes, it was Korbolo Dom who was leading the neo-Talons. He had them kill the Whirlwind Goddess, as well as attempt to kill several others (I believe). It's really only hinted at in the book, but Cotillion figures it out right after he kicks a bunch of Tiste Edur ass on Drift Avalii. He hints at the truth to Ammanas.
Wait, the Talon killed the Goddess?!
It's been a long while since I read that book, but I thought it was a bunch of T'lan Imass that killed her.
Somehow, the idea of a bunch of assassins being able to kill a goddess, it sounds a bit strange. I don't remember was she very weak? I would have thought that mortals stepping into a gods warren, to take it on in a fight, would be a very bad idea.
I mean normal Tiste Andii or apsalar, kill of Claws with ease.
