[Roland]

Dolorous Menhir said:

Proof that it was Binadas - conversation in BH. I forget if it was Icarium or Karsa's party of Edur, but it's stated that Tomad Sengar sent Binadas, on the Silanda, to look for his lost son. It's obvious this is Trull, though Fear remains a remote possibility, since the Edur probably consider him lost too.

And when Tomad sees the Silanda among the Malazan fleet he is crushed - he assumes his son, Binadas, has been killed by the Malazans, and so he has lost two children (Trull & Binadas). We know it was actually Karsa who did it, but that still doesn't change the fact that Binadas has bought the farm.

Which is a shame, I wanted to know more about him...

it is weird, if you think about it, we didn't meet Binadas the character until MT, yet we saw Binadas the corpse way back in DG. Just goes to show the scope and organisation that has gone into the series...

There is NO proof that the sorcerer was Binadas. We know nothing of the mission the Sylanda was sent on (even the rest of the Edur know nothing of it) and they seem to have quite a lot of warlocks. So I can't imagine why the hell would SE introduce a character like Binadas and then kill him without doing anything. No, the assumption of Tomad that his son is dead is just that - assumption. That's what I think at least...

[Roland]

Hetan said:

It's Binadas.. Tomad Sengar would not have reacted if it had been a random Edur sorcerer controlling the ship.
as for killing off characters, what books have you been reading? He's done it before..

This post has gone way off topic... Cutter's role will be in Darujhistan? Helping out the Torrud Cabal

No, what I meant is that this is in no way a proof that Binadas was still on the ship when Karsa... visited it. Besides, SE never kills main characters without giving them some action first. And with Binadas we've seen NOTHING.

Back on topic - I too think that Crocus will appear again in Darujistan, may be even in the next book. I sincerely doubt it will be confined to Lether. The Edur have grown WAY too expansionistic for the story not to wander off.

[Roland]

Hetan said:

Binadas was given command of the ship by Tomar Sengar, a mission into the Nascent, whose nature was to be kept secret from Rhulad. ie. to rescue Trull.
Do you really think he would have jumped ship?
the ship's commander was killed by Karsa... a sorcerer... ergo.. with Tomad's reaction.. it was Binadas.
The fact that we've seen nothing from Binadas says to me he's not a main character and never was intended to be.

Back to the topic... I'm wondering where Scillara is going to end up to be honest... Cotillion described her as 'special' and I'm curious about that.

That's exactly my point - Tomad's reaction is based on simply seeing the Sylanda. There could be a hundred different reasons for Binadas not to have been on the ship at the time Karsa found it. It was just drifting without direction if memory serves. Not that it's impossible, it just seems highly improbable.


As for Scilara, I sincerely hope she will NOT turn into Cutter's new love or something as cheesy. I mean, he still loves apsalar, she still loves him - it's all just a terrible misunderstanding, right? But I don't doubt she'll be a major part of the story. And really, don't we have enough stubborn chicks around? I never got to see the difference betwen her, pre-Sha'ik Felisin or Felisin Younger. They all had different issues but as characters were WAY too similar.

[Folken]

hez...back...*runs around screaming*

Further proof there was talk of Binadass controling the ship and someone mentioned that Tomad has just lost another son. Thus...Binadasss

[Folken]

We finally agree...I want him and Apsalar to get back together:( They kept me going in House of Chains:p Not to say it was boring...I just don't like Karsa you know

[Roland]

Jen said:

hez...back...*runs around screaming*

Further proof there was talk of Binadass controling the ship and someone mentioned that Tomad has just lost another son. Thus...Binadasss

Love you too :wave:

Meanwhile, all this talk in the "Tomad just saw the Sylanda" chapter is the interpretation of Twilight of what has happened. I don't argue Binadas was the son in question, I just think the sorcerer controlling the ship could have been someone else entirely. For all we know at some point before Karsa's arival, a flying manta could have dragged him off-board or something and his first officer-sorcerer could have been "promoted" to commander. I just have this feeling that if the Edur WAS Binadas, we'd know for certain. The way it was presented, there is too much "if"s and I still find the notion of one of the Sengars getting killed without so much as a last line ridiculous.

[Midnight]

GingerBreadMan said:

I don't see the similarity between the pairs to be honest.

Apsalar-Cotillion are both assassins, and obviously share a lot.

Kellanved-Cutter seem nothing alike, Cutter shows nothing like the intelligence Kellanved has nor his ambition and skill.

Comparing Cotillion to Apsalar is obvious, but Cutter and Kellanved are not at all alike.

It's not so much that the characters themselves are similar. Erikson seems to love partnerships, there are a bunch throughout the series, and as Apsalar's and Crokus' relationship seems to be failing in House of Chains their partnership is likened to Kellanved/Dancer. Crokus even thinks of himself as a companion (like Dancer) because a companion is needed. So Apsalar would be the more "Kellanvedish" character. I realize that has probably been discarded but it still sounded like a cool idea.

[Roland]

Hetan said:

You seriously think that Tomar would have allowed another sorcerer on that ship? On a secret mission for the Sengar's?
And you want to talk about stubborn chicks?.....

Yeah, I actually do. There seems to be an awful lot of sorcerers in the Edur. If they are anything like the Andii, that means practically EVERY Edur IS in some degree a sorcerer.

[Trotts]

I, too, am quite interested in how Scillera fits into the Apsalar/Crokus lovefest. It's blatantly obvious that Cutters is still madly in love with Apsalar, and I think tis pretty apparant she feels the same. By her own admission Scillera is really just tryin to take Cutters mind off of all the hardships hes undergone. My question is what happens when Cutter and Apsalar are reunited? I mean its possible that Scillera will get dropped off somewhere, but its also possible that Apsalar will see Cutter and Scillera together and will get pretty pissed off.

As for Cutters overall role, I think he prolly is destined for greatness in Darujistan. I think his current journey is for making allies, powerful powerful allies, to come to his aid when he needs it most. Hopefully when he returns to Darujistan he sheds his name. Cutter, gah come on, Crokus Younghand was a real name, Cutter......just lacks imagination.

[Dark Mac]

A better comparion would be Paran = Shadowthrone and Apsalar = The Rope. After their meeting in BH, I can definitely see them taking K + D's places at some point. After all, does anyone really see K + D remaining as Shadowthrone and The Rope at the end of the series?

It would also fit because Crokus will die a horrible death...I hope. His character change in book 4 was really awful.

[Trotts]

Paran = Shadowthorne?

Paran is a smart man, and he can craft plans without doubt, but as devious and crafty as Shadowthorne? And furthermore Paran is the Master of the Deck, wouldn't it be a conflict of interest for him to take any throne?

[drza44]

Re: Scillara/Crokus. I don't think that Scillara is taking it as light as she lets on. My impression is that she has definite feelings for Crokus, but that she tries to keep it light to avoid being hurt since he seems to be in love with someone else. And while currently Crokus still seems to see her as just a surrogate/sub for Apsalar, I wouldn't be surprised if as time goes by he comes to realize that his feelings for Scillara are more than he suspects. I still haven't gotten by the notion that the Crokus/Aps relationship may have been as much about teenage puppy love as it is about them being "soulmates" or some such.

And relating this back to the topic, I've said before that I could imagine Crokus becoming the next leader in Darujhistan, once all is said and done. And unless he begins to assume some sort of supernatural/ascendant type power like Apsalar or Paran have, it would seem to me that Scillara might make a better companion for him in that role than an ascendant assassin.

(By the way, all of this is a major departure for me because as I read the beginning of Bonehunters the idea of Cutter getting with either Felisin Younger or Scillara frankly irritated me. I'm not big on bait and switch while reading, and I was wrapped around the idea of him getting with Aps. It says a lot about Erikson's skill that he not only got me away from being irritated, but actually has me behind a concept that often can mess up my reading of a series).

[drza44]

re: Paran/Apsalar =?= Shadowthrone/Cotillion.

I've talked about this before elsewhere, but I like the idea enough to want to see it discussed again. SE has shown a major prevalence towards powerful characters being associated with a pair (i.e. Rake/Brood, Mappo/Icar, Whiskeyjack/Dujek, etc. etc.), and he has given a couple of templates for powerful Malazanite pairs that I could see Paran and Apsalar fitting into: Shadowthrone/Cotillion, and Quick Ben/Kalam.

In both cases, we have a powerful "mage" and and an uber-fighter as great allies. In the ST/Cot case, we also get the leader/assassin dynamic. Now, Paran isn't a mage in a traditional sense, but by the time he figures out all of his Master of the Deck skills I think he'll qualify as a major magical power. And with the way he seems to be developing since his field promotion to Fist, I could also see him fitting into the leader role. I could definitely see Paran/Aps evolving into this type of relationship if SE decides to put them in a similar location.

I dunno, it's possible that the Paran/Aps meeting in the Bonehunters was just a coincidence that SE decided to throw in on a whim, but it seemed to me that their meeting was a) unnecessary to Bonehunters (which would suggest it would have greater meaning going forward) and just crackled with possibilities.

Relating back to topic: a Paran/Aps relationship would clear Crokus to be able to more willingly move out of her wake. As it stands now, despite them being separated for a few months, I believe that if Cutter encountered Aps again now he'd willingly go back to following in her footsteps. And I just can't see her ultimate path being to stay in Darujhistan, which is where I think Cutter's destiny lies.

[Midnight]

Scillara is definetly an interesting element. I doubt that Cutter will give up Apsalar for her (at least I hope he doesn't). Perhaps Scillara will ultimately become Cutter or Apsalar's foe as she grows jealous of their relationship. She certainly seems the type of person the CG likes to use.

[fan_83]

roland: only one third of the edur can utilise magic to a degree that they can be called mage.. thats from mt..
also binadas was sent on a secret mission to save one of his brothers so its doubtflul that another mage would be present as its hard to be sure who is loyal