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Is it possible that both Quick Ben and Ganoes Paran Screwed up with the death of Poliel.
It sounded like she was trying to rid Burn of the crippled god through fever, but first Quick gets a jaghut to open his warren inside whatever place they were in MoI and then Paran kills her, seems a little short sighted to me.
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Death of Poliel
#2
Tes'thesula 
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Posted 05 April 2006 - 06:35 AM
i think that you are right in that she was trying to help burn, i just don't think that she gave a damn about civilization. Human's could have all died for all she seemed to care
#3
Morgoth
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Posted 05 April 2006 - 06:38 AM
depends.. Poliel wanted to pretty much eradicate humanity.. Stopping that isn't all too far sighted.. hmm, as it seems I was beaten to it; what Tes'thesula said
Take good care to keep relations civil
It's decent in the first of gentlemen
To speak friendly, Even to the devil
It's decent in the first of gentlemen
To speak friendly, Even to the devil
#4
Dragonstar
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Posted 05 April 2006 - 06:38 AM
And Also She Was In Cahoots With The Crippled God So She Got What She Deserved.
#5
fan_83
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Posted 05 April 2006 - 08:23 AM
errr dragonstar..... please don't make such blanket statements... she was in cahoots with the cg in order to save burn teh planet that shes occuping.. she plans to do so by eradicating humans which are the primary worshippers of the various gods fooling around with the power structure,, in order words shes planning to save hte plannet by causing hte death of the human race nad therefore teh stripping of power from the gods and tehrefor herself...
#6 Guest_FrenchyFan_*
Posted 05 April 2006 - 08:37 AM
It possible that Quick and Ganoes had made a mistake.
In facts, I believe that they have done a mistake, but not from their point of view :
What did they see ? Burn, afflicted by a fever that weaken her power.
Hundreds of thousands humans diying form the Poliel's Plague in the 7 Cities.
Poliel making an alliance with the Chained One.
with those facts, they have concluded (more Paran than Quick i believe) that her death was a good thing for humanity and Burn.
But from her point of view, what has happened ? She tried to save Burn, increasing her power by the way and got killed by humans because of it.
I believe that she was really intenting to save Burn, but that her plan was far more greater than what Ganoes and Quick saw.
It is for that, I believe that she thought that only humans put salvation only on themself.
She was trying to save Burn, but by a missunderstanding of Paran and Quick, she got killed.
In facts, I believe that they have done a mistake, but not from their point of view :
What did they see ? Burn, afflicted by a fever that weaken her power.
Hundreds of thousands humans diying form the Poliel's Plague in the 7 Cities.
Poliel making an alliance with the Chained One.
with those facts, they have concluded (more Paran than Quick i believe) that her death was a good thing for humanity and Burn.
But from her point of view, what has happened ? She tried to save Burn, increasing her power by the way and got killed by humans because of it.
I believe that she was really intenting to save Burn, but that her plan was far more greater than what Ganoes and Quick saw.
It is for that, I believe that she thought that only humans put salvation only on themself.
She was trying to save Burn, but by a missunderstanding of Paran and Quick, she got killed.
#7
Dravon
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Posted 05 April 2006 - 09:19 AM
I dont think Paran made a mistake at all and it is very possible that he did understand her plan. He did not kill her because she joined the CG he still hasnt chosen a side. He wacked her because she was messing with mortals...period.
#8
Morgoth
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Posted 05 April 2006 - 09:36 AM
what Dravon said. Paran is not very fond of schemes that use humans like pawns.. And he also could see no other possibility to save Dujek, and for that matter, 7-cities as a whole.
I doubt it would have matterd to him whether Poliel wanted to save burn or not, if he didn't already know.. Though, once more, SE manages to show that this conflict is not one of black and white. I'd still not put it past him to turn everything up side down and make us root for the CG in book 10
I doubt it would have matterd to him whether Poliel wanted to save burn or not, if he didn't already know.. Though, once more, SE manages to show that this conflict is not one of black and white. I'd still not put it past him to turn everything up side down and make us root for the CG in book 10
Take good care to keep relations civil
It's decent in the first of gentlemen
To speak friendly, Even to the devil
It's decent in the first of gentlemen
To speak friendly, Even to the devil
#9
Asandir
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Posted 05 April 2006 - 09:51 AM
Now Now. Never underestimate the convoluted mind of Quicker. Remember he's matched wits with the greatest ie. Shadowthrone. It may seem like he's messed up but he could be twenty steps ahead of all of us.
Thats my ten cents
Thats my ten cents
#10
Sir Thursday
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Posted 05 April 2006 - 05:09 PM
Can someone remind me: how exactly did Poliel plan on saving Burn, and why was it necessary to ally with the CG to be able to carry out her plan?
It has slipped my mind at the moment
It has slipped my mind at the moment
#11 Guest_Danyah_*
Posted 05 April 2006 - 10:06 PM
Anyway, the CG doesn't need humans to kill burn. He is chained to her on several warrens/planes/dimensions, and doesn't need any help from worshippers/humans to poison her. As we have seen with the Pannion Domin, he just wants to destroy the humans, to take away the worshippers of the other gods and in the end, destroy all the gods and civilizations. Poliel aims to save the planet by killing all the humans. I don' think it was mentioned that the cg wants to destroy the planet/the primal plane, so somehow their goals overlap. Burn is not the planet, burn is not the earth, she is not even an elder goddess.
#12 Guest_Nobody really ..._*
Posted 05 April 2006 - 11:57 PM
As I read it, poliel's answer to burn's problem was no different from caladan brood using his hammer to wake burn.
Now caladan came accross as a sweetie, willing nobly to carry the burden of not acting to save burn until he could find a way to save burn which didn't require mass slaughter of humanity.
Caladan felt guilty for not acting. But he knew that even though he was guilty he was still right.
Poliel acted without any such emotional constraint.
Now caladan came accross as a sweetie, willing nobly to carry the burden of not acting to save burn until he could find a way to save burn which didn't require mass slaughter of humanity.
Caladan felt guilty for not acting. But he knew that even though he was guilty he was still right.
Poliel acted without any such emotional constraint.
#13 Guest_Tiste Coolio_*
Posted 06 April 2006 - 12:12 AM
I somewhat agree with Nobody really's assessment - Poliel was acting from self-interest in order to help Burn without a thought towards its effects on humanity. However, was she attempting to free Burn in order to save her from the CG's poison or assist the CG by freeing him to roam the Warrens? Likewise, Poliel's attentions (plague) were supposedly creating an army for the CG, so wouldn't that indicate she was helping him out, as opposed to altruistically freeing Burn?
I don't think we have enough facts to effectively gauge her motivations. In typical SE fashion, I'm sure there's more details that will be revealed in the coming books. So we just have to wait. A year. Or two. Damn!
I don't think we have enough facts to effectively gauge her motivations. In typical SE fashion, I'm sure there's more details that will be revealed in the coming books. So we just have to wait. A year. Or two. Damn!
#14 Guest_Iapetus7_*
Posted 06 April 2006 - 03:24 AM
okay its taken a while, damn book is huge, but poliel quote "A broken goddess, who sought to heal burn. For such was the true purpose of fever, such was the cold arbiter of disease. Only humans, she reminded herself - her last thought - only humans center salvation soley upon themselves."
Okay so all that said I will reask the question. Since it seemed that poliels purpose in the pathenon was to assist Burn in riding herself of CG influence. This ofcourse leds to other questions such as why the hell was she aligned with CG? Will another god, say D'riss take over fever?
I agree with the statement comparing her with brood which in tern makes me question where was brood during this period. Also given that maybe quick is thinking further ahead, but given he seems rather stressed at the moment im thinking that his lpans are fraught. Likewise what of kruppe and by extension krull.
Now new idea, say this idea that hood may die and the CG is fashioning a new death, not sure of the basis of this but let me run with it for a sec. Suppose CG does replace hood in some form, does this change the fact that all the other gods seem to want him dead in particular the elder, which seems strange to me as they havent really been active intill recently. Also was hood a "temporary" god, purhaps he wants a different job?
And anybody who reads all that is a freak, i mean i may have used my entire store of words for like a month.
Okay so all that said I will reask the question. Since it seemed that poliels purpose in the pathenon was to assist Burn in riding herself of CG influence. This ofcourse leds to other questions such as why the hell was she aligned with CG? Will another god, say D'riss take over fever?
I agree with the statement comparing her with brood which in tern makes me question where was brood during this period. Also given that maybe quick is thinking further ahead, but given he seems rather stressed at the moment im thinking that his lpans are fraught. Likewise what of kruppe and by extension krull.
Now new idea, say this idea that hood may die and the CG is fashioning a new death, not sure of the basis of this but let me run with it for a sec. Suppose CG does replace hood in some form, does this change the fact that all the other gods seem to want him dead in particular the elder, which seems strange to me as they havent really been active intill recently. Also was hood a "temporary" god, purhaps he wants a different job?
And anybody who reads all that is a freak, i mean i may have used my entire store of words for like a month.
#15 Guest_Mule of Shadow_*
Posted 06 April 2006 - 03:36 AM
1. I don't think Poleil was completely destroyed? I'm sure it said something about how she was destroyed in this manifestation?
2. I suspect that SE will present the Crippled One and his cause (supported by Poleil and whoever) not as being simply bad and the rest good. I think it will be ambigious and will present a different ideology rather than necessarily just the other side of the coin. But lord's push to that.
2. I suspect that SE will present the Crippled One and his cause (supported by Poleil and whoever) not as being simply bad and the rest good. I think it will be ambigious and will present a different ideology rather than necessarily just the other side of the coin. But lord's push to that.
#16
Abyss
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Posted 06 April 2006 - 04:16 PM
My take was that Poliel was 'helping' the CG because to unchain him was to heal Burn.
Which is a fairly skewed position, but Poliel didn't really seem to be the most stable of the pantheon.
As to her being completely destroyed, it does seem that gaps in the pantheon may be filled, as with Felisin Y taking on the role of the Apocalypse goddess.
- Abyss, could say Poliel has gone to the dogs.
Which is a fairly skewed position, but Poliel didn't really seem to be the most stable of the pantheon.
As to her being completely destroyed, it does seem that gaps in the pantheon may be filled, as with Felisin Y taking on the role of the Apocalypse goddess.
- Abyss, could say Poliel has gone to the dogs.
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#17
Sir Thursday
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Posted 06 April 2006 - 04:29 PM
The ideas seems to be becoming popular that the gods exist on multiple planets...so if Poliel doesn't care about humanity then why is she trying to heal Burn? The death of Burn would surely not be the end of Poliel if she can simply move to another planet...unless Burn is present on all planets...
I suppose, as Abyss intimates, Poliel had a couple of screws loose...
Vox
I suppose, as Abyss intimates, Poliel had a couple of screws loose...
Vox
#18
Urko Crust
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Posted 07 April 2006 - 12:27 PM
I agree with abyss that poliel was trying to heal burn by unchaining the crippled god. i think paran knew this and thought OK she is trying to heal burn: good. She is doing it by destroying humanity and freeing the CG: not good. i could try and persuade her to find another way to heal burn, but she is consort in chains and healing burn is probably not her main goal. plus she likes to make love to her worshippers until they are disfigured, insane and dead. sod it i will kill her. Add up pros and cons and she is for it.
Iapetus are you by any chance named after a very very old ocean that no longer exists?
Iapetus are you by any chance named after a very very old ocean that no longer exists?
#19
Ivan the terrible
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Posted 08 April 2006 - 09:10 PM
The duel nature of Poliel i.e. Drek/Pliel Eldar and younger counterparts as discussed in another thread. In my opinion are the most vital revelation in the entire book.
"You understand then ... the truth beneath the veil, blood was their path so we chose to posion it" Here i think poleil must be referring to The eldar gods. That and Heboric' comments implying this war is merely to get rid of the Eldar gods. I wouldn't be suprised to see The younger gods attacking the eldar at all. Maybe even going so far as to team up with the chained one who knows .Might be fun turning everything on it's head incould see SE doing that.
"You understand then ... the truth beneath the veil, blood was their path so we chose to posion it" Here i think poleil must be referring to The eldar gods. That and Heboric' comments implying this war is merely to get rid of the Eldar gods. I wouldn't be suprised to see The younger gods attacking the eldar at all. Maybe even going so far as to team up with the chained one who knows .Might be fun turning everything on it's head incould see SE doing that.
#20
GingerBreadMan
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Posted 08 April 2006 - 11:39 PM
I wouldnt be surprised either if some of the younger Gods tried to Rebel, but could they really succeed? If elder gods span across the world, what chance do the younger gods have? Unless all they mean to do is kick the Elder Gods off of their planet which as we know is possible.
A question, is the K'rull we know THE Elder God, or simply the Malazan Worlds manifestation of K'rul. I dont see anyone with serious power and half a brain attempting to team up with the CG, but I wouldnt put it past some Gods/Ascendants to try and use him as a means of advancement with catastrophic results.
A question, is the K'rull we know THE Elder God, or simply the Malazan Worlds manifestation of K'rul. I dont see anyone with serious power and half a brain attempting to team up with the CG, but I wouldnt put it past some Gods/Ascendants to try and use him as a means of advancement with catastrophic results.
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