[caladanbrood]

So, in HoC, Onrack and Trull release two Deragoth from their statues inside a shattered piece of Kurald Emurlahn, do they not? And un-molested.

Yet, in Bonehunters, Paran and the Trygalle have to cross some possesed bridge in what Ganath says was the Jhagut afterlife, get chased by the reptile/bear thing, and then suddenly end up opposite the statues. Now, I definately don't remember them going through into a different warren, so how the hell did the Jaghut end up having a myth about Emurlahn? And why where Onrack and Trull left alone when they freed the first two?:confused:

[Tiger_sword]

caladanbrood said:

Now, I definately don't remember them going through into a different warren, so how the hell did the Jaghut end up having a myth about Emurlahn?

It seams to make sense that a shadowy realm be the realm of the dead. Prehaps the shattering of KE meant that the different pieces of the warren could interact with other warrens. If a Jaghut found a piece prehaps it gradually became somewhere between shadow and ice?

caladanbrood said:

And why where Onrack and Trull left alone when they freed the first two?:confused:

I think this had something to do with the fact that those two Deragoth had their shadows. In which case they had some sort of purpose?

[Morgoth]

weren't they released when their shadows were sent into darkness, but then trapped in the statues within the nascent?

[Imperial Historian]

I think this all has to do with the nature of shadow.

We know that in shadow there are a huge amount of chained creatures, but there are various hints that all of them weren't initially chained in the shadow warren, and that those chained in the shadow warren don't necessarily remain there.

Take Sorrit for example... initially killed in shadow, but then her body emerges in the middle of an omptose phellack ritual. So things in shadow don't necessarily remain there.

Now why can't this process work in reverse, things chained in the real world, the shadows of these chainings emerge in the various warrens of shadow. There seem to be places in the book where cotillion hints at this, eg the chained dragons, it is suggested that in anotherl world the binding around them is still strong, and the presence fo the dragons here is merely because the shadows of the dragons imprisonment come through into the shadow realm. I suspect that everythign in the real world has an analogue in the shadow realm, and the more important and powerful it is, the bigger the manisfestation, so all the hugely powerful creatures chained somewhere in the world emerge in the shadow realm, whilst the trees and such which cotillion cannot see are less improtant things shadowed into the shadow realm.

The deragoth's statues as highly important and very powerful would have a shadow in the shadow realm, whilst the original place the deragothwere imprisoned was in the jaghut realm of the dead (or the old realm of the dead, where the dead in the deragoths time would go), but the shadow of this reached into the nascent, especially when the spirits of the shdaow hounds went into them.

Theres a suggestion that the statues in the nascent aren't natural, neither the edur or the denizens of that realm made them.

Anyway thats my theory...

[Dinivan]

I like that theory it explains a lot

Allthough that would make shadow the most important warren, doesn't it? Everything seems to emerge there sometime. And then Kellanved is king there...But he can't control everything there, can he? But nonetheless, this gives him a great advantage...
But this leads to many complications, i think. For example, why is it so? I mean, the original shadow is shattered, and now the lesser / younger Shadow Realm does the job?
Or...has it to do with both Mother Dark and Father Ligth ( the prime entities/elementals) are involved in creating shadow, so its more powerful / potential?

[fan_83]

err guys.. my theory is this... they need to follow a path to the deragoths statue.. they do not know that the deragoth statue is locateed in the nascant.. therefore paran has no choice but to follow the trail from where he knows and thats through hoods realm.... as teh deragoth is an ancient beast and he assumed that htey were trapped not dead somewhere in hoods realm...

jsut my rambling

[Imperial Historian]

Not neceassarly the most important... anything that doesn't stay in the same place for a long time would not reach through to the shadow realm, and things would likely go to all the different fragents of emurlahn not just the one shadowthrone controls, all shadows ultimately go to one fo teh avrious shadow realms, but this process ins't constant.

the thoery that Paran went to the realm of the dead as this seemed teh msot likely place to find the deragoth also makes sense... but i needed to put my theory on shadow somewhere

[Tes'thesula]

no one said the bridge went anywhere...
(i think)
It's just a path, and in this case it led to the nascent. Paran wanted to follow a elder creature to the realm where it ended up after it 'died'. in this case the nascent...so thats where the brigde took him

[Dinivan]

Since this thread is named Deragoth and i didn't found the answer to my question with the search function as easily as i would have liked , i'll post it here:

Are there really only seven Deragoth (HoDs)?

I got somehow the impression that there were originally more of them, like, a whole race or something. And that there were seven of them more meaner/powerful/whatever or Dessimbelackis made them special in trying to put his pieces of soul in them or like. (not really sophisticated, my thoughts on this topic. But then there is not really much informaion on them). So i divided the Deragoth in (not so, but in comparision) simple Dogs and then on the other hand THE 7 deragoth (=Hounds of Darkness)

[Tes'thesula]

There was the impression that the Deragoth are the last of a species...a distinct possibility to be an adequate threat to the kccm

[Red_orbiT]

It seems the hounds of shadows are the shadows of the deragoth. When Paran freed two from dragnipur, they got returned to their rightful darkdogs.
It seems the rest of the five are chasing their shadows, who really doesnt wan't to be caught for some reason. They didn't manage to get them in bh...

[Dolorous Menhir]

But the Hounds of Shadow weren't all created at once, as they would have been if the Deragoth had "lost their shadows" all at the same time.

It's clearly stated that some of the Hounds are parents of others, that some are definitely older or younger. Plus we know there were once more than seven (Pallick). Makes it less likely they are somehow the repositories of the "shadows" of seven Deragoth.

The "shadows of the Deragoth" idea seems a bit weird.

[Red_orbiT]

Still, the deragoth spend all bh chasing the hounds of shadow, and the hounds of shadow are terrified.

[Illuyankas]

The fact Garath could be a Hound of Shadow but chose not to be, and the fact he isn't as strong as them, implies to me that accepting the position of a Hound grants you power, but the power is the Deragoth's - if say, Blind 'retired' and another Hound took her power, the Deragoth would be after that one instead. I expect we'll learn more later. Maybe. When the encyclopedia comes out.

[Loof]

Well to run with the shadows of Deragoth theory...
The hounds of shadow might be the shadow of the deragoth speicies. Do we ever hear if there is a connection between specific hounds of shadow and dark, that could counter this idea?

[Morgoth]

dunno.. but to the nascent part again. I believe it's been mentioned that 5 of the 7 holy protectors were killed, right? So if the 5 paran found were the dead ones, then the two onrack found were the ones still alive.

[Dinivan]

I'd agree with nobody.

The Deragoth were after Dejim i think and the HoS were simply carrying the last mouthful of Dejim to lure the Deragoth after them. And actually they dared to interfere and snatch said last piece of Dejim from the Deragoth who really wanted to get Dejim...I wouldn't do that if I deemed the deragoth more powerful and faster than myself...
I don't think the HoS were actually afraid of them...and they shouldn't be. They have certain conrol of warrens which the deragoth lacked up to this point so they'd always have a safe escape route;)