Help
I believe the Wickans have made the ultimate sacrifice enough times to merit more that such a flippant dismissal. They are a diminished tribe of people. After the Wickan Wars and Coltaine's mauling, how much space can they now range or occupy given their reduced numbers? Then again, I suppose they're just savages, good for nothing but fighting and dying when the Empire needs them to...no point trying to negotiate with savages of course.....
Laseen: An over-rated lier!
#41
Monoch Ochem 
- First Sword
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 689
- Joined: 26-July 04
Posted 23 March 2006 - 05:22 PM
"We greet you Jaghut."
#42
Tiger_sword
- First Sword
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 582
- Joined: 17-November 04
- Location:England
Posted 23 March 2006 - 07:56 PM
i suppose quite a few were also killed in the plague. I wonder, if the empire is looking for land to use for food, they want to use the Wickan lands. Why not use all the new space that has been created by the plague?
#43
Illuyankas
- Retro Classic
-
- Group: The Hateocracy of Truth
- Posts: 7,254
- Joined: 28-September 04
- Will cluck you up
Posted 23 March 2006 - 08:28 PM
The plague was a Seven Cities only thing, and the Wickan Plains are on Quon Tali - the plague never reached it before Paran's Puppies of Pandemonium poleaxed Poliel.
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
#45
Tiger_sword
- First Sword
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 582
- Joined: 17-November 04
- Location:England
Posted 24 March 2006 - 08:23 AM
Illuyankas said:
The plague was a Seven Cities only thing, and the Wickan Plains are on Quon Tali - the plague never reached it before Paran's Puppies of Pandemonium poleaxed Poliel.
D'oh! My mistake. Still they have all this new land why not use it. The only reason i can think of is that the Empress doesn't know that the plague has ended.
#46
Dolorous Menhir
- God
-
- Group: Wiki Contributor
- Posts: 4,550
- Joined: 31-January 06
Posted 24 March 2006 - 12:46 PM
7Cities has just undergone a really violent rebellion which saw all Empire forces outside Aren destroyed, and since then Tavore's army has been the Empress' only hold on the sub-continent. And it's not there any more.
Most people will never have even seen the Fourteenth, they may know the Whirlwind has failed but that doesn't mean they'll welcome back Malazans with open arms.
And on top of that, most of the continents populace is DEAD.
I don't think the plague is over, Poleil just isn't around to spread it any further. Remember the carrier (I forget the exact term) in Felisin's new camp, I don't think the death of Poleil has stopped his ability to spread the plague to others. Could be wrong there.
Nobody in 7Cities is in a state to farm and export food, and I doubt the Empire could mount a credible effort to get the area under control and productive again at this point. Besides, what Malazan citizens would want to go there? Everyone will know that Dujek fell to the disease, and that the last Empire armies on the continent were forced to flee.
I think it's safe to write 7Cities off for the remainder of the series.
Most people will never have even seen the Fourteenth, they may know the Whirlwind has failed but that doesn't mean they'll welcome back Malazans with open arms.
And on top of that, most of the continents populace is DEAD.
I don't think the plague is over, Poleil just isn't around to spread it any further. Remember the carrier (I forget the exact term) in Felisin's new camp, I don't think the death of Poleil has stopped his ability to spread the plague to others. Could be wrong there.
Nobody in 7Cities is in a state to farm and export food, and I doubt the Empire could mount a credible effort to get the area under control and productive again at this point. Besides, what Malazan citizens would want to go there? Everyone will know that Dujek fell to the disease, and that the last Empire armies on the continent were forced to flee.
I think it's safe to write 7Cities off for the remainder of the series.
#47
Orfantal
- First Sword
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 536
- Joined: 25-October 02
Posted 24 March 2006 - 12:56 PM
Dolorous Menhir said:
7Cities has just undergone a really violent rebellion which saw all Empire forces outside Aren destroyed, and since then Tavore's army has been the Empress' only hold on the sub-continent. And it's not there any more.
Most people will never have even seen the Fourteenth, they may know the Whirlwind has failed but that doesn't mean they'll welcome back Malazans with open arms.
And on top of that, most of the continents populace is DEAD.
I don't think the plague is over, Poleil just isn't around to spread it any further. Remember the carrier (I forget the exact term) in Felisin's new camp, I don't think the death of Poleil has stopped his ability to spread the plague to others. Could be wrong there.
Nobody in 7Cities is in a state to farm and export food, and I doubt the Empire could mount a credible effort to get the area under control and productive again at this point. Besides, what Malazan citizens would want to go there? Everyone will know that Dujek fell to the disease, and that the last Empire armies on the continent were forced to flee.
I think it's safe to write 7Cities off for the remainder of the series.
Most people will never have even seen the Fourteenth, they may know the Whirlwind has failed but that doesn't mean they'll welcome back Malazans with open arms.
And on top of that, most of the continents populace is DEAD.
I don't think the plague is over, Poleil just isn't around to spread it any further. Remember the carrier (I forget the exact term) in Felisin's new camp, I don't think the death of Poleil has stopped his ability to spread the plague to others. Could be wrong there.
Nobody in 7Cities is in a state to farm and export food, and I doubt the Empire could mount a credible effort to get the area under control and productive again at this point. Besides, what Malazan citizens would want to go there? Everyone will know that Dujek fell to the disease, and that the last Empire armies on the continent were forced to flee.
I think it's safe to write 7Cities off for the remainder of the series.
Well i think that it's hard to see 7 cities playing a major role in terms of armies and nations, although that area does seem to remain a lodestone for ascendants and the like. It is hard to see how the Empire is going to mount a serious campaign there for some time, but equally hard to see much in the way of armed forces left in the area to argue.
I had the feeling the pague would now dissipate, and i think it was specifically shown that the carrier's state was changing and he wasn't expected to be a carrier for much longer, wasn't Felisin eyeing him up as some form of consort?
The only other pont I'd make is that while the 14th was mainly raised in Quon Tali, I recall Dujek's Host being raised mostly in 7 Cities. Obviously a fair number of those original soldiers are now dead, replaced by recruits, but there may be some desire to go home at some point. Was it the 14th or the Host where it was said they were leaving never to return?
#50 Guest_Niko III_*
Posted 29 March 2006 - 01:00 PM
As mentioned, the Seven Cities has been reduced to the level of subsistence farming, with much of the manpower in the countryside gone, and the city populace facing starvation.
The deplacement from city to countryside will likely not take place before the famine has already decimated the cities. Bandits will probably raid the countryside for anything edible, making farming conditions even worse.
When the people in the cities are finally employed in agriculture, their numbers will have been so thouroughly thinned out that the agricultural output of the Seven Cities will have dropped significantly.
The deplacement from city to countryside will likely not take place before the famine has already decimated the cities. Bandits will probably raid the countryside for anything edible, making farming conditions even worse.
When the people in the cities are finally employed in agriculture, their numbers will have been so thouroughly thinned out that the agricultural output of the Seven Cities will have dropped significantly.
#51
Tiger_sword
- First Sword
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 582
- Joined: 17-November 04
- Location:England
Posted 29 March 2006 - 02:18 PM
Basically its a no go area for a good few years. Perfect place for the final showdown against the chained god!
#52
amirebram
- Sergeant
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 83
- Joined: 20-April 05
Posted 03 April 2006 - 07:58 AM
I believe the single most repelling characteristic about Laseen is that she has very little Loyalty (or Morals).
If she thinks that killing the Wickans, an Army, or some of the Old Guard will serve her political scheme then she does it. The same way she killed the Emperor and Dancer. The same way she started killing all those mages back in the days.
It isn't only that she is an Assasin. Dancer knows loyalty, and so does Kalam. Laseen has always been know/feared for her backstabbing, and that is what drives all the good people away from her.
>> Tavore knew that Laseen wanted help killing Rel and Dom, but what she couldn't live with was sacraficing the Wickans to do it.
It's the age old question, that would you kill an inocent child to save 1000 people? or 100,000? What if you were asked to sacrafice 400 of you loyal and worthy soldiers to (maybe) save a million people?
Laseen would kill anyone to get more.
If she thinks that killing the Wickans, an Army, or some of the Old Guard will serve her political scheme then she does it. The same way she killed the Emperor and Dancer. The same way she started killing all those mages back in the days.
It isn't only that she is an Assasin. Dancer knows loyalty, and so does Kalam. Laseen has always been know/feared for her backstabbing, and that is what drives all the good people away from her.
>> Tavore knew that Laseen wanted help killing Rel and Dom, but what she couldn't live with was sacraficing the Wickans to do it.
It's the age old question, that would you kill an inocent child to save 1000 people? or 100,000? What if you were asked to sacrafice 400 of you loyal and worthy soldiers to (maybe) save a million people?
Laseen would kill anyone to get more.
#53 Guest_Danyah_*
Posted 03 April 2006 - 11:01 AM
Laseen has IMO a policy of creating an enemy for the people (the nobles dhg;the wickans and the Khundryl tbh) thus unifying the rest of the people.
She knows about the betrayal of Rel and Dom, but Rel controls the claw and uses high ruse, no way she can stop them, but the army could. She maybe hoped the army would disembark and slay everything in the way. Remember she only brought nobles with her, one Keneb's rival? Maybe she somehow hoped to get rid of those. Rynal sure got the quarrel in the back. And Kalam had to decimate the claw, maybe pearl had to kill rel with them, dunno. Maybe pearl and Kalam had to be killed in the process, two dangerous assasins gone?
And maybe her people are so brainwashed by Rel they would revolt to her if she wouldn't let them have the wickans.
She knows about the betrayal of Rel and Dom, but Rel controls the claw and uses high ruse, no way she can stop them, but the army could. She maybe hoped the army would disembark and slay everything in the way. Remember she only brought nobles with her, one Keneb's rival? Maybe she somehow hoped to get rid of those. Rynal sure got the quarrel in the back. And Kalam had to decimate the claw, maybe pearl had to kill rel with them, dunno. Maybe pearl and Kalam had to be killed in the process, two dangerous assasins gone?
And maybe her people are so brainwashed by Rel they would revolt to her if she wouldn't let them have the wickans.
#55
graller
- Corporal
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 30
- Joined: 19-January 03
Posted 04 April 2006 - 12:20 PM
I don't buy the food excuse at all. The entire population of 7C is gone as well. There is no need to produce food for the locals either so why can't they ship whatever is there to Quon Tali? Also does this mean Genabackis produces no food either? Come on. She was manipulated by ST and Dancer to attack them and she is still being manipulated now by Rel and Korbolo Dom. She took her most loyal subject and her only loyal army and turned them away and in the process lost her power base completely. She is a failed empress. Did any of you note the headers in the quotes "Year of a Thousand Lies" and "The Last Year of Lassen's Reign"? She is done, stick a fork in her.
#56
Asandir
- Hermit
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 183
- Joined: 29-March 06
- Location:Dundee
-
Interests:Anime
Manga
Computer games and of course books. - Poof...I dissappeared again
Posted 04 April 2006 - 12:53 PM
Laseen problem is she lacks the moral capacity to trust n e one thus turning everyone against her.(plus the fact she's a power hungry backstabbin.......)
The empire is now on the verge og utter with collapse with mallick rel trying to lead the way. The wickans have nothing to worry about with the empires best armies under the control of the parans, they'd probably make mince meat out of whoever would come at them plus there's always the chance ammanas wud intervene. He does have a soft spot for them
The empire is now on the verge og utter with collapse with mallick rel trying to lead the way. The wickans have nothing to worry about with the empires best armies under the control of the parans, they'd probably make mince meat out of whoever would come at them plus there's always the chance ammanas wud intervene. He does have a soft spot for them
#58
presumingpete
- Corporal
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 52
- Joined: 06-April 06
Posted 06 April 2006 - 09:15 PM
i dont know why but i keep thinking she's on the side of the chained god. it would be stupid to think that someone with her power wouldnt be approached by him
#59 Guest_Danyah_*
Posted 06 April 2006 - 10:02 PM
Laseen is not deformed in any way. allmost all the subjects of the CG are deformed. Remember the Teblor Gods, Munug, Gethol, Tene Baralta, Rhulad. So I am not even sure if Mallick is in league with the CG. If the CG would take Laseen, he would first make her deformed is some way, by manipulating someone to attack her or something.
#60 Guest_Tiste Coolio_*
Posted 06 April 2006 - 10:10 PM
Given Laseen's rep as a machievellian ruler of the first order, how could she allow someone like Rel consolidate power so quickly? I'm sure she has some plan to get rid of him and Dom, but still, why allow it to happen in the first place? The whole Black Glove thing was odd.
I'm thinking she has some ulterior motive in allowing this to happen. Perhaps she has plans to allow Rel/Dom to do some necessary dirty work before throwing them to the mob...
I'm thinking she has some ulterior motive in allowing this to happen. Perhaps she has plans to allow Rel/Dom to do some necessary dirty work before throwing them to the mob...
