[Dinivan]

yo...but this dejim bit... its an old theme in the MBotF that all the demons of the old days that were awaken get whupped one after the other. its just in GotM, kruppe or krul said that in this new world the simple mortals can drown the gods. and it happens everytime...raest - incinerated by a sapper, deragoth - very short interlude indeed, dejim - yeah, etc dont remember ne1 else...

so my other thoughts about BH... i didnt like it (compared to the other malazans, its still MBotF after all)
at the end i got confused with everything...maybe a reread would improve my opinion. then there were several things that werent to my liking though...poor dujek, i thought Nok had said something about stay in deadhouse = longer life, imune to deseases...bah
then cutter sleeps with scillara...duh i hated it, i hope he comes together with apsalar
but what saddend me the most was the icarium storyline...this gral is EVIL, and the poor, poor mappo...
i liked the part about trull though, and then cottilion > all GO!!!
but most improved my opinion of tavore...her decision to have a game with fiddler really showed me that there is something between her ears

[Dolorous Menhir]

innokenti said:

Yeah, I found that pretty funny, considering T'rolbarahl's thoughts on all of it. It's especially ironic also that he was released for one job only... and failed even that. Bit of a dumb animal, eh?

Actually, I'm fairly sure the Dejim's mission was to kill Mappo, not Icarium, so Taralack Veed could take his place as companion. So he did succeed (though Mappo lived). It doesn't make any sense that the Nameless Ones freed him to kill Icarium, when they had Veed ready to prime Iccy for taking on Rhulad.

Does make you think again about how hardcore Mappo is though, that the Nameless Ones thought he need something on the level of a D'ivers T'rolbarahl to take him out.

[Dinivan]

Dolorous Menhir said:

Does make you think again about how hardcore Mappo is though, that the Nameless Ones thought he need something on the level of a D'ivers T'rolbarahl to take him out.

Well, Icarium and Mappo were together and no-one would expect that Icarium will watch while whoever the Nameless Ones sent is taking Mappo out. So the Nameless Ones needed some1 who is able to take Mappo down so fast that Icarium couldn't interfere...but agreed, Mappo is tough (i do love him), he survived the fall down that cliff, didn't he?

[Mezla PigDog]

I finished the book last night. Very enjoyable but it didn't leave me quite as satisfied as I would have liked. Possibly because of the long wait, my expectations had reached impossible proportions.

I can't decide if Laseen either knows everything that's going on and has some brilliant masterplan, or is totally oblivious to the CG threat and is just acting in the interests of the Empire. As I understand it, the reason for letting Dom and Rel turn the people against the Wickan's is to deflect their minds from looming starvation due to the mess in Seven Cities. The last thing she needs is a popular uprising with the loss of so many soldiers. She says as much that she needs the Wickan plains for their livestock and farmland. I'm leaning towards the idea that she's very blinkered and is only acting in her own Imperial interests.

Despite some disappointments, I enjoyed the book, especially the Y'Ghatan scrap and how the main characters from the 14th are becoming a new version of the Bridgeburners.

I love the way Erikson kills off some big names with a whimper. Dujek didn't even get to say a word and died of plague! I also loved that when the Edur fleet and the Malazan fleet squared up against each other, I genuinely didn't know what was going to happen. In most books of the genre, deep down you would know that the "goodies" will win through. I could see the 14th being obliterated. Good old Quick Ben and friends! Phew.

I hope Kalam is ok! The Azath houses seem to be collecting some powerful people for something but did Kalam get inside before he died?

Whiskeyjack is conspicuous in his silence. I'd like him to come back near the end and kick some CG ass but I suspect that Erikson will enjoy himself by keeping our favourite heroes dead and buried.

Karsa is brilliant. He used to get on my nerves but now he's like an action hero and just bulldozers through everything. I love him but I'd like to see him meet his match. It will be interesting to see how Rhulad fares against him and/or Icarium.

I think it's obvious that the Edur mage killed by Karsa on the Silanda was Binadas. Tomad Sengar obviously sent him to look for Trull and when he heard that Binadas must have failed, he mourned for him and Trull. Why would Binadas be looking for Fear in the Nascent? He wouldn't. Nice to think that the Edur still have some sense left somewhere!

I'd like to slap Feather Witch.

I'm not sure I enjoyed Quick Ben's lack of confidence! Was it a genuine lack of confidence when he was hiding in the hold of the ship? If not, then why was he lying to Kalam about it? I know Kalam doesn't trust him, despite their friendship. Yet if Tayschren is his shaved knuckle and he didn't use him against Icarium, then he can't be that desperate yet. So he's not scared then? It goes round and round and I got a bit tired of that. At least SE keeps us guessing. I like that QB had an evil streak when he was a kid. He seems to regret that now considering he saved his sister so I don't think his character has particularly changed in that aspect.

Erm, not sure where I'm going with this! When's the next book out?

[Dolorous Menhir]

Karsa Orlong = the Toblokai Arnie

"Witness!"

[vaiski]

Mezla PigDog said:

I'm not sure I enjoyed Quick Ben's lack of confidence! Was it a genuine lack of confidence when he was hiding in the hold?

I don't buy it as genuine, no matter how it seemed.
Remember MoI:
'I'd warned the Crippled God, you know. Told him I was stepping into his path.'

[innokenti]

Dolorous Menhir said:

Actually, I'm fairly sure the Dejim's mission was to kill Mappo, not Icarium, so Taralack Veed could take his place as companion. So he did succeed (though Mappo lived). It doesn't make any sense that the Nameless Ones freed him to kill Icarium, when they had Veed ready to prime Iccy for taking on Rhulad.

Does make you think again about how hardcore Mappo is though, that the Nameless Ones thought he need something on the level of a D'ivers T'rolbarahl to take him out.

I was talking about Mappo. He did essentially fail as he didn't do a thorough job. Sorry, should have made it clearer.

@Dinivan - I thought all the saddening and negative bits realled added to the story, in the sense that characters were in many cases very very fallible.

[fan_83]

errr of course qb is facing a lack of confidence... hes hiding in a warren near 12 sky keeps full of ten of thousands of short tails and their respective matrons who command enough magic to wipe him out...

who wouldn;t be newvous

[Imperial Historian]

Do the short tails have matrons?

i always got the impression that the short tails were much more individulaistic, tehy were reluctant to give up power to the long tail matrons.

[Dave]

Hetan said:

Not the Toblakai. And not the Enkharal. Its reptilian, two legged, with oversized, overlong arms, taloned. Short stubby tail…sounds like a KCCM short-tail.

Well, Hetan, an enkar'al is a reptile, and like I said, I was wondering if the reptilian soul inhabiting the Toblakai body might have caused said body to gain reptilian characteristics. However, I re-read that passage from HOC last night and found that Kalam was near G'Danisban, whilst Karsa was near Ugarat. So, problem solved, I was wrong - it was a KCNR.

This just begs the question - who trapped the KCNR there in the first place?

There's alot of stuff in TBH which seems to be set-up for explanation/further development down the line - the meteorite near Malaz city towards the end and all those other 'meteorites' which fell near Otataral Island. Whilst I loved this book, and am going to re-read it immediately, I'm left wanting RG NOW, damnit.

[Dave]

I assumed that Tavore had this information from the eres woman who had been 'possessing' or perhaps 'inhabiting' T'amber. I agree there doesn't seem to be a great deal of consistency with mysterious characters - in GOTM, hardly anyone seemed to know who Anomander Rake was, either...although this might be a GOTM-ism.

[Set'alahd Crool]

Tavore inherited her mother's visions(the visions Felesin mentions), so she knows what's going on. Sort of. That's what I thought, anyway.

[Arkmam]

Agrut said:

Something else: The front of the book and the map in the book do not fit

Yeah, now that you mention it...
I don't have the book with me, but it should be mirrored, right?

[Tes'thesula]

i got the impression that she was getting her info from T'amber, who being somewhat possesed by the spirit of a creature who can travel through time, would, have prescient knowledge...but thats just me...
on the characters, Tayschrenn; reading NoK really helps here, because the character matches up alot more...the quiet self confidence etc. i would understand those only having read GoTM for snippets on Tays being a bit wierded out.
Pearl always seemed to care about Lostara...it was never really stated, but those two weren't the sort to say anything...its SE's attempt at a kind of tragedy, both being alive, neither knowing, and one getting revenge for a non-existent crime...but dying. Not perfect, but poignent all the same

Felisen...hmm, came to terms with her imprisonment rather quckly, i would definately agree, perhaps the shock of her companions dying acted on her in that way...i don't know

Laseen, this is a controversial one, on a recent re-read (just finished today) i didn't really get the impression most seem to be getting. If you keep emotions out of it, then there is nothing wrong with Korbolo and Mallick rejoining the Empire. Tha plan is sound from a very cold-blooded point of view. It is only because we like and respect the Wickans and the burned tears, and coltaine and duiker that we rail at the Empress. She's still going to want to go through with the plan, she only wanted dom and rel out of the way, That would have been ideal...instead she will have to do it with them...and watch her back for the knife, but she is the ultimate claw...

Finally quick Ben...again on the reread, i took the impressions that the conversations with kalam were slightly sardonic in nature...yes he was worried, but mainly i think he was using the opportnity to plan and think...what else do you want him to be doing on a boat...maybe he doesn't like the sea? and for being tricked by shadowthrone...well if you will mess with the best...

just some thoughts