Throne of Shadow

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Throne of Shadow

#1

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 09:11 AM

so some of this belongs in the crazy theories thread, but some of this is fact.
Scabandari is confirmed as being originally Edur before he drank of Tiam's blood. He spilled draconean blood in the heart of Emurlahn when he killed Sorrit and thereby shattered the warren.

The three dragons were imprisoned by Rake to prevent them or one of them claiming the Throne of Shadow, and Ampelas is aspected to Emurlahn, so would appear to have a strong claim.

So perhaps Shadowthrone cannot occupy the real throne of shadow because of Rake? Edgewalkers pov from NoK implies that there is a reason for the throne remaining empty, and the dragons confirm that the andii are absolute in their insistence that the throne remains unclaimed.
Cotillion : "And what" he asked the dragons "so spurred their zeal?"
"Vengeance of course. And Anomandaris".

So vengeance for what? for being Edur?
Or for killing the dragon? for taking the throne?
that doesn't make a lot of sense because if he doesn't want an Edur on the throne, why not allow an eleint to occupy the throne and heal the warren, particularly one who is aspected to Emurlahn in the first place.
Or is it because of shattering the warren, thereby creating instability?

And there's that word vengeance again... the name of the sword Anomander created. Vengeance or Grief.. Scabandari's words about Andarist :- 'surrendered to a grief that would never heal... all unknowing that the hand that delivered that grief was mine'
So was Sorrit Andarists' paramour in the way that Silannah is to Rake? ok, ok.. so that's the bit that belongs in the crazy theories thread

Another thing ... what was the throne sensed by Telorast and Curdle.. in a realm that appeared to be occupied by Tiste Edur..with a huge domed palace.
'A most dreadful place' Telorast said
'But there was a throne,' Curdle cried, 'I sensed it, a most delicious throne'
Telorast snorted, ' Delicious? You have lost your mind, Naught but pain. Suffering. Affliction _'
Was this the Throne of Chains?

#2 Tes'thesula

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 10:06 AM

One thing...Are you sure that Scanbandari killed sorrit in Shadow that was the cause of the sundering, I thought it was him killing the noble families of the Edur, and thus becoming the only one who could lead them, becoming their champion....I was under the impression that sorrit was killed some other time

But otherwise...interesting, but more interesting is cotillion's comment, replying to "the true throne is not even in this fragment of Emurlahn.'
He says 'And is Ammanas?'
explains why he is so opaque...but perhaps shadowthrone has already claimed emurlahn?

#3

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 12:33 PM

He murdered the royal line of the Edur yes, to become their leader
But it was the spilling of draconean blood that caused the sundering... and she was killed within Emurlahn.. p.193-195 carries all that information.
As to when it happened...Mappo speculates that it could have been a long time ago.. "..how long ago, do yu think? Would we not have felt her death?"

#4 tiam

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 01:37 PM

well mappo is around 1000 years old and hes been travelling with icarium for around 800 years (DG i think). so in terms of recently i dunno

#5 fan_83

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 01:37 PM

hell no... scanbadari is not powerful enough to kill sorrit imho...

i think rake insists that emurhaln remains unoccupied to punish the edur for causing the eventual death of mother dark...

we don;t know if sorrit is male or female so we don;t know if its andarist paramour... and regarding the spilling of draconean blood... maybe its some other dragon

#6 tiam

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 01:44 PM

i dunno whether sorrit was andarsits companion. it seemed by the 3 shadow dragons that sillanah was an exception. something about 'ensnared by rakes charms''

#7

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 04:18 PM

fan_83 said:

Sorrit is female.. that's very clear
The Edur are involved.. and Scabs is the most powerful and a soletaken Eleint. I think he could quite easily have tricked, trapped and killed her.

the andarist bit, as I said was a real crazy theory

#8 Guest_Nobody really ..._*

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 05:23 PM

I like your theory Hetan.

I find the idea that Sorrit's death sundered KE very convincing.

I find the idea that Scabardi killed her interesting but less compelling, but it's never been explained quite why Killamandros was so angry at Scabardi: was it because he had killed sorrit or was it because of what he did to Silchas Ruin?

Isn't it more likely that KE was sundered after Scabardi's 'death'?

I can't support the notion that Sorrit was Darist's lover at all. The only evidence for your insane theory here my dear Hetan is that Sorrit was female. Darist never came accross to me as 'god's gift to women'

#9

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 05:39 PM

Emurlahn was sundered by Scabandari..before they arrived in the realm..
Sorrit's body is in a fragment of Emurlahn..
Kilmandaros... hmm... I think perhaps Scabs had done one to many mis-deeds...
slying the royal edur line, killing a dragon, sundering a warren... and finally the betrayal of the andii.. and I bet he stole apples as a child

re Andarist... yeah.. *grins* I like to throw a curve ball once in a while

#10 Imperial Historian

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 05:53 PM

Re: Rake's insistence that the throne of shadow remains empty

Rake's vengeance is against the Edur and Scabandari, after they killed his brother and kin, he doesn't want the warren of shadow repaired as then the Edur would be more powerful? So the home of the Edur will remain ever sundered and the andii will not permit the warren of shadow to regain its former power in vengeance against the Edur.

Scabs killing the Edur... I can see that he could have killed sorrit, he has the power, but I don't think he could have killed her and this fact remained unknown for over 300000 years, and considering the fact that this act sundered Emurlahn, surely someone like Icarium would be aware of this. No I suspect the death of sorrit was more recent, and possibly has something to do with the otatoral dragon.

How's this for a theory, persons unknown kill Sorrit, one of them drinks her blood, fouled by the otatoral spike, hence becomes the otatoral dragon. Osserc and Anomander find out, are not happy, and so Rake Osserc and his four soletaken andii go and imprison the otatoral dragon, in a very unpleasant way, simmilar to the way Sorrit was imprisoned when she died.

#11 vaiski

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Posted 06 March 2006 - 11:36 PM

fan_83 said:

hell no... scanbadari is not powerful enough to kill sorrit imho...

Rake could have killed those 3 dragons.. surely Scabby was powerful enough to kill one?

re: Rake's insistence
I did find that bit a bit strange too.. but Eloth did say that it was an over-reaction on his part. I wonder whether he has the same zeal anymore if Trull's daughter tries to sit on the Throne. But ofcourse Rake won't be the only one messing things up.

Edit: daughter even

.. I blame the 12-hr reading marathon that was Bonehunters.

#12 Jimmy

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 03:07 AM

Where has the name Sorrit come from? Or is it a spoiler?

#13 Jimmy

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 03:10 AM

Geez, look at that. I used to be a Fist?

I've been demoted.

Whiskeyjack was demoted, so that's not too much of a bad thing.

#14 Illuyankas

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 03:40 AM

@Jimmy - I think you missed the thread announcing The Bonehunters Forum is now for people who've read the book, and it doesn't need spoiler tags anymore. So unless you've read it, prepare to be spoiled.

Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.

#15

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 10:23 AM

vaiski said:

re: Rake's insistence
I did find that bit a bit strange too.. but Eloth did say that it was an over-reaction on his part. I wonder whether he has the same zeal anymore if Trull's son tries to sit on the Throne. But ofcourse Rake won't be the only one messing things up.

ooh! yeah.. that remind me.... do we all agree it is Kettle that has to sit on the Throne of Shadow to heal the warren?

#16 tiam

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 11:30 AM

why kettle? and who s trulls son. i need to reread it definitely

#17 doolally2au

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 03:05 PM

Hetan said:

ooh! yeah.. that remind me.... do we all agree it is Kettle that has to sit on the Throne of Shadow to heal the warren?

That's a mighty disturbing thought, Hetan, considering she has the soul of a Forkrul Assail! It seems as though she must be the one. Does Kettle have two souls within her - her original one and that of the FA? I can't remember if there is any reference to that in MT.

@Tiam. Vaiski meant Trull's daughter, and has since corrected that post. We all think that Kettle is the daughter of Trull and the Eresal.

Reintarnation: Coming back to life as a hillbilly

#18 vaiski

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 03:11 PM

Fanderay said:

It seems as though she must be the one. Does Kettle have two souls within her - her original one and that of the FA?

Quote

'So, how may souls are in me?'
'Two, sharing the flesh and bone of a child corpse.'

I'd imagine that ST might.. object to anyone attempting to claim the Throne.. let alone one with a FA soul.

#19 tiam

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 03:48 PM

yeh but could he stop kettle? with her new friend ruin

#20 vaiski

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Posted 07 March 2006 - 03:54 PM

Well in a direct confrontation solely by himself, no I dont thin'k so.. but it's ST, when has he ever done anything directly?
And who knows what Silchas wants, and whatever it is he'll do, it's likely to gather the attention of other Ascendants as well.. and besides, Throne of Shadow is already kinda popular erm, target for various ppl.