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So where does Rhulad stand with the crippled god, does he have a designated place in High House of Chains yet? Is he or will he be the cripple, the fool or the leper (or is the leper likely to be the slave master [can't remember the name] that Karsa ruined and took the hands and feet from who also becam a leper?). My bets are on him being the fool.
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Rhulad's place in High House of Chains
#2 Guest_malaz3_*
Posted 25 February 2006 - 11:12 AM
I was under the impression that he was the mortal sword. Doesnt it say so inhte appendix of MT?
#3
Dolorous Menhir 
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Posted 25 February 2006 - 11:27 AM
someone in MoI (I think it was K'rul in his speech to Lady Envy) refers to a Mortal Sword among the Edur who has died and returned "a hundred times".
after reading MT it's obvious he's referring to Rhulad.
though you could make a case for Rhulad being King given that he is an Emperor as well as a swordsman, in light of the confusion over Kallor's status (sometimes he's Reaver, sometimes King).
after reading MT it's obvious he's referring to Rhulad.
though you could make a case for Rhulad being King given that he is an Emperor as well as a swordsman, in light of the confusion over Kallor's status (sometimes he's Reaver, sometimes King).
#4 Guest_bumble_*
Posted 25 February 2006 - 02:55 PM
In MT there is only the Holds in the appendix, no Houses. The Mortal Sword/Knight is Toblakai/Karsa. But there is The King in Chains, which I asumed was the Crippled God, but I guess he could be the Cripple. The Consort is Poliel, Reaver is Kallor and the Seven of the Dead Fires are The Unbound T'lan Imass. All that is left is the Leper and the Fool. Isn't Kallor the High King of the dead continent/civilisation, which is was previous to the Crippled God being granted a House rather than Kallor being the King in Chains? At no point in any of the apendices does SE refer to him as The King in Chains.
#5 Guest_malaz3_*
Posted 25 February 2006 - 09:56 PM
I remember where I saw Rhulad as teh mortal sword - wikipedia:
High House Chains
* The King in Chains: the Crippled God (also called Lord in House of Chains)
* King: Kallor (in Memories of Ice)
* Mortal Sword: Rhulad Sengar
* Consort: Poliel?
* Reaver: (Kallor? in House of Chains)
* Knight: The Teblor Thelomen Toblakai Karsa Orlong
* The Seven of the Deadfires: The Unbound (now Six), T'lan Imass renegades.
* Cripple:
* Leper: Silgar, slavemaster - slain by Karsa Orlong in House of Chains
* Fool:
* Magi: Bidithal, High Mage with the Apocalypse, slain by Karsa Orlong
* Herald: Gethol (formerly Herald of Hood - see Memories of Ice)
Thats what wikipedia gives, though the views may be biased. I agree with it generally though - it makes sense to me, and I do think that Rhulad is the mortal sword. And I believe that the 'King in Chains' can only the the crippled god himself.
High House Chains
* The King in Chains: the Crippled God (also called Lord in House of Chains)
* King: Kallor (in Memories of Ice)
* Mortal Sword: Rhulad Sengar
* Consort: Poliel?
* Reaver: (Kallor? in House of Chains)
* Knight: The Teblor Thelomen Toblakai Karsa Orlong
* The Seven of the Deadfires: The Unbound (now Six), T'lan Imass renegades.
* Cripple:
* Leper: Silgar, slavemaster - slain by Karsa Orlong in House of Chains
* Fool:
* Magi: Bidithal, High Mage with the Apocalypse, slain by Karsa Orlong
* Herald: Gethol (formerly Herald of Hood - see Memories of Ice)
Thats what wikipedia gives, though the views may be biased. I agree with it generally though - it makes sense to me, and I do think that Rhulad is the mortal sword. And I believe that the 'King in Chains' can only the the crippled god himself.
#6
Illuyankas
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Posted 25 February 2006 - 09:58 PM
How about a Destriant and a Shield Anvil? Or would these roles be too much like coddling his subjects?
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
#7 Guest_Myrca_*
Posted 25 February 2006 - 11:10 PM
Hi, first post (small rocks only) Didnt the CG say at one point to Gethol tho that since he was bound he was independent of the house of chains, and if it wants to get anywhere better recruit some nasties? also whats diff between knight and mortal sword?
#8
Illuyankas
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Posted 26 February 2006 - 12:13 AM
Read through this thread for ideas about the difference between Knight and Mortal Sword - careful though, it's in the Bonehunters forum, so watch put for spoilers. Check pages 6 and 7, I believe.
http://www.malazanempire.com/forums/showth...p?t=4031&page=7
http://www.malazanempire.com/forums/showth...p?t=4031&page=7
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
#9
Serrat
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Posted 26 February 2006 - 03:52 AM
I'm responding with my book in the other room, so the ice beneath me is rather thin, I seem to recall someone telling Karsa something about him being the cg's knight and equating that with being his mortal sword. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think in this case the stations are both filled by Karsa.
Gonna grab my book now.
Gonna grab my book now.
#10
Morgoth
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Posted 28 February 2006 - 12:53 PM
Always seen Rhulad as the perfect Fool... but that's just me
The CG's talk with Kallor gave me the impression the CG would not occupy any of the positions and that Kallor would be king.. However a comment, in HoC i think, stated that the HoC reaver was an ancient warrior in a distant land, which would logically be Kallor..
And we know already that a house can have both a Mortal Sword and a Knight. K'rul's comment pretty much excludes Karsa from the position of Mortal Sword, and he is, I believe, already referd to as the Knight of Chains..
Rhulad, tho a good fool would surely be Mortal Sword.. K'rul generally seems to know his stuff
*shrugs*
[Edit] Wikipedia for this kind of info is seldom the best source. I'd suggest using the search function on this forum instead. I'd be willing to wager that the most knowledgeable 'malazanites' frequent this forum
The CG's talk with Kallor gave me the impression the CG would not occupy any of the positions and that Kallor would be king.. However a comment, in HoC i think, stated that the HoC reaver was an ancient warrior in a distant land, which would logically be Kallor..
And we know already that a house can have both a Mortal Sword and a Knight. K'rul's comment pretty much excludes Karsa from the position of Mortal Sword, and he is, I believe, already referd to as the Knight of Chains..
Rhulad, tho a good fool would surely be Mortal Sword.. K'rul generally seems to know his stuff
*shrugs*
[Edit] Wikipedia for this kind of info is seldom the best source. I'd suggest using the search function on this forum instead. I'd be willing to wager that the most knowledgeable 'malazanites' frequent this forum
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#11
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 28 February 2006 - 07:48 PM
I looked through MoI, it's not actually during K'rul's chat with Envy that the Mortal Sword is mentioned. it's when Quick Ben talks to Hood shortly after his encounter with Bauchelain and Korbal Broach. (p 776).
Hood's words: "whilst the House [of Chains] has found, in a distant land, its Mortal Sword."
you could make a case for that being Karsa (in Seven Cities, which isn't that distant from Genabackis) or Rhulad (unknown whereabouts at that time, but presumably Lether at least is nowhere near Genabackis). note this passage is also the source of the "ancient warrior seeks to become Reaver" quote. I'm not absolutely convinced that's Kallor though, there are plenty of really old fighters kicking around the planet. he is the most obvious candidate.
can't find the "hundred deaths" comment though. I was sure the words were K'rul's but not in the scenes I could find (chat with Lady Envy, unmasking at warchiefs meeting).
Hood's words: "whilst the House [of Chains] has found, in a distant land, its Mortal Sword."
you could make a case for that being Karsa (in Seven Cities, which isn't that distant from Genabackis) or Rhulad (unknown whereabouts at that time, but presumably Lether at least is nowhere near Genabackis). note this passage is also the source of the "ancient warrior seeks to become Reaver" quote. I'm not absolutely convinced that's Kallor though, there are plenty of really old fighters kicking around the planet. he is the most obvious candidate.
can't find the "hundred deaths" comment though. I was sure the words were K'rul's but not in the scenes I could find (chat with Lady Envy, unmasking at warchiefs meeting).
#12
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Posted 28 February 2006 - 08:12 PM
The "hundred deaths" comment is from Paran's conversation with the throne of shadows whilst first using his powers to look for rake through the deck.
Karsa could very well be the mortal sword... the distance between seven cities and genabackis is mentioned as between 3000 and 1600 leagues, which is a significant distance.
Saying that though I've always had Rhulad down as Mortal Sword and Karsa as the Fool, but seeing as how Karsa is the knight the position of Fool must be held by Rhulad, who else has "dread power"?
Karsa could very well be the mortal sword... the distance between seven cities and genabackis is mentioned as between 3000 and 1600 leagues, which is a significant distance.
Saying that though I've always had Rhulad down as Mortal Sword and Karsa as the Fool, but seeing as how Karsa is the knight the position of Fool must be held by Rhulad, who else has "dread power"?
#13
zeeny
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Posted 28 February 2006 - 10:30 PM
Quote
I seem to recall someone telling Karsa something about him being the cg's knight and equating that with being his mortal sword.
This is a mistake in HoC, IIRC. The 7 refer to Karsa as being CG's Mortal Sword(and that's what they tell him...). In the end of the book, the wording has changed and he's now the Knight of Chains.
#15
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 01 March 2006 - 12:36 PM
why can't Karsa be the Knight and Rhulad be the Mortal Sword? is there any quote that conclusively says that isn't the case? we know Karsa is the Knight, and we know there a Mortal Sword exists, and that Rhulad must have some high position in the HoC. plus he's a MORTAL who keeps on dying and coming back with a divine SWORD stuck in his hands.
what's this "dread power" business with the Fool?
what's this "dread power" business with the Fool?
#16
tiam
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Posted 01 March 2006 - 01:55 PM
Dolorous Menhir said:
I looked through MoI, it's not actually during K'rul's chat with Envy that the Mortal Sword is mentioned. it's when Quick Ben talks to Hood shortly after his encounter with Bauchelain and Korbal Broach. (p 776).
Hood's words: "whilst the House [of Chains] has found, in a distant land, its Mortal Sword."
you could make a case for that being Karsa (in Seven Cities, which isn't that distant from Genabackis) or Rhulad (unknown whereabouts at that time, but presumably Lether at least is nowhere near Genabackis). note this passage is also the source of the "ancient warrior seeks to become Reaver" quote. I'm not absolutely convinced that's Kallor though, there are plenty of really old fighters kicking around the planet. he is the most obvious candidate.
can't find the "hundred deaths" comment though. I was sure the words were K'rul's but not in the scenes I could find (chat with Lady Envy, unmasking at warchiefs meeting).
Hood's words: "whilst the House [of Chains] has found, in a distant land, its Mortal Sword."
you could make a case for that being Karsa (in Seven Cities, which isn't that distant from Genabackis) or Rhulad (unknown whereabouts at that time, but presumably Lether at least is nowhere near Genabackis). note this passage is also the source of the "ancient warrior seeks to become Reaver" quote. I'm not absolutely convinced that's Kallor though, there are plenty of really old fighters kicking around the planet. he is the most obvious candidate.
can't find the "hundred deaths" comment though. I was sure the words were K'rul's but not in the scenes I could find (chat with Lady Envy, unmasking at warchiefs meeting).
Also i always assumed that rhulad for the mortal sword for this reason.
Hood is the god of death. Hes recognised as an old god and is every where. except lether. Therefore lether is the distant land. As hood would be in 7c as we know from DG. therefore the only place that hoods not in is lether therefore thats the distatnt land
#17
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Posted 01 March 2006 - 06:50 PM
tiam said:
Also i always assumed that rhulad for the mortal sword for this reason.
Hood is the god of death. Hes recognised as an old god and is every where. except lether. Therefore lether is the distant land. As hood would be in 7c as we know from DG. therefore the only place that hoods not in is lether therefore thats the distatnt land
Hood is the god of death. Hes recognised as an old god and is every where. except lether. Therefore lether is the distant land. As hood would be in 7c as we know from DG. therefore the only place that hoods not in is lether therefore thats the distatnt land
Heh, that's a shrewd argument indeed.. It might be that Hood just makes the statement with Paran's perspective in mind, but then he might not.
In addition, SE has stated that there can be both mortal sword and knight in a house. I am unwilling to consider Karsa to be... mortal. He is at least very close to ascension. Rhulad on the other hand, as stated above, is mortal and so fits.
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