[Maark Abbott]

I suppose that if brevity appeals to the Unready and masterworks like Kharkanas are dropped to appease such slavering masses with what then amounts to the fantasy equivalent of Eastenders, it says more for the state of readers than anything *insert a dramatic swoon here*. The Path trilogy are, so far, incredibly average (at best), and most of the time it felt like things that needed a longer telling were being rushed and glossed over.

This is how you become Tiste Andii, languishing in languidity for aeons. Make books thicc again. I'm quite serious when I say that a book that lacks thickness will actually put me off. If the content is good, I feel screwed over by the fact there isn't much of it. When have you ever known a lawyer to like brevity in things?

Also Worry I'll fucking suplex the dick out of you if you mention that turgidity again. I'll do it. Don't even test me. However you are right in the post before, gimme some of that sweet, sweet pathos. Flesh it out a bit. I don't want me no frying steak, I want a nice, hearty rump to sink my teeth into.

EDIT: why did I call Worry 'Sorry'?

This post has been edited by Maark Abbott: 11 May 2018 - 06:04 AM

[Maark Abbott]

Actually here's a good example of what I mean.

Let's take Bakker, my boi, and his second book in PON. (way way way)

The first book had a sublime balance (I'd argue to the death that TUC did as well). It was the right length, the right amount of detail, just perfect to me. Then the second book was notably narrower... But also had a whopping great glossary at the end.

Now, don't get me wrong, the history of Earhole is fascinating and all... But having half of a novel's length as glossary left me feeling kind of cheated as a reader.

[Macros]

Sometimes there is beauty in brevity

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

I fall somewhere in the middle with this. I've definitely read books where I felt like there was more to be explored (and that the overall story would have benefited from such), but on the other hand I've also read things where I just wished the author would shut up about the exact quality of fog on the river (yes, Dickens, you) and get on with the plot.

As to ICE specifically, I enjoyed Dancer's Lament and have never fully gotten on with his Novels of the Malazan Empire series - Night of Knives aside, the rest were patchy (although I haven't read Assail yet) so I have to agree that brevity suits his writing style, whereas the sweeping epics and pondering suit SE.

I've also never got on board with the butthurt about the third Kharkanas being delayed because of poor sales of the first two - or the comparison made to Path selling well. That's not ICE's fault. Sure, it's a shame, I was looking forward to Walk in Shadow to get the conclusion to the story. Am I going to sit on the internet declaiming that everyone who didn't buy/didn't get along with Forge or Fall are the cripplingly stupid masses and the reason why we all can't have nice things? No.

TRB - Mortal Sword of Can't We All Just Play Nicely?

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 11 May 2018 - 06:54 AM

[Maark Abbott]

Macros, on 11 May 2018 - 06:40 AM, said:

Sometimes there is beauty in brevity

Anything beginning with Bre- is generally A Bad Thing. See: Brexit, Br'er Bear. Notable exception being Brewing.

Minimalism has never been my ytse jam.

[Gorefest]

Dude. Don't diss breakfast. Most important meal of the day. Though i hardly ever have it.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 11 May 2018 - 07:23 AM

[Maark Abbott]

Gorefest, on 11 May 2018 - 07:23 AM, said:

Dude. Don't diss breakfast. Most important meal of the day. Though i hardly ever have it.

I accept my error in this particular matter. Gomenasai, my local sir.

Spoons brekkie at 8am with a pint is always ooft.

[Yllana]

I'm more of the lunch faction, but whatever.
I think I get where Maark is coming from.
In my opinion, while the PtA novels are kind of entertaining when you read them for the first time, they don't leave much of an impact. There are revelations about how the old guard met, but for me, they are written in a way that just doesn't leave much of a lasting impression. It might be because of the writing style and the length of the books. There is a lot of action, but not really much insight into the characters' motivations etc. It feels incredibly superficial, imo. (And Dancer feels out of character *grumble*)
That said, I still think the PtA novels are better than ICE's earlier books. While they are not horribly deep, they are fast-paced, coherent and on occasion very funny. ICE definitely is better at writing less complex, shorter books than at emulating Erikson's style.
So I guess in general I prefer longer books (say 500 pages minimum), because you have more space to explore a complex story in detail, but they have to be written well. Lenght just for lenght's sake does not a good book make.

[Abyss]

Luv2B_Sassy, on 10 May 2018 - 10:35 PM, said:

HEY. I WAS WONDERING IF ANY OF YOU HAVE READ BRANDON SANDERSON'S THE WAY OF KINGS, AND IF YOU HAVE ANY OPINIONS ABOUT IT?

Abyss, on 11 May 2018 - 02:38 AM, said:

Yes. It was much much better than TIGANA.

Briar King, on 11 May 2018 - 02:44 AM, said:

What language is that your typing in? I can't understand you.

Macros, on 11 May 2018 - 03:19 AM, said:

Saying it's better than Tigana is like saying the sinking of the Lusitania is better than the sinking of the Titanic.

The food was way better on the Titanic.

[Macros]

There's 46 frigging books in the Horus Heresy series.

I thought I was getting somewhere finishing book 7 (legion) there.

Oh well

Onto Battle for the cat overlord Abyss

This post has been edited by Macros: 11 May 2018 - 02:28 PM

[Gorefest]

Maark Abbott, on 11 May 2018 - 07:24 AM, said:

Gorefest, on 11 May 2018 - 07:23 AM, said:

Dude. Don't diss breakfast. Most important meal of the day. Though i hardly ever have it.

I accept my error in this particular matter. Gomenasai, my local sir.

Spoons brekkie at 8am with a pint is always ooft.

Fagin's on Broad Lane used to (may still) do awesome brekkies.

[QuickTidal]

Macros, on 11 May 2018 - 02:27 PM, said:

There's 46 frigging books in the Horus Heresy series.

I thought I was getting somewhere finishing book 7 (legion) there.

Oh well

Onto Battle for the cat overlord Abyss

I'm on about Book 5 or 6 currently. Somewhere there is a list of the ones that are "must reads" and the rest of fluff. Pretty much Abnett, and MacNeil stuff is all great form what I've heard....and then there are scattered volumes that are worth it.

No way am I reading 47 books about this.

[Andorion]

Maark Abbott, on 11 May 2018 - 05:59 AM, said:

Actually here's a good example of what I mean.

Let's take Bakker, my boi, and his second book in PON. (way way way)

The first book had a sublime balance (I'd argue to the death that TUC did as well). It was the right length, the right amount of detail, just perfect to me. Then the second book was notably narrower... But also had a whopping great glossary at the end.

Now, don't get me wrong, the history of Earhole is fascinating and all... But having half of a novel's length as glossary left me feeling kind of cheated as a reader.

Wait... are you criticising The Warrior Prophet? Because that is the best book Bakker has ever written.

[End of Disc One]

Andorion, on 11 May 2018 - 04:12 PM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 11 May 2018 - 05:59 AM, said:

Actually here's a good example of what I mean.

Let's take Bakker, my boi, and his second book in PON. (way way way)

The first book had a sublime balance (I'd argue to the death that TUC did as well). It was the right length, the right amount of detail, just perfect to me. Then the second book was notably narrower... But also had a whopping great glossary at the end.

Now, don't get me wrong, the history of Earhole is fascinating and all... But having half of a novel's length as glossary left me feeling kind of cheated as a reader.

Wait... are you criticising The Warrior Prophet? Because that is the best book Bakker has ever written.

I think he mixed up books 2 and 3. Book 2 I'm pretty sure is longer than 1. Book 3 is shorter and has the long glossary.

[Maark Abbott]

End of Disc One, on 11 May 2018 - 04:14 PM, said:

Andorion, on 11 May 2018 - 04:12 PM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 11 May 2018 - 05:59 AM, said:

Actually here's a good example of what I mean.

Let's take Bakker, my boi, and his second book in PON. (way way way)

The first book had a sublime balance (I'd argue to the death that TUC did as well). It was the right length, the right amount of detail, just perfect to me. Then the second book was notably narrower... But also had a whopping great glossary at the end.

Now, don't get me wrong, the history of Earhole is fascinating and all... But having half of a novel's length as glossary left me feeling kind of cheated as a reader.

Wait... are you criticising The Warrior Prophet? Because that is the best book Bakker has ever written.

I think he mixed up books 2 and 3. Book 2 I'm pretty sure is longer than 1. Book 3 is shorter and has the long glossary.

I thought it was the second. If this is incorrect then it's my bad. I was working from 6am so pretty bleary. Either way it was a gip.

Also TUC was easily the best he's done. Aside from the very weird bit right at the end, perfect. The length alone bespoke of a most Ready alacrity.

[Mentalist]

But... TUC also included a lengthy glossary!

And in any case, Bakker was nowhere as bad as GRRM's genealogy trees. AFFC was egregiously bad, it took up like 15% of the pages in the hardcover.

[amphibian]

QuickTidal, on 11 May 2018 - 03:26 PM, said:

Macros, on 11 May 2018 - 02:27 PM, said:

There's 46 frigging books in the Horus Heresy series.

I thought I was getting somewhere finishing book 7 (legion) there.

Oh well

Onto Battle for the cat overlord Abyss

I'm on about Book 5 or 6 currently. Somewhere there is a list of the ones that are "must reads" and the rest of fluff. Pretty much Abnett, and MacNeil stuff is all great form what I've heard....and then there are scattered volumes that are worth it.

No way am I reading 47 books about this.

I decided to slam through maybe 15 to get a sense of which authors were good and then I only read books by them or unknowns.

Abnett, MacNeil, Kymes, Thorpe, and Wraight are the authors I chose to read.

[Slow Ben]

Maark Abbott, on 11 May 2018 - 07:24 AM, said:

Gorefest, on 11 May 2018 - 07:23 AM, said:

Dude. Don't diss breakfast. Most important meal of the day. Though i hardly ever have it.

I accept my error in this particular matter. Gomenasai, my local sir.

Spoons brekkie at 8am with a pint is always ooft.

Breasts, Brewskis?



Anyway. I could care less about the length of a book, as long as it feels like the right length after i've read it. And the Path books feel perfect to me. As did Eriksons monsters.

[Macros]

amphibian, on 11 May 2018 - 07:07 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 11 May 2018 - 03:26 PM, said:

Macros, on 11 May 2018 - 02:27 PM, said:

There's 46 frigging books in the Horus Heresy series.

I thought I was getting somewhere finishing book 7 (legion) there.

Oh well

Onto Battle for the cat overlord Abyss

I'm on about Book 5 or 6 currently. Somewhere there is a list of the ones that are "must reads" and the rest of fluff. Pretty much Abnett, and MacNeil stuff is all great form what I've heard....and then there are scattered volumes that are worth it.

No way am I reading 47 books about this.

I decided to slam through maybe 15 to get a sense of which authors were good and then I only read books by them or unknowns.

Abnett, MacNeil, Kymes, Thorpe, and Wraight are the authors I chose to read.

I haven't come across any real stinkers yet, but quality definitely varies.

Arguably it could be down to preference of what I want to read about, I found the book about the Dark Angels inception slightly tedious

[Maark Abbott]

Mentalist, on 11 May 2018 - 07:03 PM, said:

But... TUC also included a lengthy glossary!

And in any case, Bakker was nowhere as bad as GRRM's genealogy trees. AFFC was egregiously bad, it took up like 15% of the pages in the hardcover.

Whilst this is true, the glossary isn't half the book's total size. It's maybe 1/9th at largest.

So far the most alacritous length with the most Ready pathos has been the middle Crown of Stars books.