[Whisperzzzzzzz]

Finishing up A Closed And Common Orbit. While I was initially disappointed that I wasn't going to get more Wayfarer and crew in this book, I quickly overcame that once I got to know the mew cast.

Pepper's backstory and Sidra's ongoing struggle to discover and define herself are both extremely compelling narratives. When filtered through Chambers' tight, empathetic, and slightly quirky writing, these characters shine with a nacreous iridescence.

This post has been edited by Whisperzzzzzzz: 06 April 2018 - 08:38 PM

[Puck]

 QuickTidal, on 06 April 2018 - 04:00 PM, said:

 Andorion, on 06 April 2018 - 03:58 PM, said:

 Bachelorluver, on 06 April 2018 - 04:07 AM, said:

Urgh I completely forgot how fucked up my copy of this book is. The print on some pages is eaten into the binding so I had to guess what was written on several sentences multiple times per page sometimes. I guess it straightens up as I never bought a 2nd copy. Speaking of that I really like the latest edition covers of 1-6.

This is one series I don't think I will be ever able to read. Fitz just isn't my sort of protagonist - he is just a bit too stupid and incompetent.

Him constantly effing up and making poor decisions is part of his character growth. The second trilogy gives him more hindsight-based intelligence.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but what character growth? I'm asking genuinely and am looking for specific examples here, because as far as I remember Fitz is the only character who does not grow throughout the series (admittedly, I haven't read the last trilogy, but from what I hear about it it's just same old, same old). I mean, I get it, he's had a shitty life, but he's not even trying to get better even when the opportunity is presented to him on a silver plate. I know some people find that realistic and stuff, but realistic does not equal character growth. Again, examples? I genuinely like the rest of the series, but Fitz is a big downside of it.

Anyway, am about to start The Court of Broken Knives by Anna Smith Spark.

[Salt-Man Z]

 Whisperzzzzzzz, on 06 April 2018 - 08:38 PM, said:

Finishing up A Closed And Common Orbit. While I was initially disappointed that I wasn't going to get more Wayfarer and crew in this book, I quickly overcame that once I got to know the mew cast.

Pepper's backstory and Sidra's ongoing struggle to discover and define herself are both extremely compelling narratives. When filtered through Chambers' tight, empathetic, and slightly quirky writing, these characters shine with a nacreous iridescence.

Pretty much exactly my thoughts. +1

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

 Whisperzzzzzzz, on 06 April 2018 - 08:38 PM, said:

Finishing up A Closed And Common Orbit. While I was initially disappointed that I wasn't going to get more Wayfarer and crew in this book, I quickly overcame that once I got to know the mew cast.

Pepper's backstory and Sidra's ongoing struggle to discover and define herself are both extremely compelling narratives. When filtered through Chambers' tight, empathetic, and slightly quirky writing, these characters shine with a nacreous iridescence.

Just finished and I'm crying. Chambers is a talented storyteller.

[Andorion]

 QuickTidal, on 06 April 2018 - 04:00 PM, said:

 Andorion, on 06 April 2018 - 03:58 PM, said:

 Bachelorluver, on 06 April 2018 - 04:07 AM, said:

Urgh I completely forgot how fucked up my copy of this book is. The print on some pages is eaten into the binding so I had to guess what was written on several sentences multiple times per page sometimes. I guess it straightens up as I never bought a 2nd copy. Speaking of that I really like the latest edition covers of 1-6.

This is one series I don't think I will be ever able to read. Fitz just isn't my sort of protagonist - he is just a bit too stupid and incompetent.

Him constantly effing up and making poor decisions is part of his character growth. The second trilogy gives him more hindsight-based intelligence.

There is my problem. I can take a main protagonist constantly being stupid and not learning anything for one book, but three? I mean what incentive would I as a reader have to pick up any books after that?

And its not just Fitz. In the first trilogy, practically any good guy was not acting sensibly either through wilful stupidity, or due to various constraints, while the villain, was just parading about and he wasn't even that smart!

Spoiler

I mean what is the point of having assassins, if you don't use them to assassinate troublemakers?

 Bachelorluver, on 06 April 2018 - 04:58 PM, said:

Have you read any of them Ando?

I read the first 2 Assassin's apprentice and gave up about 20% into the third one.

 Puck, on 06 April 2018 - 09:27 PM, said:

 QuickTidal, on 06 April 2018 - 04:00 PM, said:

 Andorion, on 06 April 2018 - 03:58 PM, said:

 Bachelorluver, on 06 April 2018 - 04:07 AM, said:

Urgh I completely forgot how fucked up my copy of this book is. The print on some pages is eaten into the binding so I had to guess what was written on several sentences multiple times per page sometimes. I guess it straightens up as I never bought a 2nd copy. Speaking of that I really like the latest edition covers of 1-6.

This is one series I don't think I will be ever able to read. Fitz just isn't my sort of protagonist - he is just a bit too stupid and incompetent.

Him constantly effing up and making poor decisions is part of his character growth. The second trilogy gives him more hindsight-based intelligence.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but what character growth? I'm asking genuinely and am looking for specific examples here, because as far as I remember Fitz is the only character who does not grow throughout the series (admittedly, I haven't read the last trilogy, but from what I hear about it it's just same old, same old). I mean, I get it, he's had a shitty life, but he's not even trying to get better even when the opportunity is presented to him on a silver plate. I know some people find that realistic and stuff, but realistic does not equal character growth. Again, examples? I genuinely like the rest of the series, but Fitz is a big downside of it.

Anyway, am about to start The Court of Broken Knives by Anna Smith Spark.

Oh dear.

I think a point needs to be made here about the relevance of character realism.

Firstly, its not very realistic that a person never learns, in reality many people do learn and change their behaviour especially as they mature from childhood to adolescence to adulthood, as we see Fitz doing in the series.

Secondly, if he doesn't, if he really is that stupid and incompetent, why would anyone want to read about him?


Anna Smith Spark - I am interested in reactions to this book. I liked it, but I felt it went a bit OTT at times.

[worry]

 Andorion, on 07 April 2018 - 01:26 AM, said:

Firstly, its not very realistic that a person never learns, in reality many people do learn and change their behaviour especially as they mature from childhood to adolescence to adulthood [citation needed]

[Mentalist]

I think I'll have to move "Assassin's Quest" up the list just to see what all the fuss is about...

Meanwhile, 40% into "Hymn". It totally started not how I expected, and there's a brand new element that could be kinda Deus Ex Machina-ish, but hasn't become like that yet.

Other than that, the plot is pretty much going where it was set up to go, although one particular plot thread has "senseless Greek tragedy moment incoming" written all over it, the question is only "just how will things go spectacularly wrong for reasons that could probably have been avoided"

[Macros]

Just finished The Lost Legion by Ben Kane.

Damn you QT, this seems like an author I will end up owning the entire works of.

Definitely need to make that additional book shelf now

[Aptorian]

Finished the second Iron Druid Chronicles book, Hexed, earlier this week. Still a hoaky kind of book series but I think it improved between book one and two. Or maybe I just got used to the formula. Still find it bizarre that this random druid just randomly hangs out with gods, though there is something charming about this more personal form of deities. I like the idea of modern gods being versions of modern belief systems. So there are many different forms of the gods, several kinds of Jesus and Virgin Mary, etc.

One aspect that does bother me and I imagine is just going to be a running joke/trope, is the druid, Atticus, giving the police the run around. Just like the Dresden Files, it feels like a lot of death, carnage and mistrust could be saved by just having a meeting with the police chief and certain detectives. Demonstrate that the super natural exists and they need to learn when to get out of the way. If they freak out just have vampire lawyer mind fuck them back into ignorance.

In connection with that I find it funny but also jarring how uncaring Atticus can be about people dying around him. He has that immortal "mortals dying is just a part of life" thing but he's also written to be "the good guy" and as though he cares about the baddies doing bad things. As such you'd think he'd be more shaken up about a fallen angel eating school children or a bunch of dryads murdering scores of night club goers.

I'd appreciate a bit more depth to his character. Dresden would had been fucking murderous with rage if somebody pulled off this stuff in Chicago.

Began reading the first Dragon Lance Chronicles book, Dragons of Autumn Twillight, this weekend. It's actually surprisingly good. I was expecting some antiquated writing and ancient tropes that only serve as a thin excuse for a Dungeons and Dragons-like board gameplay but it sucked me right in.

I'm reading a Danish translation that is super weird. I generally don't like reading Danish translations of English books, since something is often lost in the telling of the tale, but this book is weirder than that. For some reason the publisher decided to keep the names for places and people in English. Perhaps because of Dragonlance marketing reasons??? but what ever, it means you'll be reading a Danish sentence and suddenly "The Seekers" appear or the name of Flint Fireforge or Sturn Brightblade which just looks insane in an otherwise ordinary danish sentence. It's like reading video game fanfiction.

That aside I an impressed with the way the book opens. Like so many older fantasy tales inspired by Tolkien, the book starts with a bunch of travellers assembling and quest begins, but it's written in a clever way, where connections and shared history between the characters are mentioned in passing or hinted at, which suggests an older story and a wider world that immediately draws my attention. When it within the first 20 pages numerous times referred to older events and a previous meeting between the adventures five years past, I was convinced there was some older books I had forgotten about. This is a clever set-up. I am already hungry for lore and bread crumbs about the characters' pasts.

It doesn't hurt either that within the first 5 pages of the people meeting, they nonchalantly pick a fight with some stereotypically evil goblins, whom they dispatch with ease. This is writing for my inner teenager.

This post has been edited by Alternative Goose: 09 April 2018 - 02:10 AM

[Macros]

Picked up Road Brothers by our good friend Mr Lawrence.
Collection of short stories set in the broken empire

[polishgenius]

 Puck, on 06 April 2018 - 09:27 PM, said:

Anyway, am about to start The Court of Broken Knives by Anna Smith Spark.

I'm interested in your reactions to this too. I really liked it, but not everyone has, I think especially since it starts off being your normal, Abercrombie-ish grimdark but by the end it's... kind of not that?

[QuickTidal]

 Macros, on 08 April 2018 - 05:54 PM, said:

Just finished The Lost Legion by Ben Kane.

Damn you QT, this seems like an author I will end up owning the entire works of.

Definitely need to make that additional book shelf now

Yeah, me too. Needed to share since I know you dig Rome stuff!

[JPK]

 Bachelorluver, on 08 April 2018 - 11:36 PM, said:

Not sure how I didn’t go buy a 2nd Fitz 3. I’m thinking about it now. Getting very irked with these print mistakes. Only on pg 143 cause it’s slowing me down guessing what words are in the binding.

You should go buy a new copy BK. You should also grab Liveship 1 while you're at it.

[Puck]

 Andorion, on 07 April 2018 - 01:26 AM, said:

Oh dear.

I think a point needs to be made here about the relevance of character realism.

Firstly, its not very realistic that a person never learns, in reality many people do learn and change their behaviour especially as they mature from childhood to adolescence to adulthood, as we see Fitz doing in the series.

I have to disagree here, plenty of people never really learn anything. That said, that does make for a horrible protagonist, especially beyond the initial trilogy. Considering that fifteen years go by between Farseer and Tawny Man, and I'm kind of okay with a young man needing time to learn, I have zero tolerance for Fitz not learning one damn thing in fifteen years.

 Bachelorluver, on 07 April 2018 - 10:21 PM, said:

Oh my! Ando and I on opposite sides to a series must mean the world is ending! I wouldn’t say Fitz is stupid he just has horrendously bad luck. Also there is a reason he wasn’t used in bk 2 even though he himself wanted to

Spoiler

Shrewd loved Regal the most of all his sons and refused to believe he would harm anyone in the legitimate family or kingdom and he made Fitz promise he would not kill Regal

I can’t fault you for stopping in early bk 3 though. It was pretty sloggy for atleast the 1st half but ended very strong. I’m trying to get to the good stuff asap so I can start on Tawny Man trilogy.

I'd agree with Ando here and argue that

Spoiler

Fitz was still beholden zu Chade when it comes to asssassinations and Chade, of all people, couldn't and shouldn't have been so stupid as to just let Regal do his stuff, family or not. He's supposed to be a hardened assassin and working for the good of the Six Duchies, not for sentimental nonsense. I'd also argue that at least trying to assassinate Regal, even if it failed, would have made for a far better story, and would have presented a bunch of opportunities for character development. And I'm not talking about that half-hearted attempt in book 3, where Fitz has nothing better to do with his time.

Honestly, after Farseer I cannot help but feel like I'm reading fanfiction whenever it's a Fitz-centered book, one where the status quo needs to be preserved.

 Andorion, on 07 April 2018 - 01:26 AM, said:

Anna Smith Spark - I am interested in reactions to this book. I liked it, but I felt it went a bit OTT at times.

 polishgenius, on 08 April 2018 - 08:47 PM, said:

I'm interested in your reactions to this too. I really liked it, but not everyone has, I think especially since it starts off being your normal, Abercrombie-ish grimdark but by the end it's... kind of not that?

I'm not far in, but I found the beginning to be weak and the writing feels like it's trying hard to go deep but keeps skimming off the surface. That said, I also didn't much like Bakker's writing in the beginning, so I'll be back with an informed opinion when I'm done. I'm open to whatever may come, I just dislike being told what to feel rather than be shown stuff and make up my own mind.

This post has been edited by Puck: 09 April 2018 - 09:22 AM

[QuickTidal]

Mac, since you asked, I LOVED the end of RED SISTER. Did you?

About 40 pages into GREY SISTER by Mark Lawrence and damned if shit isn't already amazing.

MINOR spoilers, but not really since they happen in the first 40 pages, but still don't click if you wanna be TOTALLY fresh.

Spoiler

Keot?! Who the fuck...oh shit...killing Raymel made a WHAT jump into Nona that she has to fight against and he talks to her?!

Abbess Glass POV chapters?! Holy shit!

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 09 April 2018 - 01:08 PM

[Macros]

@QT

This is what I posted upon my finishing Red Sister:

Spoiler

just finished.

I am so, so, so happy with the ending of this book.

really nailed the landing, at one stage (for a very brief period about the 2/3 mark) I was about to turn against this book altogether

spoilerific musings

Spoiler

just before they went on the ranging I was just seeing Harry potter and the fucking philosopher's stone all over this. - read on before you attack me -
kids sneaking and stealing ingredients to make a potion, up against a superpower hell bent on stealing a super powerful artifact, going to confront the thief without telling dumbledore, I mean glass, the whole thing screamed cliche YA and I was convinced I knew what way the whole thing was going to go down, and I was horrified that this was the route Mark had went down for this novel. Horrified.
I knew Clera was going to flip, well before the midsection interlude to thorn being dropped by the spear, I was just getting frustrated with how things seemed to be sliding towards a more macabre version of ten other school for gifted kids books out there (minus the dragon cow and 2 stringed lute)
Then Bam, the awesome hits and everything that went before makes sense and I can't turn the pages fast enough.

I loved the setting for this, not post apocalyptic in the Nuke sense but still a world in serious distress, put me in a mind of the later Drenai novels or Jon Shannow. or the ones with the crazy warrior, if the ice had closed in.

I really enjoyed the slow play on why Nona was really sold, wonderfully foreshadowed with the truth potion, and it being an hour before she could lie to herself I am not a monster

now that the monster is loose, I want to see what she does next.
back to the type writer Mark, back to the typewriter

[QuickTidal]

 Macros, on 09 April 2018 - 01:22 PM, said:

@QT

This is what I posted upon my finishing Red Sister:

Spoiler

just finished.

I am so, so, so happy with the ending of this book.

really nailed the landing, at one stage (for a very brief period about the 2/3 mark) I was about to turn against this book altogether

spoilerific musings

Spoiler

just before they went on the ranging I was just seeing Harry potter and the fucking philosopher's stone all over this. - read on before you attack me -
kids sneaking and stealing ingredients to make a potion, up against a superpower hell bent on stealing a super powerful artifact, going to confront the thief without telling dumbledore, I mean glass, the whole thing screamed cliche YA and I was convinced I knew what way the whole thing was going to go down, and I was horrified that this was the route Mark had went down for this novel. Horrified.
I knew Clera was going to flip, well before the midsection interlude to thorn being dropped by the spear, I was just getting frustrated with how things seemed to be sliding towards a more macabre version of ten other school for gifted kids books out there (minus the dragon cow and 2 stringed lute)
Then Bam, the awesome hits and everything that went before makes sense and I can't turn the pages fast enough.

I loved the setting for this, not post apocalyptic in the Nuke sense but still a world in serious distress, put me in a mind of the later Drenai novels or Jon Shannow. or the ones with the crazy warrior, if the ice had closed in.

I really enjoyed the slow play on why Nona was really sold, wonderfully foreshadowed with the truth potion, and it being an hour before she could lie to herself I am not a monster

now that the monster is loose, I want to see what she does next.
back to the type writer Mark, back to the typewriter

Yes, very much agreed on most points....although I had the hindsight of reading it so late in the game and so many having read and enjoyed it, I knew the ending was going to be something special and flip everything on its head. Great stuff!

And let me tell you the opening of GREY SISTER won't disappoint you in this regard!

[Macros]

Which I don't get till mid may.

Bastard

[Abyss]

I am waiting until Mark finishes the trilogy.

I AM. DAMMIT.




Assh0les.

[QuickTidal]

 Abyss, on 09 April 2018 - 03:08 PM, said:

I am waiting until Mark finishes the trilogy.

I AM. DAMMIT.




Assh0les.

As you've often said to others about Dresden, Et al.

"Why would you deny yourself the glorious reading enjoyment...to wait?"

I mean, there is already two books out, you may as well.