[Puck]

I finished Hobb's The Tawny Man trilogy the other day. While I still kind of liked it, and still like the setting, I thought that it had huge pacing problems and the story came off as strangely bipolar in too many aspects. The writing and characterization also weren't on par with Liveship Traders. I feel like it'd need a reread to appreciate whatever there is to appreciate about it, but the humongous pile of angst therein makes me want to run for the hills. Also, that ending..
It's like reading a lovingly crafted story about the validity and importance of non-romantic relationships (familial, friendships, same-sex relationships of various kinds, connections with animals, etc.), only to be violently clubbed over the head with the moral that the only way to happiness is ending up married with kids. Oh joy.
..and that's my reaction after taking several days to cool off.

Now, on to Bakker's The Judging Eye, loving it so far

[JPK]

I just finished MoI on audio and spent the last hour of it bawling as usual. It was a reread, but knowing what was coming did nothing to lessen the feels. If anything, it served to intensify them.

Next up will be Dark Matter based on Ando's recommendation.

[amphibian]

I just went through Captain Vorpatril's Alliance. It's kind of lightweight fluff, but well done and gives us time with characters not dwelled on before for a while.

Bujold is skilled at this, but I hope to find more serious heft in Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen like I found in Cryoburn.

[Chance]

Done with GotM and nearly with DG re-read and unlike the last time I tried it is great, strange how ones mood probably affect these things I was bored last time. Also Erikson really is in a league of his own on complexity and detail there is so many small things to rediscover after not having read these books for a few years.

This post has been edited by Chance: 07 October 2016 - 03:40 AM

[Abyss]

Ketty Jay bk 3, IRON JACKAL. Marathoned the first half, damn I missed these characters.
In earbook, Ilona Andrews MAGIC BREAKS. Just started, but wow.

[Andorion]

23 chapters of Outlander done.

14 chapters of Blood Meridian done.

Thoughts on Outlander later, as for Blood Meridian the violence is becoming boring.

[Baco Xtath]

Halfway through Death's End. The final book in the Three-Body Problem trilogy. It's beyond excellent. I absolutely love these books.

[acesn8s]

90% through Shadow Ops: COntrol Point. It's been a fun read. Not sure if I'll jump right into book 2 though.

[Mentalist]

Dealing with broken commute means i'm about 2/3s done the Annihilation Score already.

Poor Bob. Stross wrote him into a cleanup job from hell so that Month could take center stage.

Stross' take on superheroes is hilarious. in my head i'm drawing parallels to Lovegrove's "Age of Shiva", but the spying undertones keep things fresh.

The minotaur on welfare bit was hilarious.

[Andorion]

Ok 29 chapters into Outlander. And two of those were huge chapters. Phew. Basically 70% done.

Spoiler

Ok so I am trying to parse how I feel about Claire's decision to stay. I get that she loves Jamie but on the other side of the equation there are a number of very obvious things - modern healthcare, safety, security, and of course the absence of large witch burning mobs (Seriously WTF? Did this stuff actually happen in 18th C Scotland? Why do we only shit on the Salem trials then?)

And added to all of this is Frank, her prior husband, whom she also loves.

So by her decision Jamie is better than safety+security+modernity+Frank? Sorry, I can't buy that.

Jamie is a great guy but he has definite consent and boundary issues which I feel have yet to be worked out.

I am really not sure how I feel about Claire at all.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

Starting The Obelisk Gate and trying to recall pertinent details from book 1. Why is there no service that does this?

This post has been edited by Whisperzzzzzzz: 07 October 2016 - 04:14 PM

[QuickTidal]

Andorion, on 07 October 2016 - 04:06 PM, said:

Ok 29 chapters into Outlander. And two of those were huge chapters. Phew. Basically 70% done.

Spoiler

Ok so I am trying to parse how I feel about Claire's decision to stay. I get that she loves Jamie but on the other side of the equation there are a number of very obvious things - modern healthcare, safety, security, and of course the absence of large witch burning mobs (Seriously WTF? Did this stuff actually happen in 18th C Scotland? Why do we only shit on the Salem trials then?)

And added to all of this is Frank, her prior husband, whom she also loves.

So by her decision Jamie is better than safety+security+modernity+Frank? Sorry, I can't buy that.

Jamie is a great guy but he has definite consent and boundary issues which I feel have yet to be worked out.

I am really not sure how I feel about Claire at all.

Spoiler

Okay, so with regards to Claire staying. Overwhelming love for Jamie. Like on a fundamental "he's my breath" level.

I also feel like the first book does only a moderate job of showcasing that Claire and Frank were a war marriage. She married him because he was going off to war, and when he has come back and they are at Scotland in the beginning, Gabaldon only does a mild job of portraying the fact that while she does love Frank and finds him kind and smart and generous...she still has a bit of a realization that she didn't know him too well when they married, and he'd been off to war for a few years and expected to just play happy homemakers when he came back and Claire was not about that, especially some of his own ideals about marriage which she disagreed with. The show does a MUCH better job of showing this small, but significant fact in the first few eps. It will become more clear later on, but Claire and Jamie are true loves, and Claire and Frank were a love born of convenience. The more time she spends with Jamie, the more she realizes this. Jamie is a Scot and fiery, independent women are in his wheelhouse...while Frank comes across more as the "husband takes care of the helpless wife". But yeah, as I said, book 1 doesn't exactly nail this fact loud enough....while the show rectifies it.

As to safety, security, and modernity? Starting with the love for Jamie....but also as a healer/wisewoman she feels like she can do some good for the century she's been shunted into...and beyond that she has knowledge of the future and specifically of the battle of Culloden field which she feels she can help with. Is it the brightest decision for her life? Maybe not. But love drives her and the need to help tops it off. She just came out of a disgustingly brutal war (WWII)....and she thinks that if she stays, she can help the Scots. But yeah, the overriding thing is Jamie. Imagine you met the absolute love of your life. The epitome equal of you. Would you leave them for conveniences and someone who you didn't love this fiercely?

Jamie is an 18th century Scot. As far as all the males who surround him, he is actually a saint....in comparison to say Dougal....who does what he wants with who he wants and is still called a hero. It was the age he was in. So you can't blame him for his actions since this was how he and every other male on that continent was raised. Also, trust Claire...she's not one to stand down when she feels slighted. (Sidebar: And this is nothing to what Black Jack Randall thinks appropriate! LOL)

I immediately liked Jamie more than Claire to begin with. Though flawed by his era, he is a stalwart, heroic, and genuinely easy-going person to root for. Claire is a slow boil. By the second half of book 1 I started to see her in a more interesting light. She makes HUGE, sweeping mistakes and is super flawed in her own right...which made her more interesting as a character. But yeah, she grows on you much slower than Jamie does. Also, Claire has a built-in irrationality that I find compelling.

The great thing about finishing book 1 is having the setting, characters, and general tone set out. Book 2 them becomes a faster and easier read with more defined characters and enjoyment (you haven't even met some of the best characters ion the series yet! ), and I rolled through book 3 at a breakneck pace. Book 4 is becoming the same after only a few days. Stick with it, your comments and issues will be more than answered.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 07 October 2016 - 04:47 PM

[acesn8s]

Finished Control Point. 3/5 stars, it kinda fell apart at the end.

I started A Thousand Names by Wexler.

[Gabriele]

Andorion, on 07 October 2016 - 04:06 PM, said:

Ok 29 chapters into Outlander. And two of those were huge chapters. Phew. Basically 70% done.

Spoiler

Ok so I am trying to parse how I feel about Claire's decision to stay. I get that she loves Jamie but on the other side of the equation there are a number of very obvious things - modern healthcare, safety, security, and of course the absence of large witch burning mobs (Seriously WTF? Did this stuff actually happen in 18th C Scotland? Why do we only shit on the Salem trials then?)

And added to all of this is Frank, her prior husband, whom she also loves.

So by her decision Jamie is better than safety+security+modernity+Frank? Sorry, I can't buy that.

Jamie is a great guy but he has definite consent and boundary issues which I feel have yet to be worked out.

I am really not sure how I feel about Claire at all.

Spoiler

You have to remember that Claire isn't from our time but from 1946 when marital rape wasn't considered a crime, for example. She'd have less issues with Jaime's behaviour than most readers. She also has a certain backstory, living in primitive circumstances when she was with her uncle, having gone through a war, bomb attacks and all that. While WW2 medicine no longer involved slaters, it was not what it's today, either. My mother's brother died from a lung inflammation as child due to shortage of penicilline, my great aunt lost a baby to fever - Claire would have known similar cases.

She loves Frank, yes. But they also got estranged during the war and now have to work to reestablish their relationship. They'd likely have succeeded if not for Claire's disapperance, but I think the bond was a bit frayed at the edges. And while she accepted a future as a don's wife, I got the feeling she wasn't exactly looking forward to it. She needs something more to do than being a good housewife, and that was not a usual thing post-war. Jaime offers her not only love, but activity, feeling useful, adventure.

And she realises that Jaime loves and needs her at least as much as Frank. She has to make a decision that will hurt one husband, no matter what.

This post has been edited by Gabriele: 07 October 2016 - 05:08 PM

[Andorion]

QuickTidal, on 07 October 2016 - 04:45 PM, said:

Andorion, on 07 October 2016 - 04:06 PM, said:

Ok 29 chapters into Outlander. And two of those were huge chapters. Phew. Basically 70% done.

Spoiler

Ok so I am trying to parse how I feel about Claire's decision to stay. I get that she loves Jamie but on the other side of the equation there are a number of very obvious things - modern healthcare, safety, security, and of course the absence of large witch burning mobs (Seriously WTF? Did this stuff actually happen in 18th C Scotland? Why do we only shit on the Salem trials then?)

And added to all of this is Frank, her prior husband, whom she also loves.

So by her decision Jamie is better than safety+security+modernity+Frank? Sorry, I can't buy that.

Jamie is a great guy but he has definite consent and boundary issues which I feel have yet to be worked out.

I am really not sure how I feel about Claire at all.

Spoiler

Okay, so with regards to Claire staying. Overwhelming love for Jamie. Like on a fundamental "he's my breath" level.

I also feel like the first book does only a moderate job of showcasing that Claire and Frank were a war marriage. She married him because he was going off to war, and when he has come back and they are at Scotland in the beginning, Gabaldon only does a mild job of portraying the fact that while she does love Frank and finds him kind and smart and generous...she still has a bit of a realization that she didn't know him too well when they married, and he'd been off to war for a few years and expected to just play happy homemakers when he came back and Claire was not about that, especially some of his own ideals about marriage which she disagreed with. The show does a MUCH better job of showing this small, but significant fact in the first few eps. It will become more clear later on, but Claire and Jamie are true loves, and Claire and Frank were a love born of convenience. The more time she spends with Jamie, the more she realizes this. Jamie is a Scot and fiery, independent women are in his wheelhouse...while Frank comes across more as the "husband takes care of the helpless wife". But yeah, as I said, book 1 doesn't exactly nail this fact loud enough....while the show rectifies it.

As to safety, security, and modernity? Starting with the love for Jamie....but also as a healer/wisewoman she feels like she can do some good for the century she's been shunted into...and beyond that she has knowledge of the future and specifically of the battle of Culloden field which she feels she can help with. Is it the brightest decision for her life? Maybe not. But love drives her and the need to help tops it off. She just came out of a disgustingly brutal war (WWII)....and she thinks that if she stays, she can help the Scots. But yeah, the overriding thing is Jamie. Imagine you met the absolute love of your life. The epitome equal of you. Would you leave them for conveniences and someone who you didn't love this fiercely?

Jamie is an 18th century Scot. As far as all the males who surround him, he is actually a saint....in comparison to say Dougal....who does what he wants with who he wants and is still called a hero. It was the age he was in. So you can't blame him for his actions since this was how he and every other male on that continent was raised. Also, trust Claire...she's not one to stand down when she feels slighted. (Sidebar: And this is nothing to what Black Jack Randall thinks appropriate! LOL)

I immediately liked Jamie more than Claire to begin with. Though flawed by his era, he is a stalwart, heroic, and genuinely easy-going person to root for. Claire is a slow boil. By the second half of book 1 I started to see her in a more interesting light. She makes HUGE, sweeping mistakes and is super flawed in her own right...which made her more interesting as a character. But yeah, she grows on you much slower than Jamie does. Also, Claire has a built-in irrationality that I find compelling.

The great thing about finishing book 1 is having the setting, characters, and general tone set out. Book 2 them becomes a faster and easier read with more defined characters and enjoyment (you haven't even met some of the best characters ion the series yet! ), and I rolled through book 3 at a breakneck pace. Book 4 is becoming the same after only a few days. Stick with it, your comments and issues will be more than answered.

Okay, your comment has helped me to make sense of a lot of stuff

Spoiler

I totally missed the Frank vibe. Claire seemed happy enough and I think the author really understated things. A couple more chapters there could not have gone amiss.

Helping the Scots - Oh ok that line "Don't be on Culloden field" and yeah I get it. Yeah that is a laudable goal.

I like Jamie more. He seems like a genuinely nice honourable guy. What I am interested in is whether Claire can get him to change his ways and standards a bit. I feel like this has already started.

BTW I loved Jamie's sister.

Honestly the book is enjoyable and easy to read. I just need a 3 hour unbroken period and I would make better progress. If I got just one light week I could probably finish books 2 and 3.

Gabriele, on 07 October 2016 - 05:06 PM, said:

Andorion, on 07 October 2016 - 04:06 PM, said:

Ok 29 chapters into Outlander. And two of those were huge chapters. Phew. Basically 70% done.

Spoiler

Ok so I am trying to parse how I feel about Claire's decision to stay. I get that she loves Jamie but on the other side of the equation there are a number of very obvious things - modern healthcare, safety, security, and of course the absence of large witch burning mobs (Seriously WTF? Did this stuff actually happen in 18th C Scotland? Why do we only shit on the Salem trials then?)

And added to all of this is Frank, her prior husband, whom she also loves.

So by her decision Jamie is better than safety+security+modernity+Frank? Sorry, I can't buy that.

Jamie is a great guy but he has definite consent and boundary issues which I feel have yet to be worked out.

I am really not sure how I feel about Claire at all.

Spoiler

You have to remember that Claire isn't from our time but from 1946 when marital rape wasn't considered a crime, for example. She'd have less issues with Jaime's behaviour than most readers. She also has a certain backstory, living in primitive circumstances when she was with her uncle, having gone through a war, bomb attacks and all that. While WW2 medicine no longer involved slaters, it was not what it's today, either. My mother's brother died from a lung inflammation as child due to shortage of penicilline, my great aunt lost a baby to fever - Claire would have known similar cases.

She loves Frank, yes. But they also got estranged during the war and now have to work to reestablish their relationship. They'd likely have succeeded if not for Claire's disapperance, but I think the bond was a bit frayed at the edges. And while she accepted a future as a don's wife, I got the feeling she wasn't exactly looking forward to it. She needs something more to do than being a good housewife, and that was not a usual thing post-war. Jaime offers her not only love, but activity, feeling useful, adventure.

And she realises that Jaime loves and needs her at least as much as Frank. She has to make a decision that will hurt one husband, no matter what.

You make a very good point about Claire's time. For some reason I was putting her post 80s. Of course the war context is significant.

[QuickTidal]

Andorion, on 07 October 2016 - 05:19 PM, said:

BTW I loved Jamie's sister.

Woohoo! Jenny! Not only one of the best characters in the books, but the casting on the TV show is PERFECTION itself.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 07 October 2016 - 05:23 PM

[Andorion]

QuickTidal, on 07 October 2016 - 05:23 PM, said:

Andorion, on 07 October 2016 - 05:19 PM, said:

BTW I loved Jamie's sister.

Woohoo! Jenny! Not only one of the best characters in the books, but the casting on the TV show is PERFECTION itself.

Her argument with Jamie was pure popcorn for me.

Spoiler

BTW what is the story with Randall? Is he just gay, or is he gay and can only have sex with women when he torments them?

Oh something I should have posted earlier - Did Claire actually say to Collum's face that she knew Hamish wasn't his son?

If so, for the love of everything good, why??

[Andorion]

High Geek of Crawfish, on 07 October 2016 - 05:33 PM, said:

How many of the bks do you have atm?

The first three for now. If I love them (which seems likely) I will get the rest

[Gabriele]

Andorion, on 07 October 2016 - 05:30 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 07 October 2016 - 05:23 PM, said:

Andorion, on 07 October 2016 - 05:19 PM, said:

BTW I loved Jamie's sister.

Woohoo! Jenny! Not only one of the best characters in the books, but the casting on the TV show is PERFECTION itself.

Her argument with Jamie was pure popcorn for me.

Spoiler

BTW what is the story with Randall? Is he just gay, or is he gay and can only have sex with women when he torments them?

Oh something I should have posted earlier - Did Claire actually say to Collum's face that she knew Hamish wasn't his son?

If so, for the love of everything good, why??

Spoiler

When they're both in Collum's room, looking out of the window and watch Hamish fall off the horse, Claire says something like "you love him like a son, don't you," and Collum, after a moment of being taken aback, admits it with a nod, or a 'yes' - not sure about the exact wording because it's some time I read the books. Should reread them.

[Andorion]

Gabriele, on 07 October 2016 - 05:38 PM, said:

Andorion, on 07 October 2016 - 05:30 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 07 October 2016 - 05:23 PM, said:

Andorion, on 07 October 2016 - 05:19 PM, said:

BTW I loved Jamie's sister.

Woohoo! Jenny! Not only one of the best characters in the books, but the casting on the TV show is PERFECTION itself.

Her argument with Jamie was pure popcorn for me.

Spoiler

BTW what is the story with Randall? Is he just gay, or is he gay and can only have sex with women when he torments them?

Oh something I should have posted earlier - Did Claire actually say to Collum's face that she knew Hamish wasn't his son?

If so, for the love of everything good, why??

Spoiler

When they're both in Collum's room, looking out of the window and watch Hamish fall off the horse, Claire says something like "you love him like a son, don't you," and Collum, after a moment of being taken aback, admits it with a nod, or a 'yes' - not sure about the exact wording because it's some time I read the books. Should reread them.

Yep that's the bit.

Spoiler

But why would she want to do that? It was pretty risky! And she did this after the iffy clan succession thing was explained to her!