[Maark Abbott]

worry, on 20 January 2016 - 05:21 AM, said:

Maark, on 20 January 2016 - 04:49 AM, said:

Abyss, on 18 January 2016 - 05:48 PM, said:

amphibian, on 18 January 2016 - 04:31 PM, said:

THE SLOG IS THE SLOG

SO MUCH SLOG.

I did WOT in one read-through. I got this.

If you're talking about Crown of Stars, really the first book itself is most of the slog. After that, book 2 has its fits but goes really dark, and then it's pretty slog-free imo.

Mostly around page 200 I had to lower the book for a moment, look up, utter 'well, fuck' (on a crowded train no less) and then carry on as though a wayward son, expecting peace when it was done.

Add 'Frater Hugh' to the list, just next to 'Bidithal'.

[worry]

Oh jeez, I forgot about that. Yup.

I'd probably enjoy the first book more on a reread. I was a little sulky on the "yet another medieval church allegory in fantasy" thing and wasn't feeling generous. Luckily I bought the whole series at once on ebay and felt compelled to continue. It just took a little patience and the big epic fantasy elements do come, but the very thorough craftwork of the first book really helps ground and cohere the wilder stuff.

This post has been edited by worry: 20 January 2016 - 07:47 AM

[Serenity]

Well my opinion of The Aylesford Skull changed pretty quickly during yesterday. I found there was a weird kind of disengagement going on between the events that were occurring and the way the characters were reacting to them, and by half way through it was really starting to piss me off - capped by the main character's kid being kidnapped and held to ransom, so his wife decides to go for a picnic. WTF??

So I've put it to one side and started the next Foreigner book, Inheritor, instead.

[QuickTidal]

Could not get into NEMESIS GAMES (I know, I know...I will, just not in the mod for it right now...and Belter patois still drives me NUTS, which doesn't help the prologue is mostly in that)...so I figured it was time for a non-fic palate cleanser.

THE CRUSADES by Thomas Asbridge. Wow. It's huge (covers everything from the First Crusade to the last) but at about page 100, after the First Crusade lucked ass-backward into wins at Antioch and the fall of Jerusalem...and after Godfrey of Boullion has passed away and the leadership of Jerusalem and the Crusader states passed to Baldwin I as king...the goddamn thing reads like Game of Thrones. It's visceral, battle-heavy, blood-soaked, and infinitely interesting. A fantastic read for anyone's first foray into a historical volume on the Crusades in a general way. It dips JUST enough into the events to keep you interested and mostly informed.

Also, seriously. Antioch. The fact that the Frankish Crusaders were able to eventually sack that city and open their way into the rest of the Holy Land is nothing short of a compendium of stupid luck.

[Andorion]

QuickTidal, on 20 January 2016 - 04:19 PM, said:

Could not get into NEMESIS GAMES (I know, I know...I will, just not in the mod for it right now...and Belter patois still drives me NUTS, which doesn't help the prologue is mostly in that)...so I figured it was time for a non-fic palate cleanser.

THE CRUSADES by Thomas Asbridge. Wow. It's huge (covers everything from the First Crusade to the last) but at about page 100, after the First Crusade lucked ass-backward into wins at Antioch and the fall of Jerusalem...and after Godfrey of Boullion has passed away and the leadership of Jerusalem and the Crusader states passed to Baldwin I as king...the goddamn thing reads like Game of Thrones. It's visceral, battle-heavy, blood-soaked, and infinitely interesting. A fantastic read for anyone's first foray into a historical volume on the Crusades in a general way. It dips JUST enough into the events to keep you interested and mostly informed.

Also, seriously. Antioch. The fact that the Frankish Crusaders were able to eventually sack that city and open their way into the rest of the Holy Land is nothing short of a compendium of stupid luck.

How does it compare to Steven Runciman's multi-volume history? The last good crusade book I read was by Jonathan Riley Smith and though it had some good analysis it was short on detail

[QuickTidal]

Andorion, on 20 January 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 20 January 2016 - 04:19 PM, said:

Could not get into NEMESIS GAMES (I know, I know...I will, just not in the mod for it right now...and Belter patois still drives me NUTS, which doesn't help the prologue is mostly in that)...so I figured it was time for a non-fic palate cleanser.

THE CRUSADES by Thomas Asbridge. Wow. It's huge (covers everything from the First Crusade to the last) but at about page 100, after the First Crusade lucked ass-backward into wins at Antioch and the fall of Jerusalem...and after Godfrey of Boullion has passed away and the leadership of Jerusalem and the Crusader states passed to Baldwin I as king...the goddamn thing reads like Game of Thrones. It's visceral, battle-heavy, blood-soaked, and infinitely interesting. A fantastic read for anyone's first foray into a historical volume on the Crusades in a general way. It dips JUST enough into the events to keep you interested and mostly informed.

Also, seriously. Antioch. The fact that the Frankish Crusaders were able to eventually sack that city and open their way into the rest of the Holy Land is nothing short of a compendium of stupid luck.

How does it compare to Steven Runciman's multi-volume history? The last good crusade book I read was by Jonathan Riley Smith and though it had some good analysis it was short on detail

This is actually one fo the first comprehensive works on the Crusades in general that I've ever read. Most of my previous interest in the subject came from volumes concentrating on specific events and people (ie. Templars, Hospitallers, Richard the Lionheart and such)...so I'm enjoying the broad scope and I've been taking notes on specific incidents touched upon lightly to focus on in further in depth reading (like Baldwin I's mistake of misjudging the Egyptian Fatimid Vizier who controlled Ascalon's adavcne north with a full field army as "probably just skirmishers" and easily dealt with...which resulted in him on the run for weeks and nearly dying multiple times, only to lose Ascalon completely and BARELY save Jaffa.)

I'll have to look into those other authors later on.

[Andorion]

QuickTidal, on 20 January 2016 - 04:40 PM, said:

Andorion, on 20 January 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 20 January 2016 - 04:19 PM, said:

Could not get into NEMESIS GAMES (I know, I know...I will, just not in the mod for it right now...and Belter patois still drives me NUTS, which doesn't help the prologue is mostly in that)...so I figured it was time for a non-fic palate cleanser.

THE CRUSADES by Thomas Asbridge. Wow. It's huge (covers everything from the First Crusade to the last) but at about page 100, after the First Crusade lucked ass-backward into wins at Antioch and the fall of Jerusalem...and after Godfrey of Boullion has passed away and the leadership of Jerusalem and the Crusader states passed to Baldwin I as king...the goddamn thing reads like Game of Thrones. It's visceral, battle-heavy, blood-soaked, and infinitely interesting. A fantastic read for anyone's first foray into a historical volume on the Crusades in a general way. It dips JUST enough into the events to keep you interested and mostly informed.

Also, seriously. Antioch. The fact that the Frankish Crusaders were able to eventually sack that city and open their way into the rest of the Holy Land is nothing short of a compendium of stupid luck.

How does it compare to Steven Runciman's multi-volume history? The last good crusade book I read was by Jonathan Riley Smith and though it had some good analysis it was short on detail

This is actually one fo the first comprehensive works on the Crusades in general that I've ever read. Most of my previous interest in the subject came from volumes concentrating on specific events and people (ie. Templars, Hospitallers, Richard the Lionheart and such)...so I'm enjoying the broad scope and I've been taking notes on specific incidents touched upon lightly to focus on in further in depth reading (like Baldwin I's mistake of misjudging the Egyptian Fatimid Vizier who controlled Ascalon's adavcne north with a full field army as "probably just skirmishers" and easily dealt with...which resulted in him on the run for weeks and nearly dying multiple times, only to lose Ascalon completely and BARELY save Jaffa.)

I'll have to look into those other authors later on.

Runciman's books are quite old but as far as I know, they are the definitive work on the subject. He also has some excellent books on the Byzantine Empire. I bet GGK read him before writing Sarantine Mosaic.

[QuickTidal]

Andorion, on 20 January 2016 - 04:45 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 20 January 2016 - 04:40 PM, said:

Andorion, on 20 January 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 20 January 2016 - 04:19 PM, said:

Could not get into NEMESIS GAMES (I know, I know...I will, just not in the mod for it right now...and Belter patois still drives me NUTS, which doesn't help the prologue is mostly in that)...so I figured it was time for a non-fic palate cleanser.

THE CRUSADES by Thomas Asbridge. Wow. It's huge (covers everything from the First Crusade to the last) but at about page 100, after the First Crusade lucked ass-backward into wins at Antioch and the fall of Jerusalem...and after Godfrey of Boullion has passed away and the leadership of Jerusalem and the Crusader states passed to Baldwin I as king...the goddamn thing reads like Game of Thrones. It's visceral, battle-heavy, blood-soaked, and infinitely interesting. A fantastic read for anyone's first foray into a historical volume on the Crusades in a general way. It dips JUST enough into the events to keep you interested and mostly informed.

Also, seriously. Antioch. The fact that the Frankish Crusaders were able to eventually sack that city and open their way into the rest of the Holy Land is nothing short of a compendium of stupid luck.

How does it compare to Steven Runciman's multi-volume history? The last good crusade book I read was by Jonathan Riley Smith and though it had some good analysis it was short on detail

This is actually one fo the first comprehensive works on the Crusades in general that I've ever read. Most of my previous interest in the subject came from volumes concentrating on specific events and people (ie. Templars, Hospitallers, Richard the Lionheart and such)...so I'm enjoying the broad scope and I've been taking notes on specific incidents touched upon lightly to focus on in further in depth reading (like Baldwin I's mistake of misjudging the Egyptian Fatimid Vizier who controlled Ascalon's adavcne north with a full field army as "probably just skirmishers" and easily dealt with...which resulted in him on the run for weeks and nearly dying multiple times, only to lose Ascalon completely and BARELY save Jaffa.)

I'll have to look into those other authors later on.

Runciman's books are quite old but as far as I know, they are the definitive work on the subject. He also has some excellent books on the Byzantine Empire. I bet GGK read him before writing Sarantine Mosaic.

Cool, I will check him out for sure.

[polishgenius]

I read Knight's Shadow, the second of Sebastien De Castell's Greatcoats series.

I liked it a lot. A solid step up from the first one.

[worry]

I finished The Rabbit Back Literature Society, and had a pretty mixed reaction to it. I guess it has Twin Peaks-y elements, but it's never particularly scary. It has plenty of intriguing magical realism & even horror elements that it introduces, but to be frank it mostly circles around the interesting stuff and rarely actually approaches it. You can tell it's going for building a puzzle of sorts with its mysteries, but they don't ultimately cohere, and in the meantime it neglects its most interesting elements for boggy details. There's interesting stuff here but the priorities are off imo.

[worry]

Yah my Spanish is horrible and I have no excuses either. The lack of quotation marks is a McCarthy standard though, not just this book.

I think you should read The Road soon. It's CM's grim take on the post-apocalypse. It's ~50 pages shorter and a somewhat easier read (the quotation marks thing is still there, but it's not dialogue-heavy anyway). The descriptive language is still just so wonderful, even with a decidedly greyer palate, and character relationships are easier to get a hold on.

[Andorion]

Raging Cajun Gator King, on 21 January 2016 - 01:21 AM, said:

I've hit the 100pg mark in Blood Meridian. Fantastic book. So descriptive in terms of the land. However characters basically appear out of thin air in The Kids trek and I frequently have re read entire pgs so it's very frustrating in some parts. I'd be much further in otherwise. That and figuring out what's dialogue and spoken by whom. Also this book is filled with Spanish and I've got no clue what I'm reading. Hell I live 30 mins away from TX so I really really really should have learned this language growing up so close to this many Mexicans.

Lovely bk though. Ando you should look into this short sweet book.

I have been following your posts, and I might look into it, but first I need to finish Wolfe

[JPK]

I'm going to back King's recommendation here Ando. It was a really really good book, and the writing really was beautifully done. I'm going to grab a copy of The Road as well off your recommendation, Worry.

[Andorion]

25 chapters into Citadel of the Autarch and holy crap Gene Wolfe can write great battle scenes! Also my love, yes love, for this series has been increasing steeply with every page I read. This series is crazy.

[worry]

Lonesome Dove should appeal to Malazan fans in particular. Lots of great characters, multiple POVs, a plenitude of brutal truths, a Chain of Dogs-like trek, and a deliberate manipulation of tropes.

[Andorion]

Finished Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun. When I started off I never thought it would be such a journey. I mean the page count is so low, and there's only one PoV! I never thought it could be this complex.

I will be frank. Around Book 2 I was hopelessly confused and dis consider putting it down. But from book 3 things just kept getting better and better and book 4 was excellent. I think I still haven;t understood around 60*75% of what actually happened. Someday when I can actually read 6-7 hours at a stretch instead of my usual 1 hour now, I will reread.

So, should I read Urth of the New Sun?

[T77]

Andorion, on 21 January 2016 - 09:49 AM, said:

Finished Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun. When I started off I never thought it would be such a journey. I mean the page count is so low, and there's only one PoV! I never thought it could be this complex.

I will be frank. Around Book 2 I was hopelessly confused and dis consider putting it down. But from book 3 things just kept getting better and better and book 4 was excellent. I think I still haven;t understood around 60*75% of what actually happened. Someday when I can actually read 6-7 hours at a stretch instead of my usual 1 hour now, I will reread.

So, should I read Urth of the New Sun?

Absolutely. It's awesome.

And as for Latro books, there are only 3 as far as I know, whoever mentioned that. You should read Latro too. And after Urth read Long and Short Sun. Long was just OK, but Short is phenomenal.

[Salt-Man Z]

Andorion, on 21 January 2016 - 09:49 AM, said:

Finished Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun. When I started off I never thought it would be such a journey. I mean the page count is so low, and there's only one PoV! I never thought it could be this complex.

I will be frank. Around Book 2 I was hopelessly confused and dis consider putting it down. But from book 3 things just kept getting better and better and book 4 was excellent. I think I still haven;t understood around 60*75% of what actually happened. Someday when I can actually read 6-7 hours at a stretch instead of my usual 1 hour now, I will reread.

So, should I read Urth of the New Sun?

Awesome. Glad to hear you enjoyed it so much, even (especially) after a rocky start. And yes, you should definitely read Urth. Be prepared for Something Completely Different but still integral to the previous books. Urth makes the reread that much more amazing.

The best part is, Wolfe's written so much that now that you've "discovered" him, you have a veritable treasure trove awaiting you. I'll give a shoutout here to Peace, Pirate Freedom, and Starwater Strains (my favorite of his short story collections.)

Man, I need to read more Wolfe this year. I've still own 12 books of his I haven't read yet...

This post has been edited by Salt-Man Z: 21 January 2016 - 03:55 PM

[amphibian]

T77, on 21 January 2016 - 03:38 PM, said:

Andorion, on 21 January 2016 - 09:49 AM, said:

Finished Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun. When I started off I never thought it would be such a journey. I mean the page count is so low, and there's only one PoV! I never thought it could be this complex.

I will be frank. Around Book 2 I was hopelessly confused and dis consider putting it down. But from book 3 things just kept getting better and better and book 4 was excellent. I think I still haven;t understood around 60*75% of what actually happened. Someday when I can actually read 6-7 hours at a stretch instead of my usual 1 hour now, I will reread.

So, should I read Urth of the New Sun?

Absolutely. It's awesome.

And as for Latro books, there are only 3 as far as I know, whoever mentioned that. You should read Latro too. And after Urth read Long and Short Sun. Long was just OK, but Short is phenomenal.

There are 4 Latro books. The story reaches a good "end" after 3 and the 4th is ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC, but leaves Latro in a place where it's obviously not the end of the story. I cannot emphasize how strongly written the 4th Latro book is. It's one of the best explorations of that particular set of mythologies and culture I've ever read. But... the story ain't at an ending point after it and I don't know if Wolfe will write a fifth.

[Salt-Man Z]

amphibian, on 21 January 2016 - 06:07 PM, said:

There are 4 Latro books. The story reaches a good "end" after 3 and the 4th is ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC, but leaves Latro in a place where it's obviously not the end of the story. I cannot emphasize how strongly written the 4th Latro book is. It's one of the best explorations of that particular set of mythologies and culture I've ever read. But... the story ain't at an ending point after it and I don't know if Wolfe will write a fifth.

You're...trolling us, right?

Soldier of the Mist (1986)
Soldier of Arete (1989)
Soldier of Sidon (2006)

The first two were collected as "Latro in the Mist" in 2003.