[Kruppe's snacky cakes]

amphibian, on 03 December 2013 - 11:01 PM, said:

Planetary by Warren Ellis is a top 5 comic book series of all time. It's fun, poignant, complex, has amazing art and above all, a truly solid story with excellent characters. If you've not read that, it's the highest point of all his works thus far.

Yes, I've got this wishlisted, along with Transmetropolitan, and possibly others I'm forgetting.

QuickTidal, on 04 December 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

LotF has a pretty solid finale, but I found the following series FATE OF THE JEDI to be overall better...but it's another 9 book series. But then the final book in THAT series is probably the best SW EU book I'd read in a long while...so...hit and miss. You're not alone.

Kruppe, on 03 December 2013 - 10:36 PM, said:

254. Global Frequency graphic novel by Warren Ellis - Good, but I have yet to be wowed any of Ellis's stuff, as much as I was anticipating...

Oh too bad you didn't dig it. I loved GF when I read it.

Regarding, SW EU, I'm stuck in 2008. I've got all the 2009 published books in my to-read pile also, but I'm holding off on buying any more until I catch up. But it's nice to know there are some strong books ahead.

Regarding Ellis, I'm just going in with too high expectations. His GNs have been perfectly entertaining, just not the type of thing I would save and read again (so far).

[Studlock]

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 05 December 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

amphibian, on 05 December 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

It's because white people don't like the very tonally "odd" blend of Hindu/Muslim/South Asian religion/way of living that Cook throws them.

White people like to read about Norse, British and Germanic stuff and chuckle softly at the references or callbacks they discern in the layers. It's why Neil Gaiman is so popular.

Oh yea. Get that racism going. I had no idea that I, as a white person, hated that part of the Books of the South. In fact I was of the opinion that I enjoyed reading about other cultures, be they fantastical or based on something in our world. Thank you, O! Arbiter of Truth for All Mankind, for setting me straight.

This is not a personal attack on but please lets not mix up racism, a systemic, deliberate attack on someones ability to participate in society to same level as their peers despite being on the same level or more skillful than said peers with making a pretty harmless generalization.

[Obdigore]

Studlock, on 05 December 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 05 December 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

amphibian, on 05 December 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

It's because white people don't like the very tonally "odd" blend of Hindu/Muslim/South Asian religion/way of living that Cook throws them.

White people like to read about Norse, British and Germanic stuff and chuckle softly at the references or callbacks they discern in the layers. It's why Neil Gaiman is so popular.

Oh yea. Get that racism going. I had no idea that I, as a white person, hated that part of the Books of the South. In fact I was of the opinion that I enjoyed reading about other cultures, be they fantastical or based on something in our world. Thank you, O! Arbiter of Truth for All Mankind, for setting me straight.

This is not a personal attack on but please lets not mix up racism, a systemic, deliberate attack on someones ability to participate in society to same level as their peers despite being on the same level or more skillful than said peers with making a pretty harmless generalization.

I'm going to need you to go ahead and open a dictionary.

[Brujah]

Yeah, Stud. If you label that post as a 'harmless generalization', then you're no better than he is. I didn't feel the need to pile onto amphibian's piece of shit post as Obdi had already called it out, and we don't need to even have a race discussion, but don't defend that garbage either.


In fact, I don't even know who the fuck Neil Gaiman is.

[worry]

Hi haters.

Spoiler

Bye haters.

[Obdigore]

worry, on 05 December 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

Hi haters.

Spoiler

Bye haters.

Do you see why the books of the south suck now? They start racism arguments!

This post has been edited by Possibly Brent Weeks: 05 December 2013 - 09:27 AM

[Studlock]

I'm not going to reply after this because I don't want people to become upset but I will explain myself. I come from a community that actually suffers from systemic racism, and all things that come along with that, like a higher suicide rate, higher poverty rate, higher rates of incarnation rate...etc. So I think it's quiet silly, and not to say petty, to equate a harmless generalization that will lead to none of those things (and it won't, it's not like saying 'all black people like water melons' which is enforcing negative attitudes, you could yes it does enforce a negative attitude but the result of that? Nothing, there's no 'infrastructure' to enforce it on.) so when you 'racism' for such a petty thing it takes away the verbal power racism has. You make it common place, and thus acceptable. I know you probably didn't mean it like that but nonetheless it effects the attitudes surrounding the subject. Again sorry in a inflamed (ha ha) anyone's angry but I'm not 'trolling' I sincerely have a problem with the normalcy surrounding racism and what's used for.

EDIT: I wasn't defending the post, rather just pointing out the massive differences of said generalization and actual racism.

This post has been edited by Studlock: 05 December 2013 - 09:32 AM

[Obdigore]

Studlock, on 05 December 2013 - 09:29 AM, said:

I'm not going to reply after this because I don't want people to become upset but I will explain myself. I come from a community that actually suffers from systemic racism, and all things that come along with that, like a higher suicide rate, higher poverty rate, higher rates of incarnation rate...etc. So I think it's quiet silly, and not to say petty, to equate a harmless generalization that will lead to none of those things (and it won't, it's not like saying 'all black people like water melons' which is enforcing negative attitudes, you could yes it does enforce a negative attitude but the result of that? Nothing, there's no 'infrastructure' to enforce it on.) so when you 'racism' for such a petty thing it takes away the verbal power racism has. You make it common place, and thus acceptable. I know you probably didn't mean it like that but nonetheless it effects the attitudes surrounding the subject. Again sorry in a inflamed (ha ha) anyone's angry but I'm not 'trolling' I sincerely have a problem with the normalcy surrounding racism and what's used for.

EDIT: I wasn't defending the post, rather just pointing out the massive differences of said generalization and actual racism.

So because someone made a racist comment and I called them on it, somehow I'm making racism acceptable? Shouldn't you be for removing all racism, be it 'black people like watermelons', or the Systematic Racism that still exists in many cultures and governments? It is a mistake to imply that racism is 'harmless' so long as it isn't backed up by a System that enforces said racism. You are legitimizing racism far more than anyone else by implying that racism doesn't matter so long as you don't have a social structure to enforce your racism.

[worry]

Croaker? I barely knew 'er!

[Obdigore]

worry, on 05 December 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

Croaker? I barely knew 'er!

Did they ever make a frog joke in the series? Because I was always expecting one but never saw one.

Also (Spoilers for end of glittering stones)

Spoiler

I got so mad when Soulcatcher and a couple of the others were still alive. And the ending was just kind of shitty too

This post has been edited by Possibly Brent Weeks: 05 December 2013 - 09:48 AM

[worry]

Heavens to murgentroid, your spoiler tag did not work! The first part says "spoilers" plural.

[worry]

Oh you caught it in time, thank lady luck.

[Obdigore]

worry, on 05 December 2013 - 09:50 AM, said:

Oh you caught it in time, thank the Lady.

Fixed for being on topic.

[worry]

I loved the ending, really gave me a lump in my throat. Anyway, it's late and I'm getting sleepy, thanks for the exciting times folks!

[Brujah]

For some reason I'm picturing Stud wearing a 'Kill Whitey' t-shirt.

[Studlock]

Possibly Brent Weeks, on 05 December 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

Studlock, on 05 December 2013 - 09:29 AM, said:

I'm not going to reply after this because I don't want people to become upset but I will explain myself. I come from a community that actually suffers from systemic racism, and all things that come along with that, like a higher suicide rate, higher poverty rate, higher rates of incarnation rate...etc. So I think it's quiet silly, and not to say petty, to equate a harmless generalization that will lead to none of those things (and it won't, it's not like saying 'all black people like water melons' which is enforcing negative attitudes, you could yes it does enforce a negative attitude but the result of that? Nothing, there's no 'infrastructure' to enforce it on.) so when you 'racism' for such a petty thing it takes away the verbal power racism has. You make it common place, and thus acceptable. I know you probably didn't mean it like that but nonetheless it effects the attitudes surrounding the subject. Again sorry in a inflamed (ha ha) anyone's angry but I'm not 'trolling' I sincerely have a problem with the normalcy surrounding racism and what's used for.

EDIT: I wasn't defending the post, rather just pointing out the massive differences of said generalization and actual racism.

So because someone made a racist comment and I called them on it, somehow I'm making racism acceptable? Shouldn't you be for removing all racism, be it 'black people like watermelons', or the Systematic Racism that still exists in many cultures and governments? It is a mistake to imply that racism is 'harmless' so long as it isn't backed up by a System that enforces said racism. You are legitimizing racism far more than anyone else by implying that racism doesn't matter so long as you don't have a social structure to enforce your racism.

I lied, I will reply. Explain to me, from a white perspective, that a racist opinion about white people actually negatively effects white people and not just an individual, but the entirety of the group? It is harmless because it doesn't actually negatively effects anyone's ability to lead proactive and meaningful lives (save for the hurt feels of the individuals). It'd be nice for everyone to be nice to each other and respect each other but I doubt that's ever going to happen. The problem with focusing (and it will end up focuses on white narratives because it always does because systemic racism) on 'racism' that doesn't actually exist is your throwing a bunch of resources into a problem that doesn't actually fucking exist. White racism, reverse racism or whatever you want to call is not a thing. You'll never be discriminated against in any meaningful way based on your lily skin. Guess what happens when systematic racism goes away from a culture? All racism goes away--personal insults based on race won't--but they won't matter anymore because they won't be building into a system the enforces the insult.

So yes by calling out a person for generalizing white people is in fact enabling racism by saying it's an actual reality for white people. That's damaging to everyone else because guess what white people are not impeded in society based on their skin, and if all racism is equal and white people aren't discriminated against, then no one else is, it's all their fault for the position they end up in. If you want to continue the discussion you can PM me, but I'd suggest we stop spamming the thread.

Edit: @Brujah every intelligent comment, I'm sure you must be a delight to be around and boon for whatever community you are a part of.

This post has been edited by Studlock: 05 December 2013 - 10:04 AM

[Obdigore]

Studlock, on 05 December 2013 - 10:00 AM, said:

I lied, I will reply. Explain to me, from a white perspective, that a racist opinion about white people actually negatively effects white people and not just an individual, but the entirety of the group? It is harmless because it doesn't actually negatively effects anyone's ability to lead proactive and meaningful lives (save for the hurt feels of the individuals). It'd be nice for everyone to be nice to each other and respect each other but I doubt that's ever going to happen. The problem with focusing (and it will end up focuses on white narratives because it always does because systemic racism) on 'racism' that doesn't actually exist is your throwing a bunch of resources into a problem that doesn't actually fucking exist. White racism, reverse racism or whatever you want to call is not a thing. You'll never be discriminated against in any meaningful way based on your lily skin. Guess what happens when systematic racism goes away from a culture? All racism goes away--personal insults based on race won't--but they won't matter anymore because they won't be building into a system the enforces the insult.

So yes by calling out a person for generalizing white people is in fact enabling racism by saying it's an actual reality for white people. That's damaging to everyone else because guess what white people are not impeded in society based on their skin, and if all racism is equal and white people aren't discriminated against, then no one else is, it's all their fault for the position they end up in. If you want to continue the discussion you can PM me, but I'd suggest we stop spamming the thread.

Your entire world view requires that Racism be only institutionalized racism, which is just one of many types of racism.

Like I said, crack a dictionary.

This post has been edited by Possibly Brent Weeks: 05 December 2013 - 10:02 AM

[Morgoth]

Also, don't spend time denouncing abuse of workers because it's much shittier in Syria anyways. Why talk about discrimination of women in the work place when entire ethnic groups are banned from jobs in many countries.

I certainly will stop complaining about poor grammar in the daily newspaper as many children cannot even read.

The stupidity is astonishing.

[Obdigore]

Morgoth, on 05 December 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

Also, don't spend time denouncing abuse of workers because it's much shittier in Syria anyways. Why talk about discrimination of women in the work place when entire ethnic groups are banned from jobs in many countries.

I certainly will stop complaining about poor grammar in the daily newspaper as many children cannot even read.

The stupidity is astonishing.

Other people's problems don't matter so long as you have your own.

[Studlock]

Thank for your condescending responses. My view point requires institutionalized racism to be the root cause of all other racism, racist attitudes are allowed to be reflected in popular culture because it's allowed in the society by both the populous and gov't. But sure I'll just crack open my fucking dictionary, I'm sure that'll be better than the 4 years+ of post secondary education, specializing in areas of systemic abuse (sociology) and I'm sure it'll tell me that I am wrong, my professors and a large body of study is wrong.

And Morgoth, way to set up a terrible argument. Reverse Racism =/= any of shit you're saying because guess what abuse of workers in North America and European society? Actually exists. Discrimination of women in the workplace? Actually exists. Actual racism against white people in the vast majority of the world? Not a fucking thing. But please tell me how fucking stupid I am again, I am sure that fixes you're argument right up. Typical white bullshit, I wasn't even insulting, I tired to approach it as politely as possible.

EDIT: no they don't. I'm arguing white people don't experience racism. I would gladly argue for the white working class and middle class rights in the work place, and white women's right to objectified and be paid a equal wage as their counter-parts. I would argue for white LBTQG folk to marry and for the gov't to in better the situation the area surrounding disabled white folks. Because those things actually exists.

This post has been edited by Studlock: 05 December 2013 - 10:22 AM