[polishgenius]

Abyss, on 28 January 2024 - 05:36 AM, said:

Aaaaaand Just Finished.
Stuck the landing nicely. Fun well written book, took a completely wild turn from the first book but managed to be a sequel at the same time. I'll have to see about more from Gilman.

I'd recommend the Thunderer/Gears of the City duology next. His other book, Revolutions, is perfectly fine, I enjoyed it, but it's not at the level of the rest of his work. Thunderer is amazing.

Sadly that's the only five he's published to date.

I really love how Rise of Ransom City gives us the story set up previously framed by Ransom's complete obliviousness about what is going on.




Anyway, my reads in the last few weeks:

Some Desperate Glory by Emily Tesh, a space opera(ish) debut from last year. Pretty good, though at times I feel like the concept (which I can't spoil, as it's a bit of a twist) overwhelms the thematic setup and to some extent the characters too. I say space opra-ish because while it's definitely set in a Space Opera universe, the actual story doesn't involve that much spaceship battling or what have you.

Venomous Lumpsucker by Ned Beauman, an environemtl-action sci-fi statire, also from last year and the winner of the Clarke award. Manages the neat trick of skewering certain tendencies of environmental movements without seeming cynical about them (while also skewering opponents of environmental movement and being fully cynical about those). It's quite episodic, a journey through various weird and wacky places, so you have to have patience for that kind of thing, but it's fun.

The Surviving Sky by Kritika H Rao, also from last year. Being about a world in which massively destructive earthquakes (earthrages) endager all life on the planet, I think there's quite likely some Fifth Season inspiration here, though it's a different sort of story really- a sort of mystery about what's up with the plant-controlling magic that keeps humanity's cities afloat in the sky, and equally importantly the relationship between the two leads, a married couple in, essentially, opposing factions and with opposing agendas. Entertaining, and the way the back and forth between the pair goes is fun. But I had two problems with it: first, that it's a book based on massive game-changing revelations about the lore and status quo in a world which is alien to us- it started making huge dramatic shifts before it had even introduced much of that status quo, let alone got us used to it. So I didn't feel that as much as I should. It almost felt like the second book in a series.
Also I think the problems the main couple have with each other seem to be played about 50/50 and they have to find an equilibrium etc, but one of them is so clearly a worse person than the other that it doesn't really work for me.



Speaking of second books in the series, my current read is Death and the Conjuror by Tom Mead, which it turns out is the second in a series of murder mysteries about a conjuror and illusionist, but I don't imagine it'll be a problem because they seem to be standalone. We'll see. Not a long read anyway.

[Cause]

I miss R Scott Bakker.

That is all.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

JPK, on 30 January 2024 - 04:21 AM, said:

I finally finished up my first physical read of the year with a classic that I've been meaning to read for quite a while. THE NEVERENDING STORY by Michael Ende. I have to say that I loved this book, and found it became very engrossing in the later half. I think partially it's because the movie (that I suspect most of us here are at least passingly familiar with) only really covers the first half of the book and it gets much more philosophical with Bastion during the second half. A lot in here to think about involving growing, changing, self-acceptance, and both healthy and unhealthy wishes. It's definitely a book I plan to read again in the future.

Next up, I'm jumping into WACO by Jeff Guinn. I have a fascination with events that strongly shape domestic policies in the states and I don't think many would argue that the events involved here still have deep influence on both governmental policy and our culture as a whole. I'm pretty excited to be getting into this one

That sounds great - I loved the film when I was younger. I'll have a look for a copy

Whisperzzzzzzz, on 30 January 2024 - 03:23 PM, said:

The Priory of the Orange Tree

Be interested to hear what you think of this - it's been recommended to me a couple of times recently.

Finished Unruly - excellent read. Going to re-read something trashy for a breather and then I have Becky Chambers first Monk and Robot book to read

[Abyss]

Cause, on 31 January 2024 - 04:43 AM, said:

I miss R Scott Bakker.

That is all.

His name and the DARKNESS/ORDEAL series comes up all the time over on r/fantasy. It's kind of remarkable how often, i thought the series was way more niche.

I remain bummed we'll never get the third/final portion. It works as is, but the note it ends on leaves me wanting to know what was going to happen next.

[Abyss]

polishgenius, on 30 January 2024 - 08:02 PM, said:

Abyss, on 28 January 2024 - 05:36 AM, said:

Aaaaaand Just Finished.
Stuck the landing nicely. Fun well written book, took a completely wild turn from the first book but managed to be a sequel at the same time. I'll have to see about more from Gilman.

I'd recommend the Thunderer/Gears of the City duology next. His other book, Revolutions, is perfectly fine, I enjoyed it, but it's not at the level of the rest of his work. Thunderer is amazing.

Sadly that's the only five he's published to date.

I really love how Rise of Ransom City gives us the story set up previously framed by Ransom's complete obliviousness about what is going on.

Noted. I actually have THUNDERER in ebook but will likely pick up the earbook w GEARS as well. I truly enjoyed the books and his style of writing. You have it exactly right re RISE, and he does it so so well.

Quote

...
The Surviving Sky by Kritika H Rao, also from last year. Being about a world in which massively destructive earthquakes (earthrages) endager all life on the planet, I think there's quite likely some Fifth Season inspiration here, though it's a different sort of story really- a sort of mystery about what's up with the plant-controlling magic that keeps humanity's cities afloat in the sky, and equally importantly the relationship between the two leads, a married couple in, essentially, opposing factions and with opposing agendas. Entertaining, and the way the back and forth between the pair goes is fun. But I had two problems with it: first, that it's a book based on massive game-changing revelations about the lore and status quo in a world which is alien to us- it started making huge dramatic shifts before it had even introduced much of that status quo, let alone got us used to it. So I didn't feel that as much as I should. It almost felt like the second book in a series.
Also I think the problems the main couple have with each other seem to be played about 50/50 and they have to find an equilibrium etc, but one of them is so clearly a worse person than the other that it doesn't really work for me.
...

This one interests me, may check it out.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

Abyss, on 31 January 2024 - 02:33 PM, said:

Cause, on 31 January 2024 - 04:43 AM, said:

I miss R Scott Bakker.

That is all.

His name and the DARKNESS/ORDEAL series comes up all the time over on r/fantasy. It's kind of remarkable how often, i thought the series was way more niche.

I remain bummed we'll never get the third/final portion. It works as is, but the note it ends on leaves me wanting to know what was going to happen next.

Why won't we get it? Looks like he's still alive.

[Abyss]

Whisperzzzzzzz, on 31 January 2024 - 04:25 PM, said:

Abyss, on 31 January 2024 - 02:33 PM, said:

Cause, on 31 January 2024 - 04:43 AM, said:

I miss R Scott Bakker.

That is all.

His name and the DARKNESS/ORDEAL series comes up all the time over on r/fantasy. It's kind of remarkable how often, i thought the series was way more niche.

I remain bummed we'll never get the third/final portion. It works as is, but the note it ends on leaves me wanting to know what was going to happen next.

Why won't we get it? Looks like he's still alive.

To be clear, this is hearsay and conjecture assembled from partial facts and bits and pieces and social media, some of it from the author, some from other sources a few of which were close to him: The publisher dropped him once the four Aspect-Emperor books were published. The four books did not sell well and were published because there was a contract in place and it was cheaper to complete it than pay him out. Bakker was disillusioned and disgusted w the entire publishing process. He toyed w self-publishing but decide that was too much work. He focused on his academics and stopped writing fiction. Des[ite originally stating there was supposed to be a third series to complete the story, he has said that the end of THE UNHOLY CONSULT is 'the end' despite the cliffhanging.

[amphibian]

I semi respect the rage quit, but he chose to write the books he did.

[worry]

It's a great downer 'middle-volume' ending, and is kind of hilarious if the decision to end it there is final I guess, but I do want more.

On another note, I'm reading the Shattered Sea books. The first one was a real breeze so I jumped into the second without a break. It's aged down but not dumbed down Abercrombie, though a few chapters in the second book already feels closer in tone to his mainline books.

[Abyss]

Abyss, on 31 January 2024 - 04:55 PM, said:

Whisperzzzzzzz, on 31 January 2024 - 04:25 PM, said:

Abyss, on 31 January 2024 - 02:33 PM, said:

Cause, on 31 January 2024 - 04:43 AM, said:

I miss R Scott Bakker.

That is all.

His name and the DARKNESS/ORDEAL series comes up all the time over on r/fantasy. It's kind of remarkable how often, i thought the series was way more niche.

I remain bummed we'll never get the third/final portion. It works as is, but the note it ends on leaves me wanting to know what was going to happen next.

Why won't we get it? Looks like he's still alive.

To be clear, this is hearsay and conjecture assembled from partial facts and bits and pieces and social media, some of it from the author, some from other sources a few of which were close to him: The publisher dropped him once the four Aspect-Emperor books were published. The four books did not sell well and were published because there was a contract in place and it was cheaper to complete it than pay him out. Bakker was disillusioned and disgusted w the entire publishing process. He toyed w self-publishing but decide that was too much work. He focused on his academics and stopped writing fiction. Des[ite originally stating there was supposed to be a third series to complete the story, he has said that the end of THE UNHOLY CONSULT is 'the end' despite the cliffhanging.

amphibian, on 31 January 2024 - 08:24 PM, said:

I semi respect the rage quit, but he chose to write the books he did.

Some books don't make money, this series was that. It's not surprising, it was very unusual in a lot of ways and started (and ended) before social media picked it up.

worry, on 31 January 2024 - 09:56 PM, said:

It's a great downer 'middle-volume' ending, and is kind of hilarious if the decision to end it there is final I guess, but I do want more.

It's not inconceivable that a publisher could scoop up the rights to bks 1-7 then pay Bakker to keep going, but i suspect two things work against that...

1. Bakker himself - my sense of his very minimal responses and posts about this suggested he was verrrrrrry unhappy about the whole thing, and he had a whole other career to focus on. I've seen suggestions that there's a lot of ego at work too, take that as you will, i've never seen anything myself to support it, Bakker seems to be a very smart guy who doesn't dumb anything down for his audience, in books or in person.

2. Money - some speculation here, but the original trilo came in during a boom period where SIF and WoT were leading a charge that led to some fantasy authors getting big advances to complete multi book series. The PRINCE OF NOTHING trilo did well enough that it generated a second series that, i guess, Baker was still well paid for. My understanding is that those numbers do not happen any more. The market is nastier, the pay rate is lower, advances are minimal, and earn-out (when a book earns more than the advance and the author starts receiving cheques) is way way harder to reach and lower when it happens. Bakker would effectively have to take a huge pay cut to finish the series (that would be the case if he self-published too).

[worry]

All he needs is a big fat Sarah J. Maas rec on the cover. It doesn't even have to be the author, find a Sarah J. Maas in the phone book and have her say something nice.

[Abyss]

worry, on 01 February 2024 - 04:40 PM, said:

All he needs is a big fat Sarah J. Maas rec on the cover. It doesn't even have to be the author, find a Sarah J. Maas in the phone book and have her say something nice.

This would be worthwhile just for the resulting booktok headsplosion.

[Cause]

He could kickstart a book in moments but he apparently hates the idea.

I would pay him.

I have so many questions about heads on poles behind me. He must return

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Abyss, on 31 January 2024 - 04:55 PM, said:

To be clear, this is hearsay and conjecture assembled from partial facts and bits and pieces and social media, some of it from the author, some from other sources a few of which were close to him: The publisher dropped him once the four Aspect-Emperor books were published. The four books did not sell well and were published because there was a contract in place and it was cheaper to complete it than pay him out. Bakker was disillusioned and disgusted w the entire publishing process. He toyed w self-publishing but decide that was too much work. He focused on his academics and stopped writing fiction. Des[ite originally stating there was supposed to be a third series to complete the story, he has said that the end of THE UNHOLY CONSULT is 'the end' despite the cliffhanging.

He still hasn't published any academic work since 2019. Hasn't even posted to his philosophy blog since 2020. The last time you mentioned this I did a pretty thorough internet search and didn't find anything about him ever having a professorship anywhere, though his Wikipedia page claims (without providing a reference) that he is 'a frequent lecturer in the South Western Ontario university community'. It seems unlikely that that would constitute much of a career. Unless he's working on actually finishing his dissertation to have a better chance of getting a decent academic job---but I've found no indication of that.

Abyss, on 01 February 2024 - 03:42 PM, said:

1. Bakker himself - my sense of his very minimal responses and posts about this suggested he was verrrrrrry unhappy about the whole thing, and he had a whole other career to focus on. I've seen suggestions that there's a lot of ego at work too, take that as you will, i've never seen anything myself to support it, Bakker seems to be a very smart guy who doesn't dumb anything down for his audience, in books or in person.

Even if he's still doing university guest lectures---and actually getting paid for them---unless he's also traveling beyond Southern Ontario to deliver lectures for rich folks, it's probably not much of a 'career'. But I imagine he probably has some other other source of income he's focused on---outside of academia.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

So Bakker doesn't want to put in the time and effort it would take to finish the series and promote it.

But he almost certainly already has extensive notes and a good outline of the plots.

So AI could write a bunch drafts of it for him, in his style (or whoever's style---maybe it would do better with someone more widely imitated, or at least more prolific), and all he'd have to do is touch up the drafts a bit (sprinkles of qualia-beast poeticism...).

It would make sense for the

Spoiler

No-God

to author the end of the series, wouldn't it?...

[Tiste Simeon]

Contrary take: The Prince of Nothing is a terrible series and more people began to realise it so the sales dropped.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Tiste Simeon, on 01 February 2024 - 08:57 PM, said:

Contrary take: The Prince of Nothing is a terrible series and more people began to realise it so the sales dropped.

TPoN is a page-turner all the way through to the ending. TAE not so much---until the end...

I'd thought sales dropped off more after The Judging Eye (first book of TAE). Hmm, here are the Amazon sales rankings, fwiw:

second to last book of TPON #62,316


last book of TPoN #162,011

first book of TAE #128,196

second book of TAE #164,782

third book of TAE #139,161

last book of TAE #129,015

Huh. That does seem to suggest you might be right TS about the last book of TPON.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 01 February 2024 - 09:38 PM

[worry]

I felt the opposite -- Prince of Nothing didn't grab me too hard (though I liked it enough to finish, mostly for the character work), but Aspect Emperor was pitch perfect from start to end. I'm kinda shocked that people bounced off it more than the first trilogy, since it amps up the fantasy elements quite a bit.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

worry, on 01 February 2024 - 10:46 PM, said:

I felt the opposite -- Prince of Nothing didn't grab me too hard (though I liked it enough to finish, mostly for the character work), but Aspect Emperor was pitch perfect from start to end. I'm kinda shocked that people bounced off it more than the first trilogy, since it amps up the fantasy elements quite a bit.

Huh. Well I did find Kellhus extremely relatable in the first trilogy.

Whereas I'd suppose most people can relate more to Kelmomas...

(Kidding! ... or maybe not...)

TPoN is the only series I can think of where I wanted to find out what happened next so much that I switched from audiobook to ebook to go faster.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 02 February 2024 - 12:29 AM

[Abyss]

worry, on 01 February 2024 - 10:46 PM, said:

I felt the opposite -- Prince of Nothing didn't grab me too hard (though I liked it enough to finish, mostly for the character work), but Aspect Emperor was pitch perfect from start to end. I'm kinda shocked that people bounced off it more than the first trilogy, since it amps up the fantasy elements quite a bit.

Accurate but it also amps up the slog at a time when - my sense is - people were out w fantasy books that focused on characters walking from place to place.

I ack everything going on - and it is a LOT - but in the end TAE is a book about various groups walking to a big finale that can only possibly happen at the end of the last book. And then when it does, it cliffhangs so hard that Cliff Clavin riding Clifford the Big Red Dog atop the cliffs of Dover and eats a Clif Bar while a Cliff Williams guitar solo plays in the background could not cliff any cliffier. So on top of the offputting slog and cliffyness, the word-of-mouth wasn't exactly glowing.