[Tsundoku]

Finished The Paladin Caper. Excellent series, and I think it would work really well as a Netflix series. Probably 3 x 5-8 ep seasons.

[HoosierDaddy]

Trying to power through Grey Sister. I'm... not enthralled. Red Sister did that. Most of his books do that. This one? Not so much. I don't want to have to power through a book. Early stages though.

[QuickTidal]

HoosierDaddy, on 20 September 2018 - 04:57 PM, said:

Trying to power through Grey Sister. I'm... not enthralled. Red Sister did that. Most of his books do that. This one? Not so much. I don't want to have to power through a book. Early stages though.

GREY SISTER is a pretty big gear shift for the story, so I totally get that. The second half is a lot better than the first in that regard.

[Zetubal]

I've just finished the second book of Robert Jackson Bennett's Divine Cities trilogy. Here are my thoughts on the first novel, City of Stairs, and its sequel, City of Blades.

Right off the bat: I liked these books a lot. They're true pageturners that kept me enthralled for hours on end. I read them during my vacation while I was relaxing at the beach and these books were a constant companion, to the point where I had to really force myself to put them down occasionally and go for a swim in the Mediterranean. JB's style as a writer is very immediate, his prose is gripping, the characters are likable.

That said, I have some (minor) gripes with the series so far.

First and most aggravating among these is the world-building. I really dislike the fact that the world-building in these novels doesn't seem to have any "periphery" outside of the rather self-contained plots of these novels. What do I mean by that? Well, we only ever learn much about the history and culture of this world insofar as it is (or will be) immediately relevant to the story. The only conflicts we learn about are ones that play (or: will play) a role in deciphering the current events. To explain this, I have to spoil some events of the first two novels:

Spoiler

Most chapters in these books start with short snippets from "ancient texts" or books about the history of this fantasy world.

In one chapter in Book 1 we get a historical text about the three pet monsters of a God. One chapter later, one of those monsters shows up.

In book 2, there are many quotes by a famous inventor/engineer who went missing some decades ago. Of course, she shows up later in the novel.

Also in book 2, we get a lot of quotes from an ancient saint who... you guessed it...shows up later in person.

The problem with that is of a "meta" nature. I quickly caught on to the fact that JB only reports historical/cultural info, if it's crucial to the narrative of the novel. Subsequently, I could pretty much just assume that any event that is mentioned in passing will be a clue to the plot's resolution and any historical/mythical figure that is repeatedly mentioned is bound to show up in person at some point. First and foremost, this spoils some of the story for me. Nothing's really surprising at this point, and what's supposed to be a twist turns into a shrugging "ah, well, that's why I read all those snippets about XY before". What bothers me even more, though, is that I don't feel that this fantasy world is laid out before me organically. What I love about SE, for instance, is how much we learn about Wu, even when it's non-essential, inconsequential stuff to the story of his novels. This kind of world-building creates the illusion that there's a living, breathing world outside of the plot of his books, like there are actually other people in this world going about their business and dealing with their own shit. In JB's books, it feels like the world exists only inasmuch as it's relevant to the stories of the book.
This is compounded by the fact that there are very few named side characters who play their role and then simply fade out of the story at some point. If you're a named character in these books, you either die or stick around till the end (there are a handful of exceptions, of course. Hyperbole, eh). As a consequence, the foreshadowing as to who the enigmatic antagonists in both books are, is really, really bad.

Spoiler

In book 1, Shara sees a picture of Vohannes' family. It is explicitly mentioned that he has a brother who bears a striking resemblance to Vohannes, that he went missing (i.e. he's not dead), and he was a hardcore follower of the god who is very evidently supposed to be resurrected in the course of the novel. Later on, we get several sightings of "Vohannes" wherein he behaves oddly/erratically, dresses differently, generally seems up to no good etc. It is super, duper obvious that Vohannes' brother is behind the evil stuff in this book. Also, when he finally shows up, he's just a religious nutjob with some serious racist issues mixed in for good measure. And he gets killed like a little bitch.

In book 2 we learn early on that the evildoer is supposedly a small-ish woman. Since the series is obsessed with twist reveals, we know that it has to be an established/frequently mentioned character. Because the book's protagonist spends the better part of the novel believing the missing ministry agent to be the bad guy, we know that to be wrong (because twists, duh). Which leaves two characters, Thinadeshi and Rada. Thinadeshi is a philanthropist with no discernible motive, whereas Rada lives in a creepy Norman Bates house with taxidermized animals, she explicitly mentions that she had to suffer through the trauma of being trapped in a crushed building next to her dead family, she surrounds herself with death and frigging quotes a Voortyasthani saint when in conversation with the main character of the book. This is not only super obvious but it pissed me off to see how oblivious the main character is to this abundance of foreshadowing/hints.
Also, she dies like a bitch and her plan makes next to no sense to begin with.

Also, and this may sound a tad petty, I dislike the fact that there are no maps in these novels. Maps are a great way of creating the impression that there is a world in the periphery of the locations shown in the novels. The fact that there are none in these novels only adds to the impression, that there is no real world here. Also, I find myself slightly disoriented at times since the spatial relation between places is often somewhat unmentioned/ambiguous.

Next thing I sort of have gripes with is JB's inflationary use of twists, or rather, the "shocking moment of realization" the characters constantly have. It feels like every couple of pages someone realizes something that sends a chill down their spine, makes their heart skip a beat, makes them go pale, makes them say "ohmygawd", "What the hell...", "by the heavens" (in these novels: "by the seas"). It's like some anime trope shit where people gasp at the mention of the most mundane stuff. I usually like these moments, but if they are used in such abundance, they start to lose impact. Which is a pity.


Once again, let it be said that I really liked these novels. Mulagesh, Shara, Sigrud, and Vohannes are all great, fun characters, the action is fantastically described (with great standout moments in both novels), there are awesome cheesy one-liners and badass moments, I like the lore of this fantasy world, and even though the plots aren't that surprising, it's still very entertaining to read how the stories unfold.

I just find it a damn shame that there's so much room for improvement. These novels could have been stellar, outstanding things. If there's one great thing I take from them, it's that JB definitely has it in him to create a novel (series) on par with some of the greatest contemporary fantasy authors. Maybe his recently published novel marks the start of an even better series.

I think I'll also update my views on the cities series once I finish the final novel.

This post has been edited by Zetubal: 20 September 2018 - 09:14 PM

[Tiste Simeon]

That's quite a write up! Will check them out at some point.

[End of Disc One]

I definitely see what you mean about the world building. It's very Sanderson like (save maybe Stormlight), where every piece of worldbuilding is there to serve the plot, or vice versa. Also something big happened in the past, and what that is is a mystery.

I don't really see this type of worldbuilding as a flaw, although my favorites do have a living breathing world full of history, which may or may not give a shit about the characters in the story (Bakker, Erikson).

[Mentalist]

Finished "Delirium Brief" . It was indeed, quite good.

Next for commute, tomorrow I will (unsurprisingly) start Cook's last Instrumentalities of the Night book, "Working God's Mischief" .

[Maark Abbott]

I really like what Elliott is doing with In The Ruins:

Spoiler

Mankind living through a cataclysm of their own making

.

[Zetubal]

End of Disc One, on 20 September 2018 - 09:42 PM, said:

I don't really see this type of worldbuilding as a flaw, although my favorites do have a living breathing world full of history, which may or may not give a shit about the characters in the story (Bakker, Erikson).

I agree. It's not so much a flaw as it's just something I see could be improved upon to make the series really great instead of just entertaining. I guess I really have to check out Bakker at some point. Name gets dropped like constantly whenever I browse for new worthwhile reads.

This post has been edited by Zetubal: 21 September 2018 - 10:04 PM

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

Finished Cook's Port of Shadows. I wanted to like it more than I did, as the Black Company is my #1 all-time favorite. It was the strangest of all the Black Company novels, and I felt like Cook contorted the plot a good bit to explain why the story was never referenced in any of the previously published BC books.

I enjoyed good portions of it, especially past the 2/3 mark, but left it unsatisfied. The conclusions I drew about the identities and doings of

Spoiler

Dorotea and Credence Senjak, and how they relate to The Lady, Soulcatcher, and Tides Elba/Mischievous Rain

were sort of canon-busting.

And this is definitively the worst version of Croaker yet (but I loved Baku, Shin, and Ankou). Would love to discuss further in a dedthread.

On to Reynolds' Blue Remembered Earth.

This post has been edited by Whisperzzzzzzz: 21 September 2018 - 11:54 AM

[Macros]

Read the short story siege of tilpyur or whatever yesterday.

About Tamas as a grunt.
Great stuff again

[QuickTidal]

Finished Michael J. Sullivan's AGE OF WAR (book 3 of the Legends of the First Empire series), and was blown away. I loved the first book, had issues with the second (but still liked it), but I've been summarily destroyed by this one. Simply amazing. I cannot WAIT for the next one. More delving/spoiler-y details in the Ded-thread.

[Mentalist]

Completed "Return of the King". Quite good.

Moved on to " Silmarillion". Reading Tolkien's letter to the publisher outlining his works and mythos was helpful. Got through the intro works, just about to start the story proper.

The map sucks compared to the ones in LOTR, though.

[Mentalist]

So, one day later and I'm maybe like a third into the Silmarillion. Finding it far more readable this time around. I guess my problem the first 2 times was that I was still learning English then, and the slightly archaic dialogue was too much for someone new to the language to work through.

Also, flipping to the map all the time helps somewhat.

In commute, as I've been bussing around quite a lot this weekend I'm over halfway through "Working God's Mischief" , and it's good. It's a bit more scattershot than the previous entries, but you've got the Norse pantheon running around Europe, handing out magic powers and creating Jeanne d'Arcs because why not? So I'm still very much onboard.

This post has been edited by Mentalist: 29 September 2018 - 10:29 PM

[QuickTidal]

Mentalist, on 24 September 2018 - 02:34 PM, said:

So, one day later and I'm maybe like a third into the Silmarillion. Finding it far more readable this time around. I guess my problem the first 2 times was that I was still learning English then, and the slightly archaic dialogue was too much for someone new to the language to work through.

Also, flipping to the map all the time helps somewhat.

The only section which might trip you up (and you don't lose TOO much by skimming it as a result), is the one that's entirely about geography. Other than that, The Silmarillion rewards re-reads immensely!

[acesn8s]

A Blade of Black Steel isn't going as smoothly as I hoped. I'm a little more than 1/2 way done and I'm not really engaged. I'll finish the book, but I don't think I'll jump right into book 3. I started playing Witcher 3 (having never playing 1 or 2). I like the world and will probably pick up the books to read next.

This post has been edited by acesn8s: 26 September 2018 - 12:02 PM

[Mentalist]

QuickTidal, on 24 September 2018 - 03:05 PM, said:

Mentalist, on 24 September 2018 - 02:34 PM, said:

So, one day later and I'm maybe like a third into the Silmarillion. Finding it far more readable this time around. I guess my problem the first 2 times was that I was still learning English then, and the slightly archaic dialogue was too much for someone new to the language to work through.

Also, flipping to the map all the time helps somewhat.

The only section which might trip you up (and you don't lose TOO much by skimming it as a result), is the one that's entirely about geography. Other than that, The Silmarillion rewards re-reads immensely!

Nope, I love maps, so that section was pretty great.

[QuickTidal]

Mentalist, on 24 September 2018 - 06:42 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 24 September 2018 - 03:05 PM, said:

Mentalist, on 24 September 2018 - 02:34 PM, said:

So, one day later and I'm maybe like a third into the Silmarillion. Finding it far more readable this time around. I guess my problem the first 2 times was that I was still learning English then, and the slightly archaic dialogue was too much for someone new to the language to work through.

Also, flipping to the map all the time helps somewhat.

The only section which might trip you up (and you don't lose TOO much by skimming it as a result), is the one that's entirely about geography. Other than that, The Silmarillion rewards re-reads immensely!

Nope, I love maps, so that section was pretty great.

Ah, well there you go!

[QuickTidal]

Decided on a Sullivan Riyria re-read after finishing book 3 of the ancient-world prequel, Almost through THE CROWN CONSPIRACY (sorry, I don't have the Orbit Omnibuses as I collected these before that...but 1st half of THEFT OF SWORDS) and I'm noticing SO MANY things I never would have noticed the first time I read. Also, reading about how the elves are treated in Hadrian & Royce's day is REALLY put into context by the events of 3000 years previous. Like heaps and buckets of context that makes you see them entirely differently. Amazing world building on Sullivan's part.

[Tsundoku]

Giving Feist's King of Ashes a go.

About 1/3 or so in and it seems pretty generic and low-magic so far. The only magic I've seen is his attempt to humanise gingers.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 26 September 2018 - 07:55 AM