[Andorion]

Salt-Man Z, on 06 July 2017 - 01:03 PM, said:

Andorion, on 06 July 2017 - 04:18 AM, said:

So which authors am I missing?

Donaldson? Terry Brooks?

Well, yes, you're obviously missing both of these. Donaldson and Brooks together are responsible for kickstarting the current epic fantasy genre, having launched their series with Tor at the same time in 1977. Outside of Tolkien and maybe GRRM, they might be the most important names in the genre.

I can't personally recommend Brooks, but Donaldson's stuff is amazing. Not just the 10 Covenant books (which are fantastic), but his "Mordant's Need" fantasy duology, and the 5-book sci-fi Gap Cycle. (He's also got some murder mysteries, a couple short story collections and novellas, as well.)

You need to read more Glen Cook, too. Finish the Black Company books. Then you've got the Garrett P.I. mysteries, the Dread Empire series, and like a billion other minor series and standalones.

I have always hesitated with Donaldson as his work seems to be quite divisive.

Agreed on Cook. I have him noted as "Read after Bakker" so later this years. I will finish the Black Company books and decide on what to read next.

Mentalist, on 06 July 2017 - 01:24 PM, said:

Paul Kearney, David Abraham.

If you want to go old-school, there's also the Weis & Hickman duo.

Kearney is on my TBR.

Ment, did you mean Daniel Abraham? Because I have read Dagger and Coin.

As for Weis and Hickman I have read the first book of the Deathgate Cycle which I quite liked.

[Mentalist]

Andorion, on 06 July 2017 - 01:44 PM, said:

Salt-Man Z, on 06 July 2017 - 01:03 PM, said:

Andorion, on 06 July 2017 - 04:18 AM, said:

So which authors am I missing?

Donaldson? Terry Brooks?

Well, yes, you're obviously missing both of these. Donaldson and Brooks together are responsible for kickstarting the current epic fantasy genre, having launched their series with Tor at the same time in 1977. Outside of Tolkien and maybe GRRM, they might be the most important names in the genre.

I can't personally recommend Brooks, but Donaldson's stuff is amazing. Not just the 10 Covenant books (which are fantastic), but his "Mordant's Need" fantasy duology, and the 5-book sci-fi Gap Cycle. (He's also got some murder mysteries, a couple short story collections and novellas, as well.)

You need to read more Glen Cook, too. Finish the Black Company books. Then you've got the Garrett P.I. mysteries, the Dread Empire series, and like a billion other minor series and standalones.

I have always hesitated with Donaldson as his work seems to be quite divisive.

Agreed on Cook. I have him noted as "Read after Bakker" so later this years. I will finish the Black Company books and decide on what to read next.

Mentalist, on 06 July 2017 - 01:24 PM, said:

Paul Kearney, David Abraham.

If you want to go old-school, there's also the Weis & Hickman duo.

Kearney is on my TBR.

Ment, did you mean Daniel Abraham? Because I have read Dagger and Coin.

As for Weis and Hickman I have read the first book of the Deathgate Cycle which I quite liked.

Yes, Daniel Abraham. Morning ment is error-prone ment. Read his earlier quartet.

Deathgate are my favourite. Darksword's an OK trilo with a single follow-up, and "Rose of the Prophet" is more formulaic but goes for a desert setting which isn't often done.

[polishgenius]

So the last couple of days I read The Court of Broken Knives by Anna Smith Spark, a debut that came out last week. I was a little hesitant starting it given that I'd just finished my reread of Memories of Ice, wihch is a hard act to follow obviously, and even moreso when the writing felt quite finnicky near the start in parts... but I'm glad I stuck to it because it's turned out to be really, really good. Very nicely written once the author hits her groove, and the characters are excellently drawn. Fucking dark, mind you, all the more effectively so because it's not dark all the time.

If you're looking for a bit of, well, grimdark (wince), it'll hit the spot. As good a debut as Prince of Thorns, possibly.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

211 pages into The Curse of the Mistwraith.

Compared to Wurts' Empire books, the prose in this one feels extremely overwrought. On the one hand, it's detailed and immersive(ish). On the other hand, it's been 211 pages and it feels like nothing has happened (except a journey designed solely to provide time for worldbuilding).

Does it become better as it continues?

[Andorion]

Whisperzzzzzzz, on 06 July 2017 - 04:22 PM, said:

211 pages into The Curse of the Mistwraith.

Compared to Wurts' Empire books, the prose in this one feels extremely overwrought. On the one hand, it's detailed and immersive(ish). On the other hand, it's been 211 pages and it feels like nothing has happened (except a journey designed solely to provide time for worldbuilding).

Does it become better as it continues?

The language does not change, I kind of got used to it.

Mistwraith is 100% setup. So not a lot will happen. Some things happen, but their importance only becomes evident later. Things happen from Book2 and continue happening. Its a very eventful series.

[Slow Ben]

Briar King, on 06 July 2017 - 04:42 PM, said:

Copying the cover for Ando of Keyes's The Briar King

Two thousand years ago, the Born Queen defeated the Skasloi lords, freeing humans from the bitter yoke of slavery. But now monstrous creatures roam the land—and destinies become inextricably entangled in a drama of power and seduction. The king's woodsman, a rebellious girl, a young priest, a roguish adventurer, and a young man made suddenly into a knight—all face malevolent forces that shake the foundations of the kingdom, even as the Briar King, legendary harbinger of death, awakens from his slumber. At the heart of this many-layered tale is Anne Dare, youngest daughter of the royal family . . . upon whom the fate of her world may depend.

I read this years ago, and i remember literally nothing about it. Kinda weird actually.

[Salt-Man Z]

Andorion, on 06 July 2017 - 01:44 PM, said:

I have always hesitated with Donaldson as his work seems to be quite divisive.

Among fantasy fans in general, yes. But I'm not sure a complaint about Donaldson exists that hasn't also been leveled at Erikson; if you've made it through all 10 MBotF books and enjoyed them all, I don't think there's anything in the 10 Covenant books that will put you off. (And to be honest, I think SRD's 10 series tells a tighter, more cohesive single story than SE does.)

If you're still hesitant, I always recommend the Mordant's Need duology, which besides being very good, captures the essence of SRD quite well.

[Andorion]

Briar King, on 06 July 2017 - 04:42 PM, said:

Copying the cover for Ando of Keyes's The Briar King

Two thousand years ago, the Born Queen defeated the Skasloi lords, freeing humans from the bitter yoke of slavery. But now monstrous creatures roam the land—and destinies become inextricably entangled in a drama of power and seduction. The king's woodsman, a rebellious girl, a young priest, a roguish adventurer, and a young man made suddenly into a knight—all face malevolent forces that shake the foundations of the kingdom, even as the Briar King, legendary harbinger of death, awakens from his slumber. At the heart of this many-layered tale is Anne Dare, youngest daughter of the royal family . . . upon whom the fate of her world may depend.

Seems interesting. A bit sword and sorceryish, or would you say more like Tad Williams?

Also I now remember I have read at least one book by Greg Keyes from his Empire of Unreason series, and I really liked the style.

[Gabriele]

Andorion, on 06 July 2017 - 08:39 AM, said:

worry, on 06 July 2017 - 05:21 AM, said:

These aren't recommendations per se, just major names/series:

Raymond Feist
Kate Elliott
David Eddings
Jaqueline Carey
Gene Wolfe

Raymond Feist - ah yes, the only one who competes with Terry Brooks in terms of volume. Read Magician, loved it, will eventually read the rest, I suppose, though I have heard the series becomes average very fast.

Kate Elliott - read Black Wolves, loved it, will read more.

Eddings - read all of Eddings

Carey - Not at all sure about the Kushiel books, I thought they were fantasy erotica?

Gene Wolfe - read Book of the New Sun, liked it.

Average is an overstatement for the latter Raymond Feist books. Magician is fun, the two sequels Silver Thorn and Darkness at Sethannon are pretty ok, the pirate duology that follows them is readable, but I'd stop after that.

The Kushiel books are pretty epic, with lots of political intrigues and even some battles, seen from the POV of a s/m courtesan. So yes, there is a bit more sex than in your average Fantasy book, but it fits in naturally and is often portrayed as positive and fun (though the darker aspects of non consnsual sex are not ignored, either). The Imriel trilogy which follows it is third person POV and a bit darker. It's still a good read but I missed Phèdre's voice. The Fantasy elements are on the low scale. The world is an alternate version of Renaissance Europe - with a few people like the Skaldi who are more Medieaval - with a religion that has a much healthier attitude to sex than the Christian one, but still all the polical fun.

All of Eddings? You're brave. I gave up at Althalus.

Kate Eliot's Crown of Stars was interesting, though I could have killed Liath more than once for being so stupid. But she's only one of many characters (and I could have killed Sansa for the same reasom )-

[Andorion]

Gabriele, on 06 July 2017 - 05:11 PM, said:

Andorion, on 06 July 2017 - 08:39 AM, said:

worry, on 06 July 2017 - 05:21 AM, said:

These aren't recommendations per se, just major names/series:

Raymond Feist
Kate Elliott
David Eddings
Jaqueline Carey
Gene Wolfe

Raymond Feist - ah yes, the only one who competes with Terry Brooks in terms of volume. Read Magician, loved it, will eventually read the rest, I suppose, though I have heard the series becomes average very fast.

Kate Elliott - read Black Wolves, loved it, will read more.

Eddings - read all of Eddings

Carey - Not at all sure about the Kushiel books, I thought they were fantasy erotica?

Gene Wolfe - read Book of the New Sun, liked it.

Average is an overstatement for the latter Raymond Feist books. Magician is fun, the two sequels Silver Thorn and Darkness at Sethannon are pretty ok, the pirate duology that follows them is readable, but I'd stop after that.

The Kushiel books are pretty epic, with lots of political intrigues and even some battles, seen from the POV of a s/m courtesan. So yes, there is a bit more sex than in your average Fantasy book, but it fits in naturally and is often portrayed as positive and fun (though the darker aspects of non consnsual sex are not ignored, either). The Imriel trilogy which follows it is third person POV and a bit darker. It's still a good read but I missed Phèdre's voice. The Fantasy elements are on the low scale. The world is an alternate version of Renaissance Europe - with a few people like the Skaldi who are more Medieaval - with a religion that has a much healthier attitude to sex than the Christian one, but still all the polical fun.

All of Eddings? You're brave. I gave up at Althalus.

Kate Eliot's Crown of Stars was interesting, though I could have killed Liath more than once for being so stupid. But she's only one of many characters (and I could have killed Sansa for the same reasom )-

I actually didn't try Althalus. Stopped at Tamuli.

I was wondering which Kate Elliott Series would be a good idea to tackle first. She has a lot.

Kushiel,,,, a different take on sexuality would be interesting. Maybe something to read when I get bored of the usual stuff.

[Andorion]

Briar King, on 06 July 2017 - 05:12 PM, said:

Andorion, on 06 July 2017 - 05:05 PM, said:

Seems interesting. A bit sword and sorceryish, or would you say more like Tad Williams?

Also I now remember I have read at least one book by Greg Keyes from his Empire of Unreason series, and I really liked the style.

Williams is a very good comparison with a very very small bit of GoT. Try it out.

I will BK, but this question was posed more to work out the structure of my fantasy longlist. I was principally worried over what I would follow up Bakker with. I have gotten a lot of input, and will now make a list.

My shortlist is rather different.

Speaking of which, with the third Sanderson SLA coming out in November will you be rereading the first two?

[Macros]

Regarding Feist, I would massively change the reading volume reco

Read the first trilogy, the empire trilogy, Honoured Enemy (his best book), the princes duology, the kronor betrayal/assassins and then the first three books of the serpent war. Then stop. And never return to Midkemia at a point chronologically after that.

[Macros]

God dammit.
Big post.
Phone ate it.

Feist -

Disregard earlier advice, read, in this order:
Magician, Silverthorn, A darkness at Sethanon, Daughter of the Empire, Seventh of the empire, mistress of the empire, Honoured Enemy (his best book), Prince of the Blood, The Kings Buchaneer, Kronor the Betrayal, Kronor Assassins (the Kronor books order may be reversed), Shadow of a Dark Queen, Rise of a Merchant Prince, Rage of a Demon King.
Then stop and never return to Midkemia, unless it's for retreads.

[Gabriele]

Andorion, on 06 July 2017 - 06:17 PM, said:

Gabriele, on 06 July 2017 - 05:11 PM, said:

Andorion, on 06 July 2017 - 08:39 AM, said:

worry, on 06 July 2017 - 05:21 AM, said:

These aren't recommendations per se, just major names/series:

Raymond Feist
Kate Elliott
David Eddings
Jaqueline Carey
Gene Wolfe

Raymond Feist - ah yes, the only one who competes with Terry Brooks in terms of volume. Read Magician, loved it, will eventually read the rest, I suppose, though I have heard the series becomes average very fast.

Kate Elliott - read Black Wolves, loved it, will read more.

Eddings - read all of Eddings

Carey - Not at all sure about the Kushiel books, I thought they were fantasy erotica?

Gene Wolfe - read Book of the New Sun, liked it.

Average is an overstatement for the latter Raymond Feist books. Magician is fun, the two sequels Silver Thorn and Darkness at Sethannon are pretty ok, the pirate duology that follows them is readable, but I'd stop after that.

The Kushiel books are pretty epic, with lots of political intrigues and even some battles, seen from the POV of a s/m courtesan. So yes, there is a bit more sex than in your average Fantasy book, but it fits in naturally and is often portrayed as positive and fun (though the darker aspects of non consnsual sex are not ignored, either). The Imriel trilogy which follows it is third person POV and a bit darker. It's still a good read but I missed Phèdre's voice. The Fantasy elements are on the low scale. The world is an alternate version of Renaissance Europe - with a few people like the Skaldi who are more Medieaval - with a religion that has a much healthier attitude to sex than the Christian one, but still all the polical fun.

All of Eddings? You're brave. I gave up at Althalus.

Kate Eliot's Crown of Stars was interesting, though I could have killed Liath more than once for being so stupid. But she's only one of many characters (and I could have killed Sansa for the same reasom )-

I actually didn't try Althalus. Stopped at Tamuli.

I was wondering which Kate Elliott Series would be a good idea to tackle first. She has a lot.

Kushiel,,,, a different take on sexuality would be interesting. Maybe something to read when I get bored of the usual stuff.

Eddings wrote another 4 or 5 book series after Althalus, but in sorta went under the radar of most readers. I never went near it.

Kate Elliott' Crown of Stars is her longest, 7 books and finished. The setting is an alternate early Mediaeval Europe with a sort of Elves (the Eika) with some of the serial numbers filed off, a church with gender equality, a migrating royal court like it was a the time .... I overall liked them though I had some problems with the female MC. Fortunately, there is a rather large set of characters, and there were others I liked to follow around.

Her Spiritwalker trilogy has an interesting premisse. Elliott called it an "Afro-Celtic post-Roman icepunk fantasy adventure, with Phoenician spies, revolution, and lawyer dinosaurs". I'm torn about tackling it - the idea sounds wonderful, but the books are written from a female first person POV, and after the problems I had with Liath (and some other female characters) in Crown of Stars, I'm not sure I would like the narrator.

Her Jaran books are earlier, and Court of Fives is YA. Here is her own take on what to read: http://www.imakeupwo...vels/#more-2302

Try the Kushiel books. The first, Kushiel's Dart, is sorta self contained, so if you don't like it, you'll still get a sort of closure. If you do like it .... well, there is never an end to political machinations for a natural continuation and two more volumes in the first trilogy. Also, someone escaped.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

Andorion, on 06 July 2017 - 04:44 PM, said:

Whisperzzzzzzz, on 06 July 2017 - 04:22 PM, said:

211 pages into The Curse of the Mistwraith.

Compared to Wurts' Empire books, the prose in this one feels extremely overwrought. On the one hand, it's detailed and immersive(ish). On the other hand, it's been 211 pages and it feels like nothing has happened (except a journey designed solely to provide time for worldbuilding).

Does it become better as it continues?

The language does not change, I kind of got used to it.

Mistwraith is 100% setup. So not a lot will happen. Some things happen, but their importance only becomes evident later. Things happen from Book2 and continue happening. Its a very eventful series.

Good to know. Will keep on keeping on.

[Dolmen 2.0]

I'm reading book one of the Bas-lag trilogy, perdido station and I have to say I have never read anything as unique yet wholistic in my entire life. Not really fitting into a Genre. The scope of new Chrobason is both immensely intricitate yet relatable. I'm close to the end and I'm so pleased to find my favorite character in this book is a 4th dimensional giant arachnid psychopathic aesthetist.

This post has been edited by Dolmen 2.0: 07 July 2017 - 12:06 PM

[Abyss]

Dolmen 2.0, on 07 July 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:

I'm reading book one of the Bas-lag trilogy, perdido station and I have to say I have never read anything as unique yet wholistic in my entire life. Not really fitting into a Genre. The scope of new Chrobason is both immensely intricitate yet relatable. I'm close to the end and I'm so pleased to find my favorite character in this book is a 4th dimensional giant arachnid psychopathic aesthetist.

Great book, one of my favorite settings in genre lit (tho book 2 has THE favorite).

Remember a Slake Moth is for life, not just for Christmas.

[Andorion]

Macros, on 07 July 2017 - 07:54 AM, said:

God dammit.
Big post.
Phone ate it.

Feist -

Disregard earlier advice, read, in this order:
Magician, Silverthorn, A darkness at Sethanon, Daughter of the Empire, Seventh of the empire, mistress of the empire, Honoured Enemy (his best book), Prince of the Blood, The Kings Buchaneer, Kronor the Betrayal, Kronor Assassins (the Kronor books order may be reversed), Shadow of a Dark Queen, Rise of a Merchant Prince, Rage of a Demon King.
Then stop and never return to Midkemia, unless it's for retreads.

Thanks for this, I will be saving this post. I know you did a readthrough recently.

Also I note that you are essentially telling me to skip Chaoswar, Demonwar and Conclave. Bad, average, or filler?

[Andorion]

Gabriele, on 07 July 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:

Andorion, on 06 July 2017 - 06:17 PM, said:

Gabriele, on 06 July 2017 - 05:11 PM, said:

Andorion, on 06 July 2017 - 08:39 AM, said:

worry, on 06 July 2017 - 05:21 AM, said:

These aren't recommendations per se, just major names/series:

Raymond Feist
Kate Elliott
David Eddings
Jaqueline Carey
Gene Wolfe

Raymond Feist - ah yes, the only one who competes with Terry Brooks in terms of volume. Read Magician, loved it, will eventually read the rest, I suppose, though I have heard the series becomes average very fast.

Kate Elliott - read Black Wolves, loved it, will read more.

Eddings - read all of Eddings

Carey - Not at all sure about the Kushiel books, I thought they were fantasy erotica?

Gene Wolfe - read Book of the New Sun, liked it.

Average is an overstatement for the latter Raymond Feist books. Magician is fun, the two sequels Silver Thorn and Darkness at Sethannon are pretty ok, the pirate duology that follows them is readable, but I'd stop after that.

The Kushiel books are pretty epic, with lots of political intrigues and even some battles, seen from the POV of a s/m courtesan. So yes, there is a bit more sex than in your average Fantasy book, but it fits in naturally and is often portrayed as positive and fun (though the darker aspects of non consnsual sex are not ignored, either). The Imriel trilogy which follows it is third person POV and a bit darker. It's still a good read but I missed Phèdre's voice. The Fantasy elements are on the low scale. The world is an alternate version of Renaissance Europe - with a few people like the Skaldi who are more Medieaval - with a religion that has a much healthier attitude to sex than the Christian one, but still all the polical fun.

All of Eddings? You're brave. I gave up at Althalus.

Kate Eliot's Crown of Stars was interesting, though I could have killed Liath more than once for being so stupid. But she's only one of many characters (and I could have killed Sansa for the same reasom )-

I actually didn't try Althalus. Stopped at Tamuli.

I was wondering which Kate Elliott Series would be a good idea to tackle first. She has a lot.

Kushiel,,,, a different take on sexuality would be interesting. Maybe something to read when I get bored of the usual stuff.

Eddings wrote another 4 or 5 book series after Althalus, but in sorta went under the radar of most readers. I never went near it.

Kate Elliott' Crown of Stars is her longest, 7 books and finished. The setting is an alternate early Mediaeval Europe with a sort of Elves (the Eika) with some of the serial numbers filed off, a church with gender equality, a migrating royal court like it was a the time .... I overall liked them though I had some problems with the female MC. Fortunately, there is a rather large set of characters, and there were others I liked to follow around.

Her Spiritwalker trilogy has an interesting premisse. Elliott called it an "Afro-Celtic post-Roman icepunk fantasy adventure, with Phoenician spies, revolution, and lawyer dinosaurs". I'm torn about tackling it - the idea sounds wonderful, but the books are written from a female first person POV, and after the problems I had with Liath (and some other female characters) in Crown of Stars, I'm not sure I would like the narrator.

Her Jaran books are earlier, and Court of Fives is YA. Here is her own take on what to read: http://www.imakeupwo...vels/#more-2302

Try the Kushiel books. The first, Kushiel's Dart, is sorta self contained, so if you don't like it, you'll still get a sort of closure. If you do like it .... well, there is never an end to political machinations for a natural continuation and two more volumes in the first trilogy. Also, someone escaped.

Regarding Kate Elliott's female PoVs, the only Elliott I read, Black Wolves had a female PoV and it was quite excellent actually.

I did not know that about Eddings. I suppose they must have been really low profile.

[Hammerhead88]

Just thinking about how much I still have left to read from following this thread regularly makes my head hurt.




In a good way, of course!