[EmperorMagus]

@Mentalist

I've generally avoided Stross because his sexual politics thing tends to extremely piss me off in every single book he write.

I tried to read his Merchant's princess, the first couple of book were fine (and I actually read them over the weekend). The third book extremely pissed me off, other than the fact that it was boring, the confinement part and the Clan's expectations/ treatment of Miriam had me in an adrenalin induced rage (and I'm not kidding, my hands were shaking at the end of the 3rd book)

In the 4th book

Spoiler

I just got to the artificial insemination part, and unless you tell me Miriam resolves this by nukes, I'm not continuing on.

I get it that Charlie Stross likes sex, and I don't mind it when writers use sex in their books for most reasons. (from the way Martin uses it to Hamilton to Morgan to GGK)

But the way Stross's characters are always defined by their sexes and sexual orientations is extremely off putting to me. (Accelerando, Singularity Sky, now this)

[Mentalist]

EmperorMagus, on 06 April 2016 - 06:25 AM, said:

@Mentalist

I've generally avoided Stross because his sexual politics thing tends to extremely piss me off in every single book he write.

I tried to read his Merchant's princess, the first couple of book were fine (and I actually read them over the weekend). The third book extremely pissed me off, other than the fact that it was boring, the confinement part and the Clan's expectations/ treatment of Miriam had me in an adrenalin induced rage (and I'm not kidding, my hands were shaking at the end of the 3rd book)

In the 4th book

Spoiler

I just got to the artificial insemination part, and unless you tell me Miriam resolves this by nukes, I'm not continuing on.

I get it that Charlie Stross likes sex, and I don't mind it when writers use sex in their books for most reasons. (from the way Martin uses it to Hamilton to Morgan to GGK)

But the way Stross's characters are always defined by their sexes and sexual orientations is extremely off putting to me. (Accelerando, Singularity Sky, now this)

Given the settin of Merchant Princes, the dynastic element and the gender politics was a bit of a given. I felt that throughout throughout the entire second omnibus (I read them as such, so Bks 3 and 4 were combined into one without a "break") Miriam really took a backseat allowing other characters to emerge and carry th story.
Re: your spoilered: finish Bk4. If the convergence in the end doesn't keep you interested... well, there's no accounting for taste but things ramp up drastically. And yes, there'll be plenty of nukes, and plenty of come-uppance.

Granted, I came into "Merchant Princes with no prior Stross except Laundry. Still, Miriam's not the only star of the show, and I actually felt the bulk of the cast were strong, capable females- Miriam's treatment notwithstanding that's still the case.

ETA: and if you think the spoilered thing makes Miriam somehow less of a player, you're definitely wrong. Actually, that thing, despicable as it is, launches a whole other angle to the story. RAFO to the end of book 4 before you make up your mind on abandoning the series.

This post has been edited by Mentalist: 06 April 2016 - 02:03 PM

[QuickTidal]

I don't read Stross for other reasons. His seeming support of a disastrously vile troll in the SFF community. The day he did that was the day I signed off ever reading his work. Not sorry Charlie.

[Abyss]

EmperorMagus, on 06 April 2016 - 06:25 AM, said:

...
But the way Stross's characters are always defined by their sexes and sexual orientations is extremely off putting to me. (Accelerando, ...

I didn't enjoy Accelerando, but on this point I'm not sure you read the same book I did.

[Morgoth]

I recently finished The Three Body Problem, and was not taken by it. I'm not sure if I'll buy the rest of the trilogy or not.

Mentalist, on 04 April 2016 - 04:54 PM, said:

Andorion, on 04 April 2016 - 04:05 PM, said:

Mentalist, on 04 April 2016 - 03:57 PM, said:

I have a few series I bought in my early book-buying days that I'd hesitate to re-read now. I'm seriously considering donating them to the library, just so that I never have a sick urge to re-read them myself. Also to free up shelf space.

Library donations are usually a good idea unless you know an interested kid maybe?

Out of curiosity, which books?

Keys of power trilo, John Marko's "tyrants and Kings" trilo. S.L. Farrel's first cloudmages book, Russel Kirkpatrick's "Across the face of the world". Ian Irvine "Shadow in the Glass".
In the maybe pile are Mark C Newton's "Nights of Villjamur", Peter Orullian's "The Unremebered", and David Anthony Durham's "Acacia". All 3 are first books of series I felt were not very good and I don't think I'm likely to pursue, unless I can find them REALLY cheap.

I am in somewhat of a minority for thinking that Nights of Viljamur was terrible. My advise is to find something worth reading.

Chance, on 05 April 2016 - 02:15 PM, said:

Went through the Annhilation Score and while it gripped my interest it was the least entertaining Laundry book yet, probably largly because after the tenth page about administration rather then adventure it gets grating. The only thing saving it from being a total loss was occational brilliant secondary characters, but a remarkably dull book for a Lundary style superhero novel.

There was that one scene with the scientist in the loft though.

This post has been edited by Morgoth: 07 April 2016 - 07:53 AM

[Baco Xtath]

Morgoth, on 07 April 2016 - 07:52 AM, said:

I recently finished The Three Body Problem, and was not taken by it. I'm not sure if I'll buy the rest of the trilogy or not.

The second book is much better. It's completely different and mind-blowing. The third isn't out yet here but I'll definitely check it out when it releases.

Just finished N.K. Jemisin's Killing Moon. Really good stuff. Similar in style to the Hundred Thousand Kingdoms. Didn't like it as much as her other series but still it was very enjoyable. Also started the Traitor Baru. 2 hrs in and not really feeling it. Downloaded the audible of the Reality Dysfunction last night so I'm pretty pumped about starting that.

Reading Hard Luck Hank: Basketful of Crap. It keeps me smiling.

[QuickTidal]

Started THE BONE LABYRINTH by James Rollins which is the 11th Sigma Force novel. So far it's scads better than the last entry (The 6TH EXTINCTION) which I thought fell a bit short of his usual skill.

[Andorion]

QuickTidal, on 07 April 2016 - 12:43 PM, said:

Started THE BONE LABYRINTH by James Rollins which is the 11th Sigma Force novel. So far it's scads better than the last entry (The 6TH EXTINCTION) which I thought fell a bit short of his usual skill.

I have read all the Rollins standalones which I thoroughly enjoyed due to his tendency to put weird creatures in them. How would you rate the Sigma Force series?

[QuickTidal]

Andorion, on 07 April 2016 - 01:08 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 07 April 2016 - 12:43 PM, said:

Started THE BONE LABYRINTH by James Rollins which is the 11th Sigma Force novel. So far it's scads better than the last entry (The 6TH EXTINCTION) which I thought fell a bit short of his usual skill.

I have read all the Rollins standalones which I thoroughly enjoyed due to his tendency to put weird creatures in them. How would you rate the Sigma Force series?

Sigma is overall pretty damned great. They CAN be hit and miss.

Tho Abyss and I differ on the ratings, I'm pretty much like this:

MAP OF BONES - Excellent, my top pick.

BLACK ORDER - Also excellent.

THE JUDAS STRAIN - Excellent, my second fave.

THE LAST ORACLE - Okay. A bit of a stumble, but still quite decent.

THE DOOMSDAY KEY - Great! Return to form after stumbling with ORACLE.

THE DEVIL COLONY - Meh. This one focuses on the lost US colony of Roanoke...and as such it was largely boring to me.

BLOODLINE - This one is hit and miss within its own narrative. It's got great bits and terrible bits. His research in this one is also a BIT off, and one glaring plothole I hated.

THE EYE OF GOD - Lukewarm on this one.

THE 6TH EXTINCTION - Decent, but large parts of the subject matter didn't interest me as much, and the Sigma team seems to only be along for the ride as opposed to in control, and that bugged me.

THE BONE LABYRINTH - So far its excellent. about 1/4 through and already it feel closer to the best books than the worst.

[Andorion]

QuickTidal, on 07 April 2016 - 01:28 PM, said:

Andorion, on 07 April 2016 - 01:08 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 07 April 2016 - 12:43 PM, said:

Started THE BONE LABYRINTH by James Rollins which is the 11th Sigma Force novel. So far it's scads better than the last entry (The 6TH EXTINCTION) which I thought fell a bit short of his usual skill.

I have read all the Rollins standalones which I thoroughly enjoyed due to his tendency to put weird creatures in them. How would you rate the Sigma Force series?

Sigma is overall pretty damned great. They CAN be hit and miss.

Tho Abyss and I differ on the ratings, I'm pretty much like this:

MAP OF BONES - Excellent, my top pick.

BLACK ORDER - Also excellent.

THE JUDAS STRAIN - Excellent, my second fave.

THE LAST ORACLE - Okay. A bit of a stumble, but still quite decent.

THE DOOMSDAY KEY - Great! Return to form after stumbling with ORACLE.

THE DEVIL COLONY - Meh. This one focuses on the lost US colony of Roanoke...and as such it was largely boring to me.

BLOODLINE - This one is hit and miss within its own narrative. It's got great bits and terrible bits. His research in this one is also a BIT off, and one glaring plothole I hated.

THE EYE OF GOD - Lukewarm on this one.

THE 6TH EXTINCTION - Decent, but large parts of the subject matter didn't interest me as much, and the Sigma team seems to only be along for the ride as opposed to in control, and that bugged me.

THE BONE LABYRINTH - So far its excellent. about 1/4 through and already it feel closer to the best books than the worst.

Okkk so generally favourable. This series seems like special forces archaeology to me. Reminds me of Matthew Reilly.

Would you say they are good for lighter reading between heavier stuff? I have Bakker on my TBR for this year.

Also, referencing the Atwood thing, your point about pretentiousness rings a bell. Essentially I was recommended Atwood as part of a larger list of SF books and those books were not really as good as advertised. So I am a bit sceptical of Oryx and Crake

[QuickTidal]

They are lighter, and scads better than Reilly is. But the same sort of milieu for sure; Science Action Team Archeology. You might call them airport thrillers. So yeah, they are great for in between heavier books.

[Chance]

Finished up Those Above by Daniel Polansky in more or less a single go, for a setup book it was good even great on occation. He's got a real talent for putting in the disturbing and gritty details which this series seems to share with his earlier. It is very nice when an author goes out of his way to resonably inventively use very none standard heroes for his PoV's.

After that talk about a new Sigma Force above perhaps Bone Labyrinth next at the same time a few of the later novels have been so-so at best. Also attempting to get back into the habit of reading some serious works of medieval history after reading more or less nothing of the kind for a while but Those Above gave me a serious urge to delve back into East Roman and Crusade era historical material.

This post has been edited by Chance: 07 April 2016 - 03:09 PM

[Abyss]

Andorion, on 07 April 2016 - 02:28 PM, said:

Okkk so generally favourable. This series seems like special forces archaeology to me. Reminds me of Matthew Reilly.

Would you say they are good for lighter reading between heavier stuff? I have Bakker on my TBR for this year.
...

'Commando scientists', heavy on the archeology/history, better written and less over-the-top than Reilly.

Pretty much perfect lighter reading, but lighter reading that makes you feel like you learned something.

I paused the series after reading JUDAS mostly because it utterly resembled various thrillers I had read before, but that's more a function of my reading history than a critique of the series, which overall is good fun, minus one plotline that just left me actively hoping the protags would lose and die so the author could never feel the need to write about them ever again. I expect I'll go back to the series eventually.

[Mentalist]

Sigma Force starts with "Sandstorm", right?

I read it a bunch of years ago (had a friend of my mom's lend it to me), but didn't think much of it.

[Salt-Man Z]

So I finished Dancer's Lament. Easily ICE's best. I didn't particularly care for any of the characters, didn't feel compelled to know "What happens next?" but it was never boring. Nicely focused, and no obfuscation! (Amazing!) An excellent start to the trilogy.

I'm also in the middle of Conrad's Heart of Darkness on ebook. I was supposed to read this in high school, but never did. I'm not sure how I would have fared in any case: It starts with a boring frame story that I just about bounced off of, and the book ends up being someone telling a story about someone telling a story. Guh. Thankfully, once it gets going, Marlow's narration gets this hypnotic quality to it that's oddly compelling. Unfortunately, I'm reading it at work during lunch or whatever in short bursts, which makes it hard to get back into each time.

Last night I started in on The Library at Mount Char. Wow. It's...kinda crazy. And I can't put it down. It kinda puts me in the mood of S. M. Peters' Ghost Ocean, though they're completely different books.

[EmperorMagus]

Mentalist, on 06 April 2016 - 11:41 AM, said:

EmperorMagus, on 06 April 2016 - 06:25 AM, said:

@Mentalist

I've generally avoided Stross because his sexual politics thing tends to extremely piss me off in every single book he write.

I tried to read his Merchant's princess, the first couple of book were fine (and I actually read them over the weekend). The third book extremely pissed me off, other than the fact that it was boring, the confinement part and the Clan's expectations/ treatment of Miriam had me in an adrenalin induced rage (and I'm not kidding, my hands were shaking at the end of the 3rd book)

In the 4th book

Spoiler

I just got to the artificial insemination part, and unless you tell me Miriam resolves this by nukes, I'm not continuing on.

I get it that Charlie Stross likes sex, and I don't mind it when writers use sex in their books for most reasons. (from the way Martin uses it to Hamilton to Morgan to GGK)

But the way Stross's characters are always defined by their sexes and sexual orientations is extremely off putting to me. (Accelerando, Singularity Sky, now this)

Given the settin of Merchant Princes, the dynastic element and the gender politics was a bit of a given. I felt that throughout throughout the entire second omnibus (I read them as such, so Bks 3 and 4 were combined into one without a "break") Miriam really took a backseat allowing other characters to emerge and carry th story.
Re: your spoilered: finish Bk4. If the convergence in the end doesn't keep you interested... well, there's no accounting for taste but things ramp up drastically. And yes, there'll be plenty of nukes, and plenty of come-uppance.

Granted, I came into "Merchant Princes with no prior Stross except Laundry. Still, Miriam's not the only star of the show, and I actually felt the bulk of the cast were strong, capable females- Miriam's treatment notwithstanding that's still the case.

ETA: and if you think the spoilered thing makes Miriam somehow less of a player, you're definitely wrong. Actually, that thing, despicable as it is, launches a whole other angle to the story. RAFO to the end of book 4 before you make up your mind on abandoning the series.

Spoiler

I don't think it makes her less of a player, but if she carries that child to term in order to blackmail her family then I have serious problems with the plot of this book, because it portrays pseudo-rape as overal good for Miriam.
"Hey, it wasn't so bad, she got something out of it"

Furthermore, I think the entire point of Miriam's character is that she is an intelligent person that learns, bearing a second unwanted child is something that goes entirely against her character.
Anyways, I can't seem to make myself pick up this series again

Abyss, on 06 April 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

EmperorMagus, on 06 April 2016 - 06:25 AM, said:

...
But the way Stross's characters are always defined by their sexes and sexual orientations is extremely off putting to me. (Accelerando, ...

I didn't enjoy Accelerando, but on this point I'm not sure you read the same book I did.

I stand by my statement. The guy is mentioned as "being lead around his apartment by a leash" a billion times, and Paula's (? , fiance) obsessive control freakness( related to her sexuality again) is what drives her daughter to do as she did. After a certain point, the sexualities go past mere details and become central to characters.

[Andorion]

Salt-Man Z, on 07 April 2016 - 04:14 PM, said:

So I finished Dancer's Lament. Easily ICE's best. I didn't particularly care for any of the characters, didn't feel compelled to know "What happens next?" but it was never boring. Nicely focused, and no obfuscation! (Amazing!) An excellent start to the trilogy.

I'm also in the middle of Conrad's Heart of Darkness on ebook. I was supposed to read this in high school, but never did. I'm not sure how I would have fared in any case: It starts with a boring frame story that I just about bounced off of, and the book ends up being someone telling a story about someone telling a story. Guh. Thankfully, once it gets going, Marlow's narration gets this hypnotic quality to it that's oddly compelling. Unfortunately, I'm reading it at work during lunch or whatever in short bursts, which makes it hard to get back into each time.

Last night I started in on The Library at Mount Char. Wow. It's...kinda crazy. And I can't put it down. It kinda puts me in the mood of S. M. Peters' Ghost Ocean, though they're completely different books.

Crazy is a very good adjective for Library at Mount Char. That book really startled me in the way it progressed

[QuickTidal]

Mentalist, on 07 April 2016 - 04:02 PM, said:

Sigma Force starts with "Sandstorm", right?

I read it a bunch of years ago (had a friend of my mom's lend it to me), but didn't think much of it.

No, sandstorm is the quasi-prequel...the proper team isn't assembled till MAP OF BONES, which is the first official Sigma team book. The only person who reprises their role from SANDSTORM is Painter. And MAP OF BONES is a FAR superior book.

[Mentalist]

EmperorMagus, on 07 April 2016 - 04:24 PM, said:

Mentalist, on 06 April 2016 - 11:41 AM, said:

EmperorMagus, on 06 April 2016 - 06:25 AM, said:

@Mentalist

I've generally avoided Stross because his sexual politics thing tends to extremely piss me off in every single book he write.

I tried to read his Merchant's princess, the first couple of book were fine (and I actually read them over the weekend). The third book extremely pissed me off, other than the fact that it was boring, the confinement part and the Clan's expectations/ treatment of Miriam had me in an adrenalin induced rage (and I'm not kidding, my hands were shaking at the end of the 3rd book)

In the 4th book

Spoiler

I just got to the artificial insemination part, and unless you tell me Miriam resolves this by nukes, I'm not continuing on.

I get it that Charlie Stross likes sex, and I don't mind it when writers use sex in their books for most reasons. (from the way Martin uses it to Hamilton to Morgan to GGK)

But the way Stross's characters are always defined by their sexes and sexual orientations is extremely off putting to me. (Accelerando, Singularity Sky, now this)

Given the settin of Merchant Princes, the dynastic element and the gender politics was a bit of a given. I felt that throughout throughout the entire second omnibus (I read them as such, so Bks 3 and 4 were combined into one without a "break") Miriam really took a backseat allowing other characters to emerge and carry th story.
Re: your spoilered: finish Bk4. If the convergence in the end doesn't keep you interested... well, there's no accounting for taste but things ramp up drastically. And yes, there'll be plenty of nukes, and plenty of come-uppance.

Granted, I came into "Merchant Princes with no prior Stross except Laundry. Still, Miriam's not the only star of the show, and I actually felt the bulk of the cast were strong, capable females- Miriam's treatment notwithstanding that's still the case.

ETA: and if you think the spoilered thing makes Miriam somehow less of a player, you're definitely wrong. Actually, that thing, despicable as it is, launches a whole other angle to the story. RAFO to the end of book 4 before you make up your mind on abandoning the series.

Spoiler

I don't think it makes her less of a player, but if she carries that child to term in order to blackmail her family then I have serious problems with the plot of this book, because it portrays pseudo-rape as overal good for Miriam.
"Hey, it wasn't so bad, she got something out of it"

Furthermore, I think the entire point of Miriam's character is that she is an intelligent person that learns, bearing a second unwanted child is something that goes entirely against her character.
Anyways, I can't seem to make myself pick up this series again

Abyss, on 06 April 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

EmperorMagus, on 06 April 2016 - 06:25 AM, said:

...
But the way Stross's characters are always defined by their sexes and sexual orientations is extremely off putting to me. (Accelerando, ...

I didn't enjoy Accelerando, but on this point I'm not sure you read the same book I did.

I stand by my statement. The guy is mentioned as "being lead around his apartment by a leash" a billion times, and Paula's (? , fiance) obsessive control freakness( related to her sexuality again) is what drives her daughter to do as she did. After a certain point, the sexualities go past mere details and become central to characters.

Re: the spoiler. I'll just say things move waaay faster than that. End of Bk4 picks up the pace, the last 2 books make it break-neck.

And Miriam's whole point I that she's trying to change the society she discovered herself to be a part of. The society will inevitably push back. Whether Miriam is changed by her struggle (does she "make a deal with he conscience") is a running theme. To be fair, Miriam becomes less central to the plot in bks 3 an 4 (other characters take central stage, to do a lot of buildup), but she's integral to the conclusion and the preceding resolution process (which, as I've mentioned is Ke-raaazy action-packed and has INTERDIMENSIONAL NUKES).

[Mentalist]

In other news: finished up "Dancers at the End of Time". If you want to try understand the Multiverse, read this. If you're looking for some fun, Absurdist comedy with tints of moral philosophy, read this.

I've got 2 more "Legends from the End of Time" to go before I'm done with the "End of Time" sequence on the big reading list- so expect a new entry in the Moorcock thread mid-next week.

Halfway on my FoD re-read, and hoping to finish off part 2 and get a good chunk of Part 3 of the "Gunslinger" done this weekend.