[amphibian]

What Blood Meridian does is affect the reader in regards to the powerful effects of violence and insanity permitted by society. It's a brilliant book with one of the best characters ever written, so lots of people read and love it.

But it takes a little to put yourself back together afterwards.

I finished up the entire Raksura series, which I loved. Beautiful, soaring, diversely populated, and inventive.

Now reading the Red Knight by Cameron. Early on, the writing judders - particularly when he just has to display that he really truly does know how medieval armor works - but around the 1/3 mark it hits a stride and gets good. He understands how fucking tired you get when you fight and you fight and you have to keep going. He shows costs of actions, vicious enemies, regular people, and interesting events. I like it.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 13 January 2016 - 05:32 AM

[Abyss]

 Andorion, on 13 January 2016 - 02:48 AM, said:

 Abyss, on 13 January 2016 - 02:44 AM, said:

NIGHTLIFE, Thurman's Cal n Nik series book one, in earbook, actually got so bad that I stopped halfway thru. The frustrating part is that the characters, the conflict, the actual story are good enough, but wow... The writing... It hurts. Thurman has clearly never seen a metaphor he didn't like, a simile he didn't love, a tangential narrative that wholly yanks the reader out of the scene to no helpful effect. It's like I walked into a store and got swept up in a wave of snow that drove the focus away from the story, like a rainstorm that makes you lose your way even tho I know that as sure as I can find my feet il walk in the sunshine again like a California summer that I experienced as a child back when I believed that the world was safe like a warm mattress that you sink into like a happy pile of marshmallows that smell like feet that have been walking all day through the snow that drove the focus away from whatever I was talking about on right goats...
Admittedly if I didn't have NEMESIS GAMES sitting right there in the earbook file, I may have persevered, but fuck, five minutes into Games I actually felt happier about life.
Anyway NEMISIS GAMES, The Expanse book 5... Alternating earbook and ebook and loving it.

I had a few issues with the series myself, but after the first two books, things started improving

I got that sense from a few people, but I think I'll need to flip it to dead tree or ebook so I can skim. There is what to like there but dear god, the metaphors.... the horrible, horrible metaphors. Like mosquitos. Buzzing at my brain Like a headache I just cannot scratch. An ice cream headache. And the ice cream is pistachio. That radioactive green pistachio that never knew the touch of a real nut. A real nut like the cashews I threw on my salad, the salad that I knew was healthy even tho I wanted a steak. A big juicy steak that reminded me of barbecues and afternoons in the country , like a memory that gets shinier as time passes and you drink more to make it more like a photo, a photo that you find in a book one day, pressed into a cookbook that you remember your mother using to kill a spider when you were six and too short to reach the counter that towered above you like that monolith in that movie I like giraffes.

[Tsundoku]

You guys need to get over your metaphor habits. Learn to just say no. Be that cheerleader on Prom night having second thoughts.

Just started The Red Knight.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 13 January 2016 - 08:10 AM

[worry]

Overuse of metaphors is sadly a labyrinth that too many authors can't escape.

[Tsundoku]

 worry, on 13 January 2016 - 08:28 AM, said:

Overuse of metaphors is sadly a labyrinth that too many authors can't escape.

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[Puck]

 Abyss, on 13 January 2016 - 06:40 AM, said:

 Andorion, on 13 January 2016 - 02:48 AM, said:

 Abyss, on 13 January 2016 - 02:44 AM, said:

NIGHTLIFE, Thurman's Cal n Nik series book one, in earbook, actually got so bad that I stopped halfway thru. The frustrating part is that the characters, the conflict, the actual story are good enough, but wow... The writing... It hurts. Thurman has clearly never seen a metaphor he didn't like, a simile he didn't love, a tangential narrative that wholly yanks the reader out of the scene to no helpful effect. It's like I walked into a store and got swept up in a wave of snow that drove the focus away from the story, like a rainstorm that makes you lose your way even tho I know that as sure as I can find my feet il walk in the sunshine again like a California summer that I experienced as a child back when I believed that the world was safe like a warm mattress that you sink into like a happy pile of marshmallows that smell like feet that have been walking all day through the snow that drove the focus away from whatever I was talking about on right goats...
Admittedly if I didn't have NEMESIS GAMES sitting right there in the earbook file, I may have persevered, but fuck, five minutes into Games I actually felt happier about life.
Anyway NEMISIS GAMES, The Expanse book 5... Alternating earbook and ebook and loving it.

I had a few issues with the series myself, but after the first two books, things started improving

I got that sense from a few people, but I think I'll need to flip it to dead tree or ebook so I can skim. There s what to like there but dear god, the metaphors.... the horrible, horrible metaphors. Like mosquitos. Buzzing at my brain Like a headache I just cannot scratch. An ice cream headache. And the ice cream is pistachio. That radioactive green pistachio that never knew the touch of a real nut. A real nut like the cashews I threw on my salad, the salad that I knew was healthy even tho I wanted a steak. A big juicy steak that reminded me of barbecues and afternoons in the country , like a memory that gets shinier as time passes and you drink more to make it more like a photo, a photo that you find in a book one day, a cookbook that you remember your mother using to kill a spider when you were six and too short to reach the counter that towered above you like that monolith in that movie I like giraffes.

It was Thurman's first book ever. It does get better in pretty much every aspect later on (and a big part of the writing is Cal's PoV, when Nik gets one it's noticeably different). I maintain the opinion that the series overall is worth it provided one likes the characters and the story, but admittedly, the writing doesn't reach literary heights, though it does get a lot better. I personally consider it pure popcorn reading, and love it because it provides the kind of readable popcorn I like.

Andorion made an entire thread about the series while he was reading it, but it's quite full of spoilers.

[Maark Abbott]

 worry, on 13 January 2016 - 08:28 AM, said:

Overuse of metaphors is sadly a labyrinth that too many authors can't escape.

Worry and Maark at Malazan Forum.

[QuickTidal]

 Maark, on 13 January 2016 - 01:13 PM, said:

 worry, on 13 January 2016 - 08:28 AM, said:

Overuse of metaphors is sadly a labyrinth that too many authors can't escape.

Worry and Maark at Malazan Forum. Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.

FTFY

[Maark Abbott]

 QuickTidal, on 13 January 2016 - 02:02 PM, said:

 Maark, on 13 January 2016 - 01:13 PM, said:

 worry, on 13 January 2016 - 08:28 AM, said:

Overuse of metaphors is sadly a labyrinth that too many authors can't escape.

Worry and Maark at Malazan Forum. Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.

FTFY

QuickTidal and Corrections at Malazan Empire.

I'm onto King's Dragon by Kate Elliott. Seems decent so far.

[Andorion]

 Puck Puckster, on 13 January 2016 - 11:08 AM, said:

 Abyss, on 13 January 2016 - 06:40 AM, said:

 Andorion, on 13 January 2016 - 02:48 AM, said:

 Abyss, on 13 January 2016 - 02:44 AM, said:

NIGHTLIFE, Thurman's Cal n Nik series book one, in earbook, actually got so bad that I stopped halfway thru. The frustrating part is that the characters, the conflict, the actual story are good enough, but wow... The writing... It hurts. Thurman has clearly never seen a metaphor he didn't like, a simile he didn't love, a tangential narrative that wholly yanks the reader out of the scene to no helpful effect. It's like I walked into a store and got swept up in a wave of snow that drove the focus away from the story, like a rainstorm that makes you lose your way even tho I know that as sure as I can find my feet il walk in the sunshine again like a California summer that I experienced as a child back when I believed that the world was safe like a warm mattress that you sink into like a happy pile of marshmallows that smell like feet that have been walking all day through the snow that drove the focus away from whatever I was talking about on right goats...
Admittedly if I didn't have NEMESIS GAMES sitting right there in the earbook file, I may have persevered, but fuck, five minutes into Games I actually felt happier about life.
Anyway NEMISIS GAMES, The Expanse book 5... Alternating earbook and ebook and loving it.

I had a few issues with the series myself, but after the first two books, things started improving

I got that sense from a few people, but I think I'll need to flip it to dead tree or ebook so I can skim. There s what to like there but dear god, the metaphors.... the horrible, horrible metaphors. Like mosquitos. Buzzing at my brain Like a headache I just cannot scratch. An ice cream headache. And the ice cream is pistachio. That radioactive green pistachio that never knew the touch of a real nut. A real nut like the cashews I threw on my salad, the salad that I knew was healthy even tho I wanted a steak. A big juicy steak that reminded me of barbecues and afternoons in the country , like a memory that gets shinier as time passes and you drink more to make it more like a photo, a photo that you find in a book one day, a cookbook that you remember your mother using to kill a spider when you were six and too short to reach the counter that towered above you like that monolith in that movie I like giraffes.

It was Thurman's first book ever. It does get better in pretty much every aspect later on (and a big part of the writing is Cal's PoV, when Nik gets one it's noticeably different). I maintain the opinion that the series overall is worth it provided one likes the characters and the story, but admittedly, the writing doesn't reach literary heights, though it does get a lot better. I personally consider it pure popcorn reading, and love it because it provides the kind of readable popcorn I like.

Andorion made an entire thread about the series while he was reading it, but it's quite full of spoilers.

Nick's PoVs are like a breath of fresh air.

Though, Puck Have you read the recent books? Not the December release, the one before that.

[Abyss]

It may be that the main problem was that NIGHTLIFE simply could not stand up to NEMISIS, at least in part because it's bk 5 in a series i'm loving as opposed to bk 1 in a series and an author's first effort too.

I can't really slam Thurman, he's ten books+ into CalNik so obviously someone is reading them and on a forum level, neither Puck nor Andorion reco crap, and as posted upthread, there are definitely things i liked.

Except for the metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor
metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor
metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor
metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor
metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor story metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor
metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor fucking metaphor.

[Macros]

Finished Magicians End and the Midkemia riftmess

Was it a satisfying end?
No
It was a painfully slow read.

The stuff with the regular humans was bearable, the tussle for the the crown etc. Didn't mind that arc, or the wrap-up, how ever its a conclusion that has been screamed off the pages for 3 books and not a remote surprise.
The "journey" chapters were just painfully dull bullshit. Could easily have been chopped out.
The dramatic end sequence (not counting the lotresque aftermath scenes) was underwhelming to say the least, excepting Tomas' storyline, I didn't expect that ending for him and it probably the only part of the last 7 books that mattered to me remotely on a 'I actually cared how that turned out' level. I thought it well executed.
The Pug stuff can go suck a dick.
So can the endless pages of pondering the nature of reality. The 2 demons from book 2 were totally unnecessary and to me added nothing to the story and had no need for the personalities they were given, in fact 2 demons with the troubles Haman had in Rage of A Demon King would have provided a much more interesting proposition, especially if the raging temper tantrums were evident.

Blech
Did the series need to go on the long? Definitely not
I think he could have reached this conclusion with 2/3 less books, 15 less characters and a lot less reminding us on every second page of character histories, incorrectly.

The over arcing story hasn't held me since Rage, too many 'bad guys level up, good guys level up' situations and on the other hand, too many important sequences dealt with in a hamfisted and rushed fashion. Could have burned the transcript for shards, the put the next 11 books in a blender, puréed them, condensed them, and put out 6/7 book cycle just titled 'the chaos war' and probably had a solid resolution to Midkemia's, and her most famous sons, troubles. With a tight editor and canonically knowledgeable proofreader off course.


Sigh

So disappointing.

[Andorion]

 Abyss, on 13 January 2016 - 03:39 PM, said:

It may be that the main problem was that NIGHTLIFE simply could not stand up to NEMISIS, at least in part because it's bk 5 in a series i'm loving as opposed to bk 1 in a series and an author's first effort too.

I can't really slam Thurman, he's ten books+ into CalNik so obviously someone is reading them and on a forum level, neither Puck nor Andorion reco crap, and as posted upthread, there are definitely things i liked.

Except for the metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor
metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor
metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor
metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor
metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor story metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor
metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor metaphor fucking metaphor.

Well in the context of Expanse's Nemesis it makes perfect sense, because Nemesis was awesome. The series ascended to a new level with that book.

[Abyss]

 Macros, on 13 January 2016 - 03:40 PM, said:

Finished Magicians End and the Midkemia riftmess

....
Sigh

So disappointing.

We warned you. We TOTALLY WARNED YOU.
You have only yourself to blame and i hope you learned your lesson.

Now go reread some Malazan to make it better and we'll pretend like this little episode of self-hate never happened.

 Andorion, on 13 January 2016 - 04:04 PM, said:

 Abyss, on 13 January 2016 - 03:39 PM, said:

It may be that the main problem was that NIGHTLIFE simply could not stand up to NEMISIS...

Well in the context of Expanse's Nemesis it makes perfect sense, because Nemesis was awesome. The series ascended to a new level with that book.

25% in... No kidding. The choice of povs and what the authors do with them... it is silly how invested i am in these characters.

[Andorion]

 Abyss, on 13 January 2016 - 04:36 PM, said:

 Macros, on 13 January 2016 - 03:40 PM, said:

Finished Magicians End and the Midkemia riftmess

....
Sigh

So disappointing.

We warned you. We TOTALLY WARNED YOU.
You have only yourself to blame and i hope you learned your lesson.

Now go reread some Malazan to make it better and we'll pretend like this little episode of self-hate never happened.

 Andorion, on 13 January 2016 - 04:04 PM, said:

 Abyss, on 13 January 2016 - 03:39 PM, said:

It may be that the main problem was that NIGHTLIFE simply could not stand up to NEMISIS...

Well in the context of Expanse's Nemesis it makes perfect sense, because Nemesis was awesome. The series ascended to a new level with that book.

25% in... No kidding. The choice of povs and what the authors do with them... it is silly how invested i am in these characters.

Oh you aren't done yet? Finish it!!!!!!!

[Macros]

I felt obliged once I had started abyss, normally I drop all at Rage of a Demon King but...

Am I glad I finished midkemia?
Yes and no.
Yes because its done and I wont be forever wondering how it turned out
No because it was such a farce

[QuickTidal]

Finished THE LIAR'S KEY by Lawrence (full thoughts in ded-thread) and thought it was MAYBE his best work to date. Just an incredible entry. Can't wait for the 3rd book (which I pre-ordered)!

Started HELL HOUSE by Richard Matheson (before Xmas I was lost in the little stories posted on Creepypasta and sharing them with my sister-in-law who also likes scary stories, so for Xmas she bought me this book after hearing how scary it apparently is)...and though I'm only 50 pages in, I'm already creeped-the-hell OUT. Great stuff so far. Especially given that the book was written in 1971, you can't really tell.

[Maark Abbott]

The above thoughts are why I stopped with Feist after his Demon War quadrilogy. The first two series (plus the one with Wurts) were decent, but it always seemed to boil down to a situation where the good guys were winning, then the bad guys are, oh no it's hopeless for the goodies, oh wait here's Pug and T. No danger.

[Abyss]

 Andorion, on 13 January 2016 - 04:56 PM, said:

 Abyss, on 13 January 2016 - 04:36 PM, said:

 Andorion, on 13 January 2016 - 04:04 PM, said:

 Abyss, on 13 January 2016 - 03:39 PM, said:

It may be that the main problem was that NIGHTLIFE simply could not stand up to NEMISIS...

Well in the context of Expanse's Nemesis it makes perfect sense, because Nemesis was awesome. The series ascended to a new level with that book.

25% in... No kidding. The choice of povs and what the authors do with them... it is silly how invested i am in these characters.

Oh you aren't done yet? Finish it!!!!!!!

I'm going at it in ebook AND earbook, but i have severely little read/listen time lately even so.

That said, at the 45% point HOLY SPACEFUCK DID THAT JUST HAPPEN?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

[Baco Xtath]

 Abyss, on 14 January 2016 - 03:34 PM, said:

That said, at the 45% point HOLY SPACEFUCK DID THAT JUST HAPPEN?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Yep. Shit just got real. Can't wait for that episode to hit.