[Gredfallan Ale]

Morgoth, on 24 August 2015 - 06:36 AM, said:

I disagree that they're worth it, though Abyss' claim that the later books are a lot less annoying when there's not a 5 year wait makes a lot of sense.

Well, thanks for the opinions. A couple of my friends had diverging opinions on the series, too, but I could not discern whether the negative critiques were fuelled by genuine dislike or the usual fantasy elitist's snobbism of disliking a series that has gained some mainstream attention.

[Morgoth]

Gredfallan Ale, on 24 August 2015 - 08:25 AM, said:

Morgoth, on 24 August 2015 - 06:36 AM, said:

I disagree that they're worth it, though Abyss' claim that the later books are a lot less annoying when there's not a 5 year wait makes a lot of sense.

Well, thanks for the opinions. A couple of my friends had diverging opinions on the series, too, but I could not discern whether the negative critiques were fuelled by genuine dislike or the usual fantasy elitist's snobbism of disliking a series that has gained some mainstream attention.

I don't know about that. I find that elitist snobbism only functions as a cause of criticism when that criticism is focused towards something the accuser likes.

[Maark Abbott]

For my two pence, I very much enjoyed the Wheel of Time. Yeah, it's a long-ass series that revels in minutae, but I'm into detail. And, other than Perrin being a mopey wanker at times, I enjoyed most of the characters.

I also did the series in one go. End to end. Fourteen months with no breaks.

[EmperorMagus]

Morgoth, on 24 August 2015 - 09:00 AM, said:

Gredfallan Ale, on 24 August 2015 - 08:25 AM, said:

Morgoth, on 24 August 2015 - 06:36 AM, said:

I disagree that they're worth it, though Abyss' claim that the later books are a lot less annoying when there's not a 5 year wait makes a lot of sense.

Well, thanks for the opinions. A couple of my friends had diverging opinions on the series, too, but I could not discern whether the negative critiques were fuelled by genuine dislike or the usual fantasy elitist's snobbism of disliking a series that has gained some mainstream attention.

I don't know about that. I find that elitist snobbism only functions as a cause of criticism when that criticism is focused towards something the accuser likes.

Do you have the slightest idea how convoluted that sentence is?
It took me 30 seconds to decipher it.
Here, George Orwell wants to have a few words with you.

This post has been edited by EmperorMagus: 24 August 2015 - 10:58 AM

[Maark Abbott]

EmperorMagus, on 24 August 2015 - 10:57 AM, said:

Morgoth, on 24 August 2015 - 09:00 AM, said:

Gredfallan Ale, on 24 August 2015 - 08:25 AM, said:

Morgoth, on 24 August 2015 - 06:36 AM, said:

I disagree that they're worth it, though Abyss' claim that the later books are a lot less annoying when there's not a 5 year wait makes a lot of sense.

Well, thanks for the opinions. A couple of my friends had diverging opinions on the series, too, but I could not discern whether the negative critiques were fuelled by genuine dislike or the usual fantasy elitist's snobbism of disliking a series that has gained some mainstream attention.

I don't know about that. I find that elitist snobbism only functions as a cause of criticism when that criticism is focused towards something the accuser likes.

Do you have the slightest idea how convoluted that sentence is?
It took me 30 seconds to decipher it.
Here, George Orwell wants to have a few words with you.

Odhans and the lovers if the Pint. And fear.

[Gabriele]

acesn8s, on 23 August 2015 - 08:55 PM, said:

Gabriele, on 23 August 2015 - 07:05 PM, said:

Abyss, on 23 August 2015 - 05:15 PM, said:

Gabriele, on 23 August 2015 - 01:58 PM, said:

Nynaeve, Egwene, that princess with E.. who appears later in the book if my memory serves me right. The only tolerable one is Moiriane so far. And the way the boys react to the girls doesn't help, either. Ignore the silly gits and get a life.

Elayne.

A fair chunk of the boy/girl stuff in the early books is very YA to just irritating, but aside from as a motivator it's fairly inconsequential. There's enough good stuff to carry you to books 4-6 where the shit truly hits the Wheel. In a good way.Books 7-10 can be read with a fair amount of skimming. Without the five year wait between they aren't nearly as annoying I'm told. And the last few books are pure epic fantasy goodness.
All of which is to say, it's worth the read.

So far, the motivator seems to be that the girls say "men" a lot, the boys don't 'get' girls, and no one really talks with each other about the things that matter, causing most of the troubles the travellers encounter in the first place.

Kinda like kids in high school and college...

That being said, I do understand your criticism and agree with it. I believe the series offers a lot and it is worth putting the time in.

I suppose part of the problem is that started WoT after having read GRRM, Kearney, Erikson and a bunch of other authors who took Fantasy to a new level. Right after Eddings, Feist and even Tad Williams (whose Memory, Sorrow and Thorn trilogy is still one of my favourites) I might have been bothered less by some of the characters - geez, Ce'nedra was one silly girl, too, and Polgara bitching about Belgarad drinking too much got old pretty fast.

[Salt-Man Z]

I've been kind of slow in my reading lately, as well as with my updates here. So here are the last few books I've finished:

The Gods of Laki by Chris Angus - Not good. Sounded interesting (mysterious presence under an Icelandic volcano + terrorists) and parts of it worked as a thriller, but overall it was only okay, and the ending itself (weird fungus thing emanating from an interdimensional portal claims to be God and hate religious people, and somehow the characters all accept this) is just beyond stupid. I still owe the publisher a review, but it's hard to muster up the motivation.

William Shakespeare's The Phantom of Menace
and William Shakespeare's The Clone Army Attacketh by Ian Doescher - These were great, like I've come to expect with this series. EpI improved on the movie tenfold, but was still one of the weakest books just by dint of the still-relatively-boring plot and characters. EpII was great, though: the romance between Anakin and Padme was believable and Doescher pulled off some fun tricks with his verse.

Two Years Eight Months and Twenty-Eight Nights by Salman Rushdie - Good stuff. Recounts, from a far-future perspective, a modern-day war in which the jinn from Fairyland invade the Earth for 1001 nights, and a female jinni awakens and rallies her half-human descendants around the world to fight back. Both the narrative and prose do this kind of rambling, run-on thing but it's done in a kind of hypnotizing fashion that's a delight to read. I'm not a fan of the "moral" at the end, which boils down to "After our ancestors were invaded by supernatural beings, everybody gave up religion because reasons" but other than that, I loved it.

[QuickTidal]

Gabriele, on 24 August 2015 - 03:17 PM, said:

So far, the motivator seems to be that the girls say "men" a lot, the boys don't 'get' girls, and no one really talks with each other about the things that matter, causing most of the troubles the travellers encounter in the first place.

This here is nail on the head for one of the main things wrong with the series. The men and women in this series act like stupid young pre-social media teens. Across the board. Even an older man in a relationship with a similarly-aged (if younger than him) woman acts like blind, dumbass teens. They don't talk about their issues. They don't communicate on any real level...and if they do either the guy will bugger off angry with a "I don't understand her!" or the woman will growl about "men being stubborn muleheaded idiots!"...nothing is solved. Nothing is gained. Hell, Perrin's plotline through MULTIPLE books exists because of poor communication with not just one woman, but many women. Up to and including the final trilogy of books in the series this continues. The level of unrealistic interactions between the characters is so high that it's scoffworthy at times.

Now, there are some very cool scenes in the series, and some great story points...and I'm one of the ones who didn't have to do a long wait between volumes (I read my first when when the GATHERING STORM was already about in MMP)...but when the last book came out and I finished it, I was MORE than happy to say good riddance to my entire WOT collection of books at a used bookstore.

The way I worded my final thought was something like: "A decent, if long-winded, fantasy series that I enjoyed at times...that I will never re-read, and I'm not entirely sure it wasn't just a big waste of time as a whole."

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 24 August 2015 - 03:50 PM

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 24 August 2015 - 03:48 PM, said:

... They don't talk about their issues. They don't communicate on any real level...and if they do either the guy will bugger off angry with a "I don't understand her!" or the woman will growl about "men being stubborn muleheaded idiots!"...nothing is solved. Nothing is gained. ...

You mean, just like real people interactions?



I'm kidding to an extent... there is a high level of whining at times, esp in the middle books, but then you get those glorious epic fantasy conflagrations involving characters doing epic shit, often as a result of the situations that led to, or from, the whining,and it's worthwhile.

Usually.

I'm conscious of the series' strengths and pitfalls, but overall i think it's worth at least a solid try for a fantasy lit fan.

[Tiste Simeon]

Abyss, on 24 August 2015 - 08:13 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 24 August 2015 - 03:48 PM, said:

... They don't talk about their issues. They don't communicate on any real level...and if they do either the guy will bugger off angry with a "I don't understand her!" or the woman will growl about "men being stubborn muleheaded idiots!"...nothing is solved. Nothing is gained. ...

You mean, just like real people interactions?

Ugh and who wants to read about THAT?

[Andorion]

So a friend of mine is really pressuring me get off my no-GRRM stance and start both the show and the books. he is super enthusiastic, and is in fact ready to lend me both books and dvds. What do you guys think? Is this a good time? The end of the books seem to be impossibly distant in the future and I was getting a bit impatient...

[Andorion]

King Briar, on 25 August 2015 - 03:54 AM, said:

The 1st 3 bks are absolute pg turners. Awesome! 4&5 not so much but it ll be a bit like reading WoT where the yrs long wait doesn't affect your enjoyment. Who can say when we ll get(if ever) 6&7? You may as well go ahead other wise your bound to run into random spoilers online in the next 1-2 yrs as the show over takes bks.

The spoilers are a very definite and serious concern especially as several of my FB "friends" spew spoilers like flamethrowers.

[Andorion]

King Briar, on 25 August 2015 - 04:58 AM, said:

Yep it ll get bad for people that are waiting for bks. I was going to wait myself but S5 was the biggest division from bks so far I just decided to keep watching next yr for 6 cause to me the show went Alt Uni route.

I think you ll be very happy with bks 1-3 if you start now. They truly are pretty epic.

Which should be first? Show or books? Or both together?

[JPK]

Over the last couple of days I've finished both Finch by VanderMeer and Witches Abroad by Sir Terry.

Amphibian posted a bit about the Ambergris trilogy a few pages back that really summed up this series very very well. In short, VanderMeer is a genius and managed to bring three very very different books into something that is spectacular, but I feel that you really need all three books (and in order) to get the full impact of what he did here.

As far as Witches Abroad goes, I enjoyed it but I think that The Witches are my least favorite of the Discworld crews. That being said, Nanny Ogg and her Banananana drinks and Greebo really made this book for me.

Next up is Hondo by Louis L'Amour. I've been meaning to read this book again for about three years now, but I end up having to put it down after a few pages every time. It was my father's favorite book, and after he passed I've just had a very hard time reading it. Well, I've decided that I'm going to make it through it this time damnit.

[amphibian]

Andorion, on 25 August 2015 - 05:01 AM, said:

Which should be first? Show or books? Or both together?

Show first. Then books. At the rate you consume media, you'll have them both done by the time the next installment of either comes out.

The reason why I say show first is because by necessity, the show parses storylines into trimmer versions or leaves others out. If you go show to books, then you get to see the bigger vision and the "what may have beens", without rancor as Tanner holds for going the opposite way.

[worry]

Read the first three books, then watch the entirety of the show, then read the last two books.

[Andorion]

King Briar, on 25 August 2015 - 05:04 AM, said:

Go books man. You read fucking fast. Read 1-5 then watch show

amphibian, on 25 August 2015 - 05:20 AM, said:

Andorion, on 25 August 2015 - 05:01 AM, said:

Which should be first? Show or books? Or both together?

Show first. Then books. At the rate you consume media, you'll have them both done by the time the next installment of either comes out.

The reason why I say show first is because by necessity, the show parses storylines into trimmer versions or leaves others out. If you go show to books, then you get to see the bigger vision and the "what may have beens", without rancor as Tanner holds for going the opposite way.

worry, on 25 August 2015 - 05:45 AM, said:

Read the first three books, then watch the entirety of the show, then read the last two books.

2 books, 1 show

, I have read the first few chapters of a Game of Thrones a few years before, about 30% or so. So if I read book 1 first, then stopped, watched seasons 1-3 and then got back to the books? Does this sound feasible? Or just seasons1-2?

Edit: BK sent you a PM

This post has been edited by Andorion: 25 August 2015 - 06:59 AM

[D'iversify]

Andorion, on 25 August 2015 - 04:07 AM, said:

King Briar, on 25 August 2015 - 03:54 AM, said:

The 1st 3 bks are absolute pg turners. Awesome! 4&5 not so much but it ll be a bit like reading WoT where the yrs long wait doesn't affect your enjoyment. Who can say when we ll get(if ever) 6&7? You may as well go ahead other wise your bound to run into random spoilers online in the next 1-2 yrs as the show over takes bks.

The spoilers are a very definite and serious concern especially as several of my FB "friends" spew spoilers like flamethrowers.

Series is more than good enough to read even if you get spoilered.

Must say, as someone who read the books quite some time before the TV series, that the distinction between how readers handle spoilers and watchers is very notable (people who'd already read the books didn't spend the months before filling Facebook with 'I can't wait until x that happens in the books happens in the series, whereas people who just watch are very happy to splash spoilerific events out there the minute they finish the episode).

[Gredfallan Ale]

While I think the series does provide some major plot spoilers for the books, the books have so much more content that I feel it is still worth it. However, while I really the first three books, I actually put down the fourth book for almost a year before continuing as it didn't fully grab my attention. To be honest, I haven't even watch the last couple of seasons of the series, I think I quit watching somewhere towards the end of the second season. It's was still fun to hear people who did not read the books discussing plot developments and spoilers.

[End of Disc One]

Just read the books first