[Mentalist]

Finished "the Departure". Holy crap, that is one dark book.

It's much more cyberpunk than sci-fi, but it is the darkest cyberpunk I've ever read.

thought-provoking, a sizeable amount of philosophical pondering, pretty crazy action, and a lot of gruesome concepts.

Really curious where he will go with this series now.

Next up, since my "Eternal Champion" books are arriving out of order and still no Von Bek , gonna read "Elantris"

This post has been edited by Mentalist: 02 October 2014 - 12:33 AM

[Tiste Simeon]

OK so since I was a bit undecided about what to read next and it was cheap on Kindle, I downloaded Gone Girl. Sounds like a pretty good book and the film looks good too!

[Baco Xtath]

Finished Infinite Jest yesterday. It's one of the funniest, most disturbing, best books I've ever read/listened to.

Just started listening to the Skinner for my wait until the Dark Defiles is released.

[D'rek]

I'm reading The Blade Itself (Abercrombie). Halfway through and finding it rather dull - seems like all the protaganists are just wandering/sitting about doing what they're told. I don't know what any of their ambitions are or why they're doing what they are doing, nor do I know any of the plans of the secondary characters who are ordering the protaganists about. So why should I empathize with Logen (a murderous warrior who's entire current gameplan is "I guess I'll walk through the forest with this guy for a while, I don't even know where we're going"), Glokta ("Gee, I'm vaguely worried I'm an expendable minion to the Arch Lector, but I'm not going to do anything about it") or Jezal ("Waaaah training is so hard, I haaaaate it, waaaaaah, but I can't quit even though I want to and have no reason not to because I'm a total whiny asshat, because this duel will probably be the only interesting action sequence in this entire book, also cringe-worthy juvenile girl-crush from a grown man, waaaaaaaah").

There's some good parts here and there, but it's hard to remember any good stuff after I just got to 5 paragraphs in a row of Jezal looking at himself in the mirror and complimenting himself. He literally thinks via the narrative something like "Had anyone ever had such a magnificent jawline as this?". I think I puked in my mouth a little bit.

I really liked Best Served Cold as a standalone, except for the magic ninja people kinda deus ex machin'ing it, but insofar I don't think I'm going to be inclined to continue the First Law trilogy after TBI.

[QuickTidal]

D, on 02 October 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

I'm reading The Blade Itself (Abercrombie). Halfway through and finding it rather dull - seems like all the protaganists are just wandering/sitting about doing what they're told. I don't know what any of their ambitions are or why they're doing what they are doing, nor do I know any of the plans of the secondary characters who are ordering the protaganists about. So why should I empathize with Logen (a murderous warrior who's entire current gameplan is "I guess I'll walk through the forest with this guy for a while, I don't even know where we're going"), Glokta ("Gee, I'm vaguely worried I'm an expendable minion to the Arch Lector, but I'm not going to do anything about it") or Jezal ("Waaaah training is so hard, I haaaaate it, waaaaaah, but I can't quit even though I want to and have no reason not to because I'm a total whiny asshat, because this duel will probably be the only interesting action sequence in this entire book, also cringe-worthy juvenile girl-crush from a grown man, waaaaaaaah").

There's some good parts here and there, but it's hard to remember any good stuff after I just got to 5 paragraphs in a row of Jezal looking at himself in the mirror and complimenting himself. He literally thinks via the narrative something like "Had anyone ever had such a magnificent jawline as this?". I think I puked in my mouth a little bit.

I really liked Best Served Cold as a standalone, except for the magic ninja people kinda deus ex machin'ing it, but insofar I don't think I'm going to be inclined to continue the First Law trilogy after TBI.

I don't want to spoil anything for you...but all those things you've said about each character are exactly what Abercrombie wants you to think about them..especially when you don't expect to have seen them that way. It will make much more sense later. But yeah, the reason I think TBI is such a great book is because of what he does with the characters. So If I can borrow a cliche, keep reading and see if you like it by the end.

[Chance]

Finished up the Getaway God the latest Sandman Slim novel which was great fun, was thinking of Light by M John Harrison next or perhaps a new attempt to get through the Gap Cycle its good but really bogged me down somewhere halfway through last time.

This post has been edited by Chance: 02 October 2014 - 04:43 PM

[Andorion]

Read the first 25% of Robert Reddick's Red Wolf Conspiracy as a palate cleanser in the middle of my WoT read. Touches of Robert Louis Stevenson in the writing, I think......

[D'rek]

QuickTidal, on 02 October 2014 - 04:03 PM, said:

D, on 02 October 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

I'm reading The Blade Itself (Abercrombie). Halfway through and finding it rather dull - seems like all the protaganists are just wandering/sitting about doing what they're told. I don't know what any of their ambitions are or why they're doing what they are doing, nor do I know any of the plans of the secondary characters who are ordering the protaganists about. So why should I empathize with Logen (a murderous warrior who's entire current gameplan is "I guess I'll walk through the forest with this guy for a while, I don't even know where we're going"), Glokta ("Gee, I'm vaguely worried I'm an expendable minion to the Arch Lector, but I'm not going to do anything about it") or Jezal ("Waaaah training is so hard, I haaaaate it, waaaaaah, but I can't quit even though I want to and have no reason not to because I'm a total whiny asshat, because this duel will probably be the only interesting action sequence in this entire book, also cringe-worthy juvenile girl-crush from a grown man, waaaaaaaah").

There's some good parts here and there, but it's hard to remember any good stuff after I just got to 5 paragraphs in a row of Jezal looking at himself in the mirror and complimenting himself. He literally thinks via the narrative something like "Had anyone ever had such a magnificent jawline as this?". I think I puked in my mouth a little bit.

I really liked Best Served Cold as a standalone, except for the magic ninja people kinda deus ex machin'ing it, but insofar I don't think I'm going to be inclined to continue the First Law trilogy after TBI.

I don't want to spoil anything for you...but all those things you've said about each character are exactly what Abercrombie wants you to think about them..especially when you don't expect to have seen them that way. It will make much more sense later. But yeah, the reason I think TBI is such a great book is because of what he does with the characters. So If I can borrow a cliche, keep reading and see if you like it by the end.

So I'm *supposed* to feel like tossing the book aside and going to read something else where the characters have actual motivations?

[amphibian]

No, you're supposed to feel like "this band of adventurers has been done so many times before" for a brief moment - and then the real story starts kicking in. It's decidedly meaner and more interesting than let's say... Tolkien's LotR adventurers.

Glokta in particular is one of the best characters to appear in fantasy in recent years. Jezal and Logen have their martial abilities subverted as well.

[QuickTidal]

Yeah, Amph's got the right of it. You're definitely supposed to be put off by the tropes at play, and that's when Abercrombie starts twisting and turning things.

[acesn8s]

D, on 02 October 2014 - 05:21 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 02 October 2014 - 04:03 PM, said:

D, on 02 October 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

I'm reading The Blade Itself (Abercrombie). Halfway through and finding it rather dull - seems like all the protaganists are just wandering/sitting about doing what they're told. I don't know what any of their ambitions are or why they're doing what they are doing, nor do I know any of the plans of the secondary characters who are ordering the protaganists about. So why should I empathize with Logen (a murderous warrior who's entire current gameplan is "I guess I'll walk through the forest with this guy for a while, I don't even know where we're going"), Glokta ("Gee, I'm vaguely worried I'm an expendable minion to the Arch Lector, but I'm not going to do anything about it") or Jezal ("Waaaah training is so hard, I haaaaate it, waaaaaah, but I can't quit even though I want to and have no reason not to because I'm a total whiny asshat, because this duel will probably be the only interesting action sequence in this entire book, also cringe-worthy juvenile girl-crush from a grown man, waaaaaaaah").

There's some good parts here and there, but it's hard to remember any good stuff after I just got to 5 paragraphs in a row of Jezal looking at himself in the mirror and complimenting himself. He literally thinks via the narrative something like "Had anyone ever had such a magnificent jawline as this?". I think I puked in my mouth a little bit.

I really liked Best Served Cold as a standalone, except for the magic ninja people kinda deus ex machin'ing it, but insofar I don't think I'm going to be inclined to continue the First Law trilogy after TBI.

I don't want to spoil anything for you...but all those things you've said about each character are exactly what Abercrombie wants you to think about them..especially when you don't expect to have seen them that way. It will make much more sense later. But yeah, the reason I think TBI is such a great book is because of what he does with the characters. So If I can borrow a cliche, keep reading and see if you like it by the end.

So I'm *supposed* to feel like tossing the book aside and going to read something else where the characters have actual motivations?

That happened to me as well. I resigned myself to finishing book 1 and walking away. Something happened near the end of book 1 that made me glad I stuck it out. I found book 2 to be even better.

[D'rek]

amphibian, on 02 October 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:

No, you're supposed to feel like "this band of adventurers has been done so many times before" for a brief moment - and then the real story starts kicking in. It's decidedly meaner and more interesting than let's say... Tolkien's LotR adventurers.

Glokta in particular is one of the best characters to appear in fantasy in recent years. Jezal and Logen have their martial abilities subverted as well.

What "band of adventurers" ? There's no swordsman+archer+dwarf+wizard+gnome group going on here. The closest thing to a "band of adventurers" is one guy who walked around in the woods for a while on his own, then walked some more with a sick guy who he barely talked to, then he met up with another guy and stood in a room doing nothing, now he's walking through the woods with the sick guy and the other guy and they're still barely talking. He actually straight up says "Don't tell me where we are going or why you [this is a person he's never met or heard of before] summoned me, I don't want to know." !!!

Say what you will about "bands of adventurers" but LotR's fellowship was a diverse group from different parts of the world who interacted, shared stories, got riled up, etc while they were journeying, and right from the get-go they knew where they were headed (Mordor) and why (destroy the ring).

In contrast, the most interesting storyline in this book is about 1 guy, then 3 guys, from the same place, who barely even speak to each other about anything of importance, with the only PoV character not knowing or caring where they are going or why.

It doesn't count as "suberting" tropes if you just replace them with bland nothingness.

QuickTidal, on 02 October 2014 - 05:41 PM, said:

Yeah, Amph's got the right of it. You're definitely supposed to be put off by the tropes at play, and that's when Abercrombie starts twisting and turning things.

300 pages so far and I don't see any twists. Logen is still obstinate and knows nothing, Glokta still hates stairs. Jezal's self-obsessiveness and angst has increased ten-fold. And still none of them have any motivations or any sort of long-term plans. Only reason I'm still reading at this point is because I'm compulsive enough to feel the need to finish the book (but not the series, thank god).

[Serenity]

I finished the Meluch's The Sagittarius Command last night and today I've been reading one of Alastair Reynolds' novellas, Troika, which is rather good.

[QuickTidal]

Yeah, it sounds like you've already signed off Drek. You may as well not bother.

Tropes messed with:

Amazeballs swordsman is actually a dickish, preening fool who could not fight a real fight if he tried.

Powerful Wizard who is either from antiquity, or masquerading as someone from antiquity is actually an even bigger dick than the swordsman is and is all about machinations and being a puppetmaster.

Humble, seemingly altruistic Barbarian from misunderstood north is actually a berserker madman who forgets who he is and what he's doing when fighting (think the Hulk).

Crippled asshole torturer is actually the most clever man around and is a master manipulator.

Stalwart, brave, and honest commanding military man is actually a cowardly rapist assclown who can't see past his own words to his deeds.

Foreign slave on a quest to find vengeance is actually far too bent in that direction to know what she's doing most of the time...kind of like Monza from BSC actually...just with a lot less skill.

I think if you're not down with such character studies, it may not be the series for you?

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 02 October 2014 - 07:38 PM

[Slow Ben]

Just finished Abrahams "Tyrants Law". Still digging the series. Starting Widows House as soon as i get my brothers copy.

[worry]

Coincidentally I just finished Red Country and went back and read the Abercrombie story from Dangerous Women. So good. I don't remember how strong it was in First Law (perhaps flourishes in more traditional narration), but somewhere in the midst of FL and definitely by BSC he must have gone and (re)watched Deadwood because he becomes one of the sharpest, wittiest writers in the biz. It's most overt (and perhaps most masterful) in RC, from the dialogue, the internal monologue, and even the bursting-with-personality narration, but it's there throughout the standalones. It's like David Chase with a dash of the squirreliness of Groucho or Blazing Saddles at their most cynical. So many fantastic turns of phrase, and Shy South in particular is a crowning achievement.

[amphibian]

Yeah, Red Country jumped right up below McMurtry's Westerns for my favorite books of that genre. It's a very cool way of working his characters into a general and distinct from his previous Euro-wars setting that we readily recognize because Westerns are everywhere, while being entirely his story.

[amphibian]

My favorite thing about Abercrombie's work is that the crippled, fearful jerk torturer guy used to be the incredibly vain, golden aristocrat with barely a worry to his head. Abercrombie took his privilege away physically and socially, then made him the type that would somehow adapt to that.

It's a very interesting character and normally authors in fantasy focus on the able who are physically/magically/mentally amazing. Glokta's not really that clever, but he's so hampered physically that his character becomes one of the more unique and interesting around the SF field.

[worry]

Yah I think QT hit the nail on the head when he described that first trilogy in terms of "character studies". That's not all they are (particularly past the first book), but it's definitely a primary descriptor. And it was a genuine pleasure to see him progress from good to great.

[D'rek]

QuickTidal, on 02 October 2014 - 07:37 PM, said:

Yeah, it sounds like you've already signed off Drek. You may as well not bother.

Tropes messed with:

Amazeballs swordsman is actually a dickish, preening fool who could not fight a real fight if he tried.

Powerful Wizard who is either from antiquity, or masquerading as someone from antiquity is actually an even bigger dick than the swordsman is and is all about machinations and being a puppetmaster.

Humble, seemingly altruistic Barbarian from misunderstood north is actually a berserker madman who forgets who he is and what he's doing when fighting (think the Hulk).

Crippled asshole torturer is actually the most clever man around and is a master manipulator.

Stalwart, brave, and honest commanding military man is actually a cowardly rapist assclown who can't see past his own words to his deeds.

Foreign slave on a quest to find vengeance is actually far too bent in that direction to know what she's doing most of the time...kind of like Monza from BSC actually...just with a lot less skill.

I think if you're not down with such character studies, it may not be the series for you?

Hey, that actually sounds interesting. If only some of those were actually even hinted at in the first 300 pages...?

(Ok, Jezal is certainly a dick in the first 300p, but he hasn't even been close to a "real" fight so far so no way to know about that one way or another, while Ferro has had literally one chapter so not much to go on there. Haven't seen any master manipulating going on from Glokta whatsoever so far, he just goes about interviewing people as per his job. Nothing from West so far. Logen has fought a bit but no signs of him losing his head when he does yet, nor does he seem all that altruistic... he's just lazy. Bayaz hasn't done anything to suggest being a dick or being a manipulator other than being harsh with his apprentice yet - he hardly says anything at all.)

Who knows, maybe the last 200p will make all seem good, I'm just saying so far I've been tempted to put it down.