[QuickTidal]

Figured we may as well have a thread as this is going to go on a long time.

Here's a thread showing the SAG-AFTRA asks, and the response from studios....it's....um....pretty fucked up how little ground the studios are willing to give...holy shit.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 18 July 2023 - 04:59 PM

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 18 July 2023 - 04:58 PM, said:

Figured we may as well have a thread as this is going to go on a long time.

Here's a thread showing the SAG-AFTRA asks, and the response from studios....it's....um....pretty fucked up how little ground the studios are willing to give...holy shit.

Brutal.
The two sides really are worlds apart. Barely speaking the same language.

[Tsundoku]

I believe elsewhere they're called "Labour" and "Capital".
Seems pretty consistent with every other industry when framed that way.

[QuickTidal]

Some of the smaller asks that got rejected, or the rebuttal suggestion won't fix the issue seem like such MILD things to give in to from the Studio side and they still refuse...this has definitely become the Capitalists VS everyone else, as opposed to a work dispute...like Billionaires VS the working class.

I also like that the Unions got in front of the thing the studios pulled last time (2008 strike) where the studios pointed only at the tippy top of Union earners and turning to the public and being like "See!? Look at these rich Hollywood people complaining they aren't getting enough millions! What whiners!"....by getting a LOT of transparency out there on numbers and data to show that underneath that tiny fraction of high earners is the whole industry of people struggling day to day to make ends meet, that was hella smart to kneecap any attempt by the studios to pull the same shit this time....Kimiko Lee from OITNB said that MOST of the cast....not day players, or extras, but MAINLINE cast had to keep jobs as like bartenders and shit because Netflix was nickel and dimming them on pay....while they were literally globally famous and recognized and OITNB was Netflix's biggest subscriber draw.

These studios are fucking VAMPIRES.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 19 July 2023 - 12:13 PM

[Abyss]

The disconnect between studios/production co.s as business entities whose purpose is to make money, and people in the industry who genuinely want to work in it and make entertainment, is MASSIVE.

It's made worse by the way the industry evolved... streaming came along, changed the game, changed it again, CGI/AI advanced, changed it AGAIN... the industry is flailing to keep its hands on the money as competition and viewer choice and viewers having less money to spend... the actors and writers and everyone else are the same people with less money and fully aware that they're getting hugely screwed.

AM very curious to see who flinches first. The industry can hire scabs... for every job there is someone out there willing to do it at the old rate. The actors/writers... in theory they can get other jobs.. some already had those, some can live with a career change (some not so much).

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 19 July 2023 - 02:11 PM, said:

The disconnect between studios/production co.s as business entities whose purpose is to make money, and people in the industry who genuinely want to work in it and make entertainment, is MASSIVE.

It's made worse by the way the industry evolved... streaming came along, changed the game, changed it again, CGI/AI advanced, changed it AGAIN... the industry is flailing to keep its hands on the money as competition and viewer choice and viewers having less money to spend... the actors and writers and everyone else are the same people with less money and fully aware that they're getting hugely screwed.

AM very curious to see who flinches first. The industry can hire scabs... for every job there is someone out there willing to do it at the old rate. The actors/writers... in theory they can get other jobs.. some already had those, some can live with a career change (some not so much).

Scabs in this strike will become absolute pariahs after the dust settles though. The whole industry will blackball them hard. So anyone doing that work will basically have to decide if they want to make some money right now during the strike....and then go work in another industry after, or not cross that line at all. I expect more of the latter will exist.

I don't think Scabs will be easy to come by this time. And TV can't even do what it did in 2008 and drop into a massive reality TV timeline....that chicken flew the coop only once, audiences are not going to fall for it a second time.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Quote

strike could drag on until Christmas and come the New Year, audiences will have no new content to watch so will cancel their subscriptions.

By the time agreements with the unions are made, ['billionaire entertainment titan' aka all-devouring fat cat titan?] fears revenue at streaming giants will have sunk so low that it cannot afford to film any new shows or movies.

Barry Diller says Hollywood strikes over streamers like Netflix could collapse entire industry | Fortune

A New Hope:

Quote

A US company says it has cracked the formula for making an episode of South Park using artificial intelligence – and it allows users to be the star of the show.

Fable Simulation has created an AI tool that can create brief original episodes of the cartoon. "Not just the dialogue. It animates, it does the voices, it does the editing,"

AI tool creates South Park episodes with user in starring role | Artificial intelligence (AI) | The Guardian

And even more Hope:

Quote

[...] studios would be better off replacing executives with Al rather than writers. [...] decided to consult an expert on this question: ChatGPT. [...]

Which job would be easier for Al to perform: screenwriter or corporate CEO?

Between the two, it is more likely that Al would be better suited for tasks related to a corporate CEO than screenwriting. As a CEO, much of the decision-making process is based on data analysis, risk assessment, and resource allocation, which are areas where Al is particularly effective. Al can process large amounts of data quickly and accurately, identify patterns and trends, and provide insights that can help inform strategic decision-making. [...] Al may be able to analyze data on successful screenplays and provide insights into what elements are most popular, but ultimately, the creative process of writing a compelling screenplay relies on human intuition and emotion. In conclusion, while Al can assist with some aspects of both roles, it is more likely to be better suited for tasks related to a corporate CEO than screenwriting.
Michael Levine quoted on Facebook

Would be ironic if it drove the accelerated development of AI generated content. To some extent it will, but not enough to make much of a difference most likely---except possibly in animation.

The pay for residuals for writers and non-leading roles---even for very successful shows---is so ridiculously low that I imagine most have alternative sources of income, or at least did not too long ago (and given the current job market in the US they probably won't have much trouble finding a new temporary job, or enough gigs to last until the new year...).

Quote

jana @janaunplgd

To fans of my character Bev on Reservation Dogs, here's a peek behind the IHS counter at what part of my residuals looks like for acting on a show that | love. I pull in $.03 each quarter for UNLIMITED world wide streams on fx/hulu/DISNEY.

& Iger is yachting.

Where Are My Residuals? Actors/Writers Share Horror Stories On Picket Line, Social Media (yahoo.com)

[QuickTidal]

Azath Vitr (D, on 20 July 2023 - 06:38 PM, said:

Barry Diller says Hollywood strikes over streamers like Netflix could collapse entire industry

I mean GOOD, right? The whole system is broken, and in the last 20 years it's only gotten worse for everyone working in it that NOT at the top of their respective food chain. Something has to give.

Also, rumour has it that Bob Iger is looking to sell Disney to Apple. Which, the optics are pretty clear. Disney Shareholders are probably annoyed about the strikes and can smell that change is coming this time, come hell or high water...and they want to get their millions out and dip before those changes mean less profits. So the cowardly move is to sell to a big corporation and run with your money, this includes fucking Iger.

I don't like the notion of one such big corporation eating another like this into one...and I would HOPE the SEC or some govt body goes all the way of the ass of everyone involved in such a purchase.


But yeah...these studio fat cats and super wealthy shareholders would rather fuck off with their money, than pay their industry workers better and not try to steal their likenesses for AI to recreate...

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 20 July 2023 - 06:46 PM

[worry]

Well, the DOJ & FTC just announced yesterday they're seeking new anti-monopoly 'merger guidelines': https://www.commondr...rger-guidelines

[Abyss]

What does a collapse look like for an industry based on creative output?
It's not like running out of oil or people stop buying shark fin soup... America can be as America-centric as it wants but Korea is still producing Squid Game knock offs, Japan is making cartoons, Brazil is making 100+ episode soap operas, and Netflix is perfectly happy to buy them and run them. Hell, CBC is still producing dramas. Is the BBC still making Coronation Street or Downton Abbey: The Next Generation? I doubt Netflix can survive on Sailor Moon rips and redubbed French Canadian parodies, but they're not going to fold up and die either.


Sooner or later a deal will be struck simply because someone on both sides will have had enough.


Could be a while tho'.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Abyss, on 20 July 2023 - 07:27 PM, said:

What does a collapse look like for an industry based on creative output?
It's not like running out of oil or people stop buying shark fin soup... America can be as America-centric as it wants but Korea is still producing Squid Game knock offs, Japan is making cartoons, Brazil is making 100+ episode soap operas, and Netflix is perfectly happy to buy them and run them. Hell, CBC is still producing dramas. Is the BBC still making Coronation Street or Downton Abbey: The Next Generation? I doubt Netflix can survive on Sailor Moon rips and redubbed French Canadian parodies, but they're not going to fold up and die either.

Sooner or later a deal will be struck simply because someone on both sides will have had enough.

Could be a while tho'.

For people who don't like subtitles, AI lip translation dubs will become an option:

Quote

Google is testing a powerful new translation service that redubs video in a new language while also synchronizing the speaker's lips with words they never spoke.

[...] matching style and tone

'Universal translator' dubs and lip-syncs speakers — but Google warns against misuse | TechCrunch

AI can also change accents---so people who have trouble understanding a thick accent will eventually also have that as an option (probably without needing to alter the lips (which could compromise some of the expressivity of the face while speaking...)). Could be a boon for English-language content from India or the EU, possibly even from Japan (among other countries).

Quote

U.K. Union Equity Says "SAG-AFTRA Has Our Total Solidarity," Unveils Advice for Members

"Its strike is lawful according to United States law but we have been advised by our U.K. lawyers that it is not lawful under United Kingdom law," it says in setting out advice for its members[...]

[...] "Industrial relations legislation in the United Kingdom is draconian, and often viewed as the most restrictive in the Western world," [...] "The convoluted and pernicious hurdles faced by all unions in the United Kingdom are a national disgrace and need urgent reform. The regrettable consequence of this framework is that what artists working in the United Kingdom — whether SAG-AFTRA and/or Equity members (or both) — can do, may be different from their comrades in the United States and other parts of the world."

[...] a performer joining the strike in the U.K. "will have no protection against being dismissed or sued for breach of contract by the producer or the engaged,"

Actors Strike: U.K. Union Equity: "SAG-AFTRA Has Our Total Solidarity" – The Hollywood Reporter

Huh. So apparently if a production by a US-domiciled company is being made in the UK, the UK rules hold, even for actors who are in SAG-AFTRA but not Equity? But:

Quote

In the UK, the production of Wicked, starring Ariana Grande, has been shut down. Beetlejuice and Deadpool 3 are also reported to be significantly affected.

US actors' union grants 39 film and TV productions exemption from strike action as UK and Australian works halted | US actors' strike 2023 | The Guardian

[Abyss]

Delayed, sure, but there is no way on this planet that anything less than the unfortunate mass death of the entire cast and crew will prevent Deadpool 3 from being made, tho i could see Beetlejuice 2: Beetlejuicier being tossed as the bad idea it is. Wicked... even odds. I can believe there's a market for it but if the stars found something else to do i could see a studio claiming the loss and walking away.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 21 July 2023 - 02:11 AM, said:

Delayed, sure, but there is no way on this planet that anything less than the unfortunate mass death of the entire cast and crew will prevent Deadpool 3 from being made, tho i could see Beetlejuice 2: Beetlejuicier being tossed as the bad idea it is. Wicked... even odds. I can believe there's a market for it but if the stars found something else to do i could see a studio claiming the loss and walking away.

BEETLEJUICE 2 is like 3/4 done shooting…it’s coming out.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 21 July 2023 - 11:42 AM, said:

Abyss, on 21 July 2023 - 02:11 AM, said:

Delayed, sure, but there is no way on this planet that anything less than the unfortunate mass death of the entire cast and crew will prevent Deadpool 3 from being made, tho i could see Beetlejuice 2: Beetlejuicier being tossed as the bad idea it is. Wicked... even odds. I can believe there's a market for it but if the stars found something else to do i could see a studio claiming the loss and walking away.

BEETLEJUICE 2 is like 3/4 done shooting…it's coming out.

Maybe.
Otoh, so was Batgirl.

[QuickTidal]

I think the fight they’d have to have with Tim Burton if they tried to destroy his film would be much bigger than anything the first time directors of BATGIRL could manage.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Quote

ongoing strikes could push studios to rapidly invest in advancing AI technology [...]

[...] "Companies are accelerating their investment in these new technologies, because of these strikes."

'Arrogant' striking actors and writers could accelerate AI even further, tech CEO warns (msn.com)

Quote

When I voiced my fear of AI to friends on the [SAG-AFTRA] picket lines [...] everyone says the same thing: "I tried to use ChatGPT and it sucks." It sucks at jokes. It sucks at dialogue. It even sucks at taglines. But what they don't realize is that it sucks on purpose. OpenAI spent a ton of time and money training ChatGPT to be as predictable, conformist, and non-threatening as possible. OpenAI has already built programs that are capable of things that most people assume AI will never be able to do.

This Book of Poetry Written by AI Should Scare the Hell Out of You (yahoo.com)

Quote

Now, the CEOs give the air of factory owners pissed off that their "workers" aren't making "the stuff" they need for their shelves. [...]

[...] the studios and the streamers think they can win against encroaching generative AI video tech companies—and I'm telling you these GAI companies are going to eat their lunch.

[...] All of this greed and competition by the studios and streamers will crater this industry and will destroy a century-old business. And if that happens, these CEOs will go down in history as the ones who, when they had the football—passed down from decade to decade—not only lost the game, but they burned down the entire stadium.

For all this ego-fueled obstinacy, that will be their legacy.

Justine Bateman on the Destruction of the Film Business (yahoo.com)

Behold the future:

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 03 August 2023 - 11:30 PM

[Tsundoku]

So it seems those yahoo links can't be reached? By me at least anyway.

It's the AIs!

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Tsundoku, on 04 August 2023 - 03:55 PM, said:

So it seems those yahoo links can't be reached? By me at least anyway.

It's the AIs!

These should work:

This Book of AI Poetry Should Scare the Hell Out of You (thedailybeast.com)

Justine Bateman on the Destruction of the Film Business (thedailybeast.com)

... if not, then yes it's probably Skynet... Earth is saved (from humanity...)!

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 04 August 2023 - 04:11 PM