[Tiste Simeon]

So

I thought after the discussion today I'd start this dedicated thread to all things Michelle West. It seems there's a lot of us at least on the cusp of reading some of her works.

QT is the local expert it seems so go bother him with any big questions but I for one will hope up use this as a place to sort out what's actually going on.

The thing is I'm listening to it and as such a lot of the names and ranks can get a bit confusing because a lot of them sound the same even if when written down they may be different.

Remember spoiler tags where needed! I'll post my thoughts in a bit, relating to the first few hours of material I've listened to.

[QuickTidal]

Feel free to ask me questions, but I am only 7 books into the overall series thus far, so my knowledge is confined to those books....but world building stuff and characters stuff I can probably answer to a satisfactory degree.

Thanks for starting the thread Tiste!

For Tiste's (and anyone else's benefits)

The Southern Dominion of Annagar (please note that the Annagarians are deeply patriarchal):

Tyr'agar - Ruler of the Dominion

Tyr'agnate - Ruler of one of the Five Terreans of the Dominion (Think of them like Dukes, and their fiefs)

Tyr - A sort of short form of address for the Tyr'agar himself, or the Tyr'agnate's

Tyran - Personal Bodyguard of a Tyr

Tor'agar - A noble who serves a Tyr

Tor'agnate - A noble in service to a Tor'agar.

Tor - Same as Tyr, but for Tor'agar/Tor'agnate

Toran - You get the picture here right? a personal bodyguard of a Tor

Ser - A clansman

Serra - The primary wife and legitimate daughters of a clansman.

Kai - The holder or first in line for the clan title

Par - the brother of the first in line; or direct son of the title holder

The Empire of Essalieyan (Northern region)


The Empire of Essalieyan is a very large and cosmopolitian theocracy run by the Twin Kings , King Reymalyn the Justice-born King (i.e. the mortal son of the previous King Reymalyn's wife and the God Reymaris) and King Cormalyn the Wisdom-born King (i.e. the mortal son of the previous King Cormalyn's wife and the God Cormaris).

There are multiple Noble Houses, all of whom have their own cultures and ways of operating, and have their own security and whatnot. The main Houses we see in the early books are House Terafin and House Kalakar (but there are others) and the characters in the North usually fit into one of them.

The main city is massive and is known as Averalaan, it's divided into many districts, and there is an island off the coast (very close) of Averalaan that a bridge crosses over to called Averalaan Aramarelas and that's where the Noble Houses are, and where the palace is.

Hope that primer helps!

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 20 April 2023 - 07:33 PM

[Cyphon]

Can I suggest the reading order is put right up front because when I get to this series I'll get confused and forget.

[Tiste Simeon]

From QT in the other thread:

THE HIDDEN CITY (House War #1)
CITY OF NIGHT (House War #2)
HOUSE NAME (House War #3) & THE SACRED HUNT (Duology that covers much of the same events as HOUSE NAME, but from other character angles)
THE BROKEN CROWN (Sun Sword #1)
THE UNCROWNED KING (Sun Sword #2)
THE SHINING COURT (Sun Sword #3)
SEA OF SORROWS (Sun Sword #4)
THE RIVEN SHIELD (Sun Sword #5)
THE SUN SWORD (Sun Sword #6)
SKIRMISH (House War #4)
BATTLE (House War #5)
ORACLE (House War #6)
FIRSTBORN (House War #7)
WAR (House War #8)

Not released yet
HUNTER'S REDOUBT (The Burning Crown #1)
UNTITLED (The Burning Crown #2)
UNTITLED (The Burning Crown #3)

From what I understand you can jump in at the beginning of any series, which is good as I am only going to do Sun Sword, and am a few hours into book 1.

[Tiste Simeon]

Here's some of my thoughts, I'm in chapter 8 but the first two didn't seem to be counted as chapters...

Spoiler

I think I'm getting the gist of things - there appears to be a "Dominion" an "Empire" and a land full of demons? Though recently it turns out the "Dominion" call those of the "Empire" the demons so maybe they're not actually demons but powerful magic users?

There is definitely magic in this world and it appears to be in different ways but the person is born to it. The one I seem to know the most about is the Bard-born, who are singers and they have a "voice" with which they can compel (in more powerful cases) or manipulate (in more subtle cases) but I think that women aren't allowed to have a "voice"? Sera Theresa and Deorra seem to be saying this anyway.

There are those who are healer-born and it seems healing is a highly sought after and dangerous skill to have... There is also something about God-born and they have golden eyes but in the "Dominion" they kill those babies?

This links to the first two chapters that aren't numbered... The first one is about a healer-born trainee that is abducted by a demon (or perhaps just someone she thinks is a demon who has powerful magic). She is raped and impregnated with someone that a seer who turns up seems to think will kill everyone or become a powerful, dangerous force. The seer tells her the only way she can save the world is to allow the baby to be born.

Then the same demon turns up at the home of an older woman who is some kind of peasant but used to be in a harem. He has the baby (with golden eyes) and asks her to come with him and teach the child "to be human" which kind of spikes my "they're not really demons" theory.

Then we come to the numbered chapters, following a minor noble family - Sendari, his sister Theresa and his daughter Deorra. We meet Kaladin, a bard from the "Empire" and possibly an assassin? Anyway he becomes mates with Theresa and forces a healer to heal one of the women in Sendaris harem to something that could bankrupt Sendari but the healer marries the woman instead.

I think Deorra and Theresa are Bard-born because they have the "Voice" but they keep it secret...

There's some kind of festival to the Lady (night time and some kind of test of strength and magic so Sendari can become a "Widden" whatever that is?

Skipped forward 11 years and Deorra is about to marry the son of the Tear Agar who is the big cheese of the whole "Dominion" and that's about where I'm up to... There's some dude who is said to carry the Sun Sword and I've no idea what that means but the "Dominion" seems to be a very regimented, patriarchal society so it's probably a position of power, magic and honour.

Sorry it went on for a long time that post haha I have been thinking about these books for a while and I needed to unpack my thoughts QT feel free to correct me or whatever hah.

[pat5150]

Tiste Simeon, on 20 April 2023 - 08:08 PM, said:

Here's some of my thoughts, I'm in chapter 8 but the first two didn't seem to be counted as chapters...

Spoiler

I think I'm getting the gist of things - there appears to be a "Dominion" an "Empire" and a land full of demons? Though recently it turns out the "Dominion" call those of the "Empire" the demons so maybe they're not actually demons but powerful magic users?

There is definitely magic in this world and it appears to be in different ways but the person is born to it. The one I seem to know the most about is the Bard-born, who are singers and they have a "voice" with which they can compel (in more powerful cases) or manipulate (in more subtle cases) but I think that women aren't allowed to have a "voice"? Sera Theresa and Deorra seem to be saying this anyway.

There are those who are healer-born and it seems healing is a highly sought after and dangerous skill to have... There is also something about God-born and they have golden eyes but in the "Dominion" they kill those babies?

This links to the first two chapters that aren't numbered... The first one is about a healer-born trainee that is abducted by a demon (or perhaps just someone she thinks is a demon who has powerful magic). She is raped and impregnated with someone that a seer who turns up seems to think will kill everyone or become a powerful, dangerous force. The seer tells her the only way she can save the world is to allow the baby to be born.

Then the same demon turns up at the home of an older woman who is some kind of peasant but used to be in a harem. He has the baby (with golden eyes) and asks her to come with him and teach the child "to be human" which kind of spikes my "they're not really demons" theory.

Then we come to the numbered chapters, following a minor noble family - Sendari, his sister Theresa and his daughter Deorra. We meet Kaladin, a bard from the "Empire" and possibly an assassin? Anyway he becomes mates with Theresa and forces a healer to heal one of the women in Sendaris harem to something that could bankrupt Sendari but the healer marries the woman instead.

I think Deorra and Theresa are Bard-born because they have the "Voice" but they keep it secret...

There's some kind of festival to the Lady (night time and some kind of test of strength and magic so Sendari can become a "Widden" whatever that is?

Skipped forward 11 years and Deorra is about to marry the son of the Tear Agar who is the big cheese of the whole "Dominion" and that's about where I'm up to... There's some dude who is said to carry the Sun Sword and I've no idea what that means but the "Dominion" seems to be a very regimented, patriarchal society so it's probably a position of power, magic and honour.

For the record, I maintain that The Sun Sword should be read first. It was written first and I doubt that Jewel's origin story would capture the imagination the way the Sun Sword will.

Regarding your thoughts:

Spoiler

The Dominion is a patriarchal society based on Arabic and feudal Japanese cultures. They call people from the Empire demons because magic-users and the training those born with the talent is more widespread. In the Dominion, magic is controlled by an order known as the Sword of Knowledge. Anyone caught with the talent who hasn't passed the Sword of Knowledge's test is killed. Which is why Serra Diora and Serra Teresa voice-magic must remain a secret. Otherwise they would have been put to death. Sendari took the test to become one of them, a Widdan.

The demon court in this world, known as the Shining Court, lies in the Northern Wastes. They are preparing to reclaim the world of man. The last time this happened, centuries before, the Lord gave clan Leonne the means by which to win against the demons: the Sun Sword. To this day, only someone with Leonne blood can wield it.

Healing is important, but it takes an enormous toll on both the healer and the patient. Will not say more because you'll learn more about this as the series goes on.

Lord Isladar, one of the oldest and most powerful demon, is the one you see in the prologue. Basically, this overlon prologue recounts how Kiriel came to be.

Kallandras is Bard-trained and a total badass. But there is a lot more to his backstory.I still don't know the half of it, but think about something along the lines of Quick Ben.

[Abyss]

As I have both series, am going to follow published order and start w THE BROKEN CROWN.

[JPK]

Abyss, on 21 April 2023 - 03:24 AM, said:

As I have both series, am going to follow published order and start w THE BROKEN CROWN.

Are you going the earbook route per usual?

[Tiste Simeon]

pat5150, on 20 April 2023 - 11:23 PM, said:

Tiste Simeon, on 20 April 2023 - 08:08 PM, said:

Here's some of my thoughts, I'm in chapter 8 but the first two didn't seem to be counted as chapters...

Spoiler

I think I'm getting the gist of things - there appears to be a "Dominion" an "Empire" and a land full of demons? Though recently it turns out the "Dominion" call those of the "Empire" the demons so maybe they're not actually demons but powerful magic users?

There is definitely magic in this world and it appears to be in different ways but the person is born to it. The one I seem to know the most about is the Bard-born, who are singers and they have a "voice" with which they can compel (in more powerful cases) or manipulate (in more subtle cases) but I think that women aren't allowed to have a "voice"? Sera Theresa and Deorra seem to be saying this anyway.

There are those who are healer-born and it seems healing is a highly sought after and dangerous skill to have... There is also something about God-born and they have golden eyes but in the "Dominion" they kill those babies?

This links to the first two chapters that aren't numbered... The first one is about a healer-born trainee that is abducted by a demon (or perhaps just someone she thinks is a demon who has powerful magic). She is raped and impregnated with someone that a seer who turns up seems to think will kill everyone or become a powerful, dangerous force. The seer tells her the only way she can save the world is to allow the baby to be born.

Then the same demon turns up at the home of an older woman who is some kind of peasant but used to be in a harem. He has the baby (with golden eyes) and asks her to come with him and teach the child "to be human" which kind of spikes my "they're not really demons" theory.

Then we come to the numbered chapters, following a minor noble family - Sendari, his sister Theresa and his daughter Deorra. We meet Kaladin, a bard from the "Empire" and possibly an assassin? Anyway he becomes mates with Theresa and forces a healer to heal one of the women in Sendaris harem to something that could bankrupt Sendari but the healer marries the woman instead.

I think Deorra and Theresa are Bard-born because they have the "Voice" but they keep it secret...

There's some kind of festival to the Lady (night time and some kind of test of strength and magic so Sendari can become a "Widden" whatever that is?

Skipped forward 11 years and Deorra is about to marry the son of the Tear Agar who is the big cheese of the whole "Dominion" and that's about where I'm up to... There's some dude who is said to carry the Sun Sword and I've no idea what that means but the "Dominion" seems to be a very regimented, patriarchal society so it's probably a position of power, magic and honour.

For the record, I maintain that The Sun Sword should be read first. It was written first and I doubt that Jewel's origin story would capture the imagination the way the Sun Sword will.

Regarding your thoughts:

Spoiler

The Dominion is a patriarchal society based on Arabic and feudal Japanese cultures. They call people from the Empire demons because magic-users and the training those born with the talent is more widespread. In the Dominion, magic is controlled by an order known as the Sword of Knowledge. Anyone caught with the talent who hasn't passed the Sword of Knowledge's test is killed. Which is why Serra Diora and Serra Teresa voice-magic must remain a secret. Otherwise they would have been put to death. Sendari took the test to become one of them, a Widdan.

The demon court in this world, known as the Shining Court, lies in the Northern Wastes. They are preparing to reclaim the world of man. The last time this happened, centuries before, the Lord gave clan Leonne the means by which to win against the demons: the Sun Sword. To this day, only someone with Leonne blood can wield it.

Healing is important, but it takes an enormous toll on both the healer and the patient. Will not say more because you'll learn more about this as the series goes on.

Lord Isladar, one of the oldest and most powerful demon, is the one you see in the prologue. Basically, this overlon prologue recounts how Kiriel came to be.

Kallandras is Bard-trained and a total badass. But there is a lot more to his backstory.I still don't know the half of it, but think about something along the lines of Quick Ben.

Thanks Pat! I was mostly right with my thinking haha glad I've not missed too much. Not even met Jewel yet (I don't think) so I look forward to that. Got a long way to go with just the first book let alone the other 5!

[QuickTidal]

Comments in red.

Tiste Simeon, on 20 April 2023 - 08:08 PM, said:

Here's some of my thoughts, I'm in chapter 8 but the first two didn't seem to be counted as chapters...

Spoiler

I think I'm getting the gist of things - there appears to be a "Dominion" an "Empire" and a land full of demons? Though recently it turns out the "Dominion" call those of the "Empire" the demons so maybe they're not actually demons but powerful magic users?

So the Dominion is just humans as well, but a different culture that mostly unknowingly worships the big bad as their "god", but there are demons (Kin) and Demon-kin (Kialli) who exist and hide amongst them. So not "full of demons" so much as demons are closer to them as a society due to their religious system.

They see the Empire (northerners) not as demons, but as co-opted by "heathen gods"...AKA the Godborn kings and Queens...and yes there is magic use in the North (it's pretty much outlawed in the south; which is by design of the big bad to keep them from rebelling against him).

There is definitely magic in this world and it appears to be in different ways but the person is born to it. The one I seem to know the most about is the Bard-born, who are singers and they have a "voice" with which they can compel (in more powerful cases) or manipulate (in more subtle cases) but I think that women aren't allowed to have a "voice"? Sera Theresa and Deorra seem to be saying this anyway.

Accurate, and they hide it as the only person who really is allowed to have magic in the South are the Widan's (male magic user's who serve the Tyr'agar), like Diora's dad Sendari.

There are those who are healer-born and it seems healing is a highly sought after and dangerous skill to have... There is also something about God-born and they have golden eyes but in the "Dominion" they kill those babies?

Yep, Healer-born is both a gift and curse as it can be a really dangerous thing to heal someone who is near death and it links you to them for life if you survive it. And yeah, the Southerners kill the god-born with gold eyes.

This links to the first two chapters that aren't numbered... The first one is about a healer-born trainee that is abducted by a demon (or perhaps just someone she thinks is a demon who has powerful magic).

Not just any demon either, Isladar is a really important demon who's been involved in things for centuries.

She is raped and impregnated with someone that a seer who turns up seems to think will kill everyone or become a powerful, dangerous force. The seer tells her the only way she can save the world is to allow the baby to be born.

You'll learn as lot more about Kiriel (that child) in the 2nd book. And you've just had your first encounter with Evayne A'Nolan (the Seerborn). She shows up a LOT. She's easy to suss out, dark hair, cloak, violet eyes.

Then the same demon turns up at the home of an older woman who is some kind of peasant but used to be in a harem. He has the baby (with golden eyes) and asks her to come with him and teach the child "to be human" which kind of spikes my "they're not really demons" theory.

The demons are demons, and the child of a human and the big bad, is a half demon.

Then we come to the numbered chapters, following a minor noble family - Sendari, his sister Theresa and his daughter Deorra. We meet Kaladin, a bard from the "Empire" and possibly an assassin? Anyway he becomes mates with Theresa and forces a healer to heal one of the women in Sendaris harem to something that could bankrupt Sendari but the healer marries the woman instead.

Kallandras, and yep he's a Bard and he also has links to assassins, but you'll get to that later. And yeah Diora is the main character of this book.

I think Deorra and Theresa are Bard-born because they have the "Voice" but they keep it secret...

Correct.

There's some kind of festival to the Lady (night time and some kind of test of strength and magic so Sendari can become a "Widden" whatever that is?

Widan is the only real Southern "accepted" magic users, and are always the closest advisors to the Tyr'Agar. The Lady is the God of Death, and is the benevolent side of that coin, while the Lord (their main god) is the big bad (Allasakar, the Lord of the Hells)

Skipped forward 11 years and Deorra is about to marry the son of the Tear Agar who is the big cheese of the whole "Dominion" and that's about where I'm up to... There's some dude who is said to carry the Sun Sword and I've no idea what that means but the "Dominion" seems to be a very regimented, patriarchal society so it's probably a position of power, magic and honour.

The Sun Sword is the most important piece of magic artifact that the South possesses, and without it they would be vulnerable.

Sorry it went on for a long time that post haha I have been thinking about these books for a while and I needed to unpack my thoughts QT feel free to correct me or whatever hah.

I don't want to say more as it will give away things, but you're mostly on the right track and paying attention to the right people (Theresa and Diora own this novel, with a heavy assist from Kallandras [who is only of my fave characters in the whole series])

pat5150, on 20 April 2023 - 11:23 PM, said:

For the record, I maintain that The Sun Sword should be read first. It was written first and I doubt that Jewel's origin story would capture the imagination the way the Sun Sword will.

I don't want to "well akshually" you Pat, BUT the first book written and published was the Sacred Hunt Duology, and those books cover the same events as HOUSE NAME which is the final act of Jewel's youth before the time jump...the Sun Sword came after that...so at the very least ONE of the House War books was more important to West than Sun Sword...and there are things that you benefit by from reading the House War books first, not just learning all about Jewel, but meeting her entire Den and learning their whole personalities is valuable, as is meeting Evayne and a few others. I think the most valuable things I got from reading the first 3 House War books first were meeting Meralonne (Snarky Gandalf) and seeing him interact with Jay/Jewel and the level of time and effort that West put into the villains (The demons, The Shining City ect.) and making them scary as hell. I feel like they come across not quite as scary in the Sun Sword books. In the House War books they are terrifying because we are seeing them through the eyes of a wry, but still young urchin girl. So there are benefits to reading those first...but they are nuanced reasons and reading Sun Sword first will not affect anyone here to read first. The House War books also barely TOUCH the Dominion at all, so it's almost apples and oranges.

Regarding your thoughts:

Spoiler

The demon court in this world, known as the Shining Court, lies in the Northern Wastes.

This is not quite accurate, but I only know this from the House War books so I understand why you'd think this....

This may be a MILD spoiler you might not want to know yet, but it's not a big one...still, I'll spoiler tag it anyways. It's something you would learn in the first 50 pages of the first House War book anyways.

Spoiler

The original Shining City is actually directly BENEATH Averalaan. The whole thing is mostly still there as a ruin. Averalaan was literally built on top of it. A big part of the plot of the first two House War books is Jewel, and Rath exploring it, knowing something is off about those ruins they call the "old city". The Shining City as we see/read about it in the Sun Sword books is also a sort of "state of mind" place the demons make with there powers. Like if they are all sitting in a room talking, it's not the original Shining City, but a crafted one that sort of exists in the Hells as a metaphysical place. When the Kialli discuss the return of The Shining City, they mean the one beneath Averalaan.

They are preparing to reclaim the world of man. The last time this happened, centuries before, the Lord gave clan Leonne the means by which to win against the demons: the Sun Sword. To this day, only someone with Leonne blood can wield it.

The Lady did this, not the Lord. The Lord (big bad) has no interest in stopping his followers (demons/kin/kialli) from returning him to the world of man. Also, it's only the Tyr'agar can wield it, it needn't be a Leonne (but that's into spoiler territory for even you so I'll say nothing further)


Lord Isladar, one of the oldest and most powerful demon, is the one you see in the prologue.

Indeed. Just adding that there are a lot of demons in Hell, but Isladar is the most interesting and the one who gets the most attention in the whole series, House War AND Sun Sword.

Kallandras is Bard-trained and a total badass. But there is a lot more to his backstory.I still don't know the half of it, but think about something along the lines of Quick Ben.

Yeah, Quick Ben is a solid analogue for Kallandras...and yeah his backstory is DEEP and emotional.

And for fun, here's who I know is on the cover art to help you all visualize who is who!

Spoilered for size.

Spoiler

 EssalieyanCollage.jpg (1.74MB)
Number of downloads: 10

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 21 April 2023 - 12:54 PM

[Tiste Simeon]

The main thing I took from that, QT is how off my spelling is haha.

This is clearly a wonderfully deep and well crafted world and I'm glad I'm going to stick with it...

[QuickTidal]

Tiste Simeon, on 21 April 2023 - 01:01 PM, said:

The main thing I took from that, QT is how off my spelling is haha.

This is clearly a wonderfully deep and well crafted world and I'm glad I'm going to stick with it...

I see the same thing from Abyss when he does Audiobooks, it's hard to suss out how names are spelt! LOL It's all good.

Glad you're sticking with it, it's so good as it gets properly going.

[pat5150]

Sorry Quick Tidal, totally forgot about the Sacred Hunt duology. But as far as I can tell, most fans consider them West's weakest books and don't recommend that newbies start with them. Do you feel the same way.

Personally, and I know your mileage may vary in the end, I still doubt that starting with Jewel's origin story and that of her den can reel readers in the way The Broken Crown and its sequels will. Jewel is just one part of the Sun Sword, and not the best part. At least for me.

But to anyone about to start, or considering starting, the Sun Sword or the House War books, keep in mind that it's like reading Gardens of the Moon. Lots of things don't make sense and it takes a while for them to start making sense. Which is why I believe that Malazan fans will find a lot to love about Michelle West. Because we know how to buckle up and trust the author. Anyone who needs to be spoon-fed information and needs a plot to move in a straightforward fashion will never get into either Erikson or West.

[Abyss]

JPK, on 21 April 2023 - 04:19 AM, said:

Abyss, on 21 April 2023 - 03:24 AM, said:

As I have both series, am going to follow published order and start w THE BROKEN CROWN.

Are you going the earbook route per usual?

Yep.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 21 April 2023 - 01:06 PM, said:

Tiste Simeon, on 21 April 2023 - 01:01 PM, said:

The main thing I took from that, QT is how off my spelling is haha.

This is clearly a wonderfully deep and well crafted world and I'm glad I'm going to stick with it...

I see the same thing from Abyss when he does Audiobooks, it's hard to suss out how names are spelt! LOL It's all good.

Glad you're sticking with it, it's so good as it gets properly going.

This is totally a thing and now I just embrace it.

[QuickTidal]

pat5150, on 21 April 2023 - 01:51 PM, said:

Jewel is just one part of the Sun Sword, and not the best part. At least for me.

To be fair, the House War books only exist in the way they do because Jewel is the splash out character everyone wanted to know more about when they read Sun Sword, from what I understand from West.

She's also 100% the main character of the entire Essalieyan series. She's on nearly half the covers in the series after all.

But I understand why you like the Sun Sword series as much as you do and feel people should start there...I simply think either way would work having read both myself. For example, I don't feel stunted for having started with House War 1-3.

Let me know how you feel after you get to the House War books.

EDI: Now that I think about it, perhaps reading House War 1-3 first gave me a deep appreciation of Jay so when I started Sun Sword I was already ready to enjoy her time on screen? She's SO compelling in House War.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 21 April 2023 - 02:12 PM

[pat5150]

Oh, don't worry!

I'm reading them all for sure!

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

I would absolutely recommend reading the first 3 books of House War first! They give a depth and background to the world and central characters — Jewel and her misfit family — that is important to fully appreciate everything that comes later. I also like the gradual build of scale and scope across the entire thematic universe that you get from starting with the House War books. Starting with Jewel as a nobody orphan, who gets adopted by Rath by happenstance, who finds mythical histories by happenstance, who builds a family by happenstance, who then flips the script and stops being buffetted by chance and instead starts making things happen, all the way up to the class-spanning, world-spanning events in the more recent series. And they're just good books!

Spoiler

AND they add so much color to her later relationship with Avandar. And with Ellerson! And Averalaan is a much more interesting setting than Annagar.

The Sacred Hunt duology, on the other hand, are stilted, detached, and not as well written. I think most people would be better served by reading the House War books and then skipping the Sacred Hunt books entirely.

When I did my read-through, I didn't skip the Sacred Hunt books, but I did skim them.


Here's my recommendation:

Start here – The House War, Part One
The Hidden City (2008)
City of Night (2009)
House Name (2011)

Skip or Skim - The Sacred Hunt
Hunter’s Oath (1995)
Hunter’s Death (1996)

The Sun Sword
The Broken Crown (1997)
The Uncrowned King (1998)
The Shining Court (1999)
Sea of Sorrows (2001)
The Riven Shield (2003)
The Sun Sword (2004)

The House War, Part Two
Skirmish (2012)
Battle (2013)
Oracle (2015)
Firstborn (2019)
War (2019)

This post has been edited by Whisperzzzzzzz: 21 April 2023 - 06:11 PM

[Tiste Simeon]

Abyss, on 21 April 2023 - 01:52 PM, said:

JPK, on 21 April 2023 - 04:19 AM, said:

Abyss, on 21 April 2023 - 03:24 AM, said:

As I have both series, am going to follow published order and start w THE BROKEN CROWN.

Are you going the earbook route per usual?

Yep.

The narrator is quite good. She's expressive and all but doesn't have a very wide range of voices. However, I'm finding that the way she tells the story means I'm not sure it matters, she has a good way with it so the voices are incidental.

That's my thinking on it and I'm liking her more each time I listen, you might feel differently.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

QuickTidal, on 21 April 2023 - 12:45 PM, said:

...

And for fun, here's who I know is on the cover art to help you all visualize who is who!

Spoilered for size.

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EssalieyanCollage.jpg

For the top right cover, I have a minor correction:

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The bard with the lute and the red hair is Kallandras. The blonde-haired figure is Celleriant. No?