[fievelgoespostal]

When Kalam meets her, she lets him know the Dujek rebellion was a ruse engineered by Dujek himself and Tayschrenn was in on it as well. She also claims that they werent trying to kill off the Bridgeburners. This is only believable or works if Lorn isn't in on the scheme.

Based on the private conversation Adjunct Lorn and Tay have in GoTM , I can only see 3 possibilities here. 1. Laseen is not telling the truth . 2. SE is retconning. 3. Adjunct Lorn wasnt in on the whole scheme. Lorn and Tay's convo revolved around the admission that they were trying to kill off the old guard subtly , the Bridgeburners included ( or at least Whiskeyjack and his squad). I've read the whole series before and I'm currently doing a reread, but I remember not being entirely clear on this the last time I read.

[the broken]

fievelgoespostal, on 11 March 2023 - 05:05 AM, said:

When Kalam meets her, she lets him know the Dujek rebellion was a ruse engineered by Dujek himself and Tayschrenn was in on it as well. She also claims that they werent trying to kill off the Bridgeburners. This is only believable or works if Lorn isn't in on the scheme.

Based on the private conversation Adjunct Lorn and Tay have in GoTM , I can only see 3 possibilities here. 1. Laseen is not telling the truth . 2. SE is retconning. 3. Adjunct Lorn wasnt in on the whole scheme. Lorn and Tay's convo revolved around the admission that they were trying to kill off the old guard subtly , the Bridgeburners included ( or at least Whiskeyjack and his squad). I've read the whole series before and I'm currently doing a reread, but I remember not being entirely clear on this the last time I read.

If I remember correctly, there is a purge going on, but Lorn tells Tayshrenn that Dujek is an exception. The purge is happening , but it's not 'kill all the Bridgeburners' or 'kill all the Old Guard', it's 'get rid of the ones who may plotting against the Empire.' Dujek's loyalty is beyond doubt, so they don't need to kill him.

They were trying to kill specific Bridgeburners, not wipe out them all.

[fievelgoespostal]

the broken, on 11 March 2023 - 06:54 PM, said:

fievelgoespostal, on 11 March 2023 - 05:05 AM, said:

When Kalam meets her, she lets him know the Dujek rebellion was a ruse engineered by Dujek himself and Tayschrenn was in on it as well. She also claims that they werent trying to kill off the Bridgeburners. This is only believable or works if Lorn isn't in on the scheme.

Based on the private conversation Adjunct Lorn and Tay have in GoTM , I can only see 3 possibilities here. 1. Laseen is not telling the truth . 2. SE is retconning. 3. Adjunct Lorn wasnt in on the whole scheme. Lorn and Tay's convo revolved around the admission that they were trying to kill off the old guard subtly , the Bridgeburners included ( or at least Whiskeyjack and his squad). I've read the whole series before and I'm currently doing a reread, but I remember not being entirely clear on this the last time I read.

If I remember correctly, there is a purge going on, but Lorn tells Tayshrenn that Dujek is an exception. The purge is happening , but it's not 'kill all the Bridgeburners' or 'kill all the Old Guard', it's 'get rid of the ones who may plotting against the Empire.' Dujek's loyalty is beyond doubt, so they don't need to kill him.

They were trying to kill specific Bridgeburners, not wipe out them all.

Yeah, you are right. It just dawned on me. This makes much more sense.

[Abyss]

MODGOD NOTICE OF THREAD MOVE TO GENERAL SUBFORUM
OP STATES HAS READ THE WHOLE SERIES
CAN'T DISCUSS WHOLE SERIES IN DG SUB


Three things are clarified in MoI and later books...

1. The Bridgeburners were not supposed to die at Pale
2. Laseen and co were purging the Old Guard who would never accept her rule
3. Whiskeyjack, Dujek, Tays, and Laseen had a plan to deal w the Pannion Domin and the Genabackis campaign at the same time. It required Whiskeyjack to be 'on the ground', Dujek to appear to break from Laseen, and Tays to be hidden. It mostly worked, the Domin is stopped and an alliance made w Rake and Darujhistan. It costs the Malazan Empire Dujek's Host, Whiskeyjack, Lorn, and the BBs.

[sigpig]

Abyss, on 12 March 2023 - 06:20 PM, said:

MODGOD NOTICE OF THREAD MOVE TO GENERAL SUBFORUM
OP STATES HAS READ THE WHOLE SERIES
CAN'T DISCUSS WHOLE SERIES IN DG SUB


Three things are clarified in MoI and later books...

1. The Bridgeburners were not supposed to die at Pale
2. Laseen and co were purging the Old Guard who would never accept her rule
3. Whiskeyjack, Dujek, Tays, and Laseen had a plan to deal w the Pannion Domin and the Genabackis campaign at the same time. It required Whiskeyjack to be 'on the ground', Dujek to appear to break from Laseen, and Tays to be hidden. It mostly worked, the Domin is stopped and an alliance made w Rake and Darujhistan. It costs the Malazan Empire Dujek's Host, Whiskeyjack, Lorn, and the BBs.

Pretty much lost the T'Lan Imass too, with Silverfox being completely unable to make a decision.Don't forget about Tattersail, Calot, Bellurdan, Nightchill, A'Karonys, Hairlock...

[worry]

It's well within my rights to forget about A'Karonys.

[Abyss]

sigpig, on 14 March 2023 - 03:29 AM, said:

Abyss, on 12 March 2023 - 06:20 PM, said:

MODGOD NOTICE OF THREAD MOVE TO GENERAL SUBFORUM
OP STATES HAS READ THE WHOLE SERIES
CAN'T DISCUSS WHOLE SERIES IN DG SUB


Three things are clarified in MoI and later books...

1. The Bridgeburners were not supposed to die at Pale
2. Laseen and co were purging the Old Guard who would never accept her rule
3. Whiskeyjack, Dujek, Tays, and Laseen had a plan to deal w the Pannion Domin and the Genabackis campaign at the same time. It required Whiskeyjack to be 'on the ground', Dujek to appear to break from Laseen, and Tays to be hidden. It mostly worked, the Domin is stopped and an alliance made w Rake and Darujhistan. It costs the Malazan Empire Dujek's Host, Whiskeyjack, Lorn, and the BBs.

Pretty much lost the T'Lan Imass too, with Silverfox being completely unable to make a decision.Don't forget about Tattersail, Calot, Bellurdan, Nightchill, A'Karonys, Hairlock...

Losing the Imass wasnt part of the plan, more like Laseen was planning for it.
Night chill and by extension Bellurdan were Tays' targets.
Akaronys... I think Nightchill took him out?
Calot, Hairlock, Tattersail, were all old guard but low grade, not so much targets as convenient collateral damage. I think Laseen and Tays didnt know Hairlock was actively working against them, tho WJ did.

[the broken]

Laseen never sat on the first throne, so she can't command T'lan Imass to begin with. They co operate sometimes anyway if you say to them. 'Help me, and you can kill some Jaghut'.

Nightchill was a loss anyway, she was working against them

[sigpig]

the broken, on 14 March 2023 - 03:45 PM, said:

Laseen never sat on the first throne, so she can't command T'lan Imass to begin with. They co operate sometimes anyway if you say to them. 'Help me, and you can kill some Jaghut'.

Nightchill was a loss anyway, she was working against them

That certainly didn't work out very well at Coral, did it? There was an entire army to slaughter as well as a Jaghut and a crazed Matron. Silverfox screwed that pretty succinctly.
Nightchill wanted to grab Dragnipur from Rake, and she was using Bellurdan for all the research and grunt-work, so he was basically along for the ride.

Tattersail had been ofered the rank of High Mage at least once, and she declined. Hairlock always had his own motivations.

That battle and ensuing fallout esentially emptied the Empire of High Mages, and the Mage Cadres, save Tays (and QB), putting them at a distinct disadvantage in battle. Of course, with the Witness Trilogy, we see what has eventually evolved.