[JPK]

Tiste Simeon, on 03 February 2022 - 08:02 PM, said:

So I downloaded a sample of this from Kindle and really got into it. Very interesting setting and clearly there's a lot of research into feudal Japan. So now I've bought the full book and I'm in.

I'm at 70% and it has been really good all the way through so far. I stalled out a bit this week due to other things eating my time, but this is easily one of the best books I've read in a really long time.

[Tiste Simeon]

Great to know JPK, I am about 14% now. I love the detail of the feudal Japan he writes about!

[QuickTidal]

Finshed.

Man, this book always does me in by the end. It's all just so epic. I had a number of free days while wife and kids are down with a cold (don't think it's covid) so I spent that plowing through the second half of the book.

Major end of books spoilers

Spoiler

Mariko's death always does me in. It's such a brave last stand. Like she walked into Osaka Castle KNOWING beyond a shadow of a doubt she was going to die, and even when it seems like she's going to be released the sense of impending doom still hangs over her and she walks towards it with bravery and humbleness.

I also really like Yabu's end. It makes sense that the guy who WANTED so badly to step over his culture and his liege lord to grasp power...he simply never could, and by the end he kills himself.

I also love the chapter where Blackthorne sees his old shipmates after so long away and finds them as barbaric as the Japanese did when he first landed. Clavell spends so much time devoted to slowly turning Blackthorne to the Japanese way of life and culture that you fully agree with him when he sees his old shipmates.

STELLAR book as usual. I will probably re-read TAI-PAN (the only other Clavell I've read) next before diving into GAI-JIN maybe this summer.

[Macros]

About 30% in

Might go back to read my initial thoughts of the book from several years ago in the currently reading thread at the end to compare.

Loving it, love the setting and the intrigue

Also, I know Feist says Tsuranauani is based on Korea (I think I read that somewhere) but if Kevin isn't a shade of Blackthorn I'll be damned

[Abyss]

That scene...

QuickTidal, on 08 February 2022 - 04:14 PM, said:

...

Spoiler

...
I also love the chapter where Blackthorne sees his old shipmates after so long away and finds them as barbaric as the Japanese did when he first landed. Clavell spends so much time devoted to slowly turning Blackthorne to the Japanese way of life and culture that you fully agree with him when he sees his old shipmates.

...

...has always blown me away. There is so much subtlety and character development and just damn clever writing packed into those few paragraphs that it blows my mind every time i read it.

[Macros]

Slowly catching up

Chapter 31 spoiler

Spoiler

the suicide scene.
My word that is deftly handled, his acceptance and sudden clarity to Marika's attitude to karma and life/death is just superb. And all the more impactful for its brevity

So glad I'm rereading this, I read it as a story the first time, but I'm catching a lot more depth and nuance this time through, especially how Clavell uses others bigotry and alien perspective (on all....three?) Sides as a way of showing the distance in their beliefs without having to info dump or something

[Cyphon]

Starting now... only a little late..

[Aptorian]

I guess it's also time to talk about what we should read next?

[Cyphon]

Aptorian, on 17 January 2022 - 07:34 PM, said:

Finished chapter 4.

I'm impressed with how rich the story is in detail so far. Dozens of characters, character relationships, the background history of the sailors, the history of the Japanese families, the complex culture of the village.

And I love how bizarre a lot of the Japanese characters behavior is to modern Western thinking. Fantasy authors wish they created world building half as good as this fictional Japan.

Up to the end of chapter 4 and would agree with this.

I don't know whether it's the formatting of my ebook but the shifting of POV feels quite jarring as there's often little signifier of it. Suspect it's it's formatting.

I've not read much of Japan before, the initial comparison thought in my head is daughter of the empire which riffed off Korean (?) Culture and some echoes of that here.

What I like is that so far I don't feel particularly enamoured of any character but I'm increasingly feeling engaged as the world and motivations open up.

Spoiler

Feel like Omi is being set up to be the hero of the piece, with his wife and courtesan who are "better" than what they should be and his counsel to Yabu to drive the narrative.

This post has been edited by Cyphon: 22 March 2022 - 03:29 PM

[QuickTidal]

Cyphon, on 22 March 2022 - 03:26 PM, said:

Aptorian, on 17 January 2022 - 07:34 PM, said:

Finished chapter 4.

I'm impressed with how rich the story is in detail so far. Dozens of characters, character relationships, the background history of the sailors, the history of the Japanese families, the complex culture of the village.

And I love how bizarre a lot of the Japanese characters behavior is to modern Western thinking. Fantasy authors wish they created world building half as good as this fictional Japan.

Up to the end of chapter 4 and would agree with this.

I don't know whether it's the formatting of my ebook but the shifting of POV feels quite jarring as there's often little signifier of it. Suspect it's it's formatting.

Nah, Clavell often moves around like that. It's not the formatting. You'll get used to it, and actually Clavell is pretty good at moving POVs for a reason too.

[Macros]

finished there the other day

spoilers for the whole novel

Spoiler

Just an excellent book. You look at it and see a doorstopper, 1100 pages and mid - small text and think oh gods, what have I picked up.

And not a LOT happens, when you think about it you can break it down to a few major set pieces and the rest if progression. But its done SO well that the book doesn't once drag, its never a chore (for me anyway) to keep turning the pages, my slow progress was purely down to a lack of reading time.
Some absolutely superb characters, Yabu, for all his insane bastardy actually becomes almost relatable his mind set is presented so well.
Toranaga is just the ultimate in Machiavellian manoeuvres, what a cold blooded bastard.

Anjin-san. The character development and the presentation of his personal change is handled superbly, and it is gradual it is death by inches, but the sharp contrast hits home when he meets his crew mates again and how they still wallow in their filth

I'm not a reviewer, go to Wert or Pat for that, I really really enjoyed the book on this run through, I'm off to dig up my feelings now on its first read because I can't recall.

[Macros]

not a million miles off from my first impressions 5 years ago. Although this time I am not left wanting by the ending, its Anjin Sans story, and book 6 does tie it up nicely.

I stand by my comparisons to the emprie trilogy, Feist and Wurts had definitely read Shogun before penning that series!

[Aptorian]

Mods can move this thread to the Book Club subforum when they want.

[Tiste Simeon]

93% in

Spoiler

Noo! Not Mariko! Not Erasmus! Can't see where this is going but man it's not looking good for Anjin-san!

[Tiste Simeon]

Macros, on 28 March 2022 - 07:20 AM, said:

finished there the other day

spoilers for the whole novel

Spoiler

Just an excellent book. You look at it and see a doorstopper, 1100 pages and mid - small text and think oh gods, what have I picked up.

And not a LOT happens, when you think about it you can break it down to a few major set pieces and the rest if progression. But its done SO well that the book doesn't once drag, its never a chore (for me anyway) to keep turning the pages, my slow progress was purely down to a lack of reading time.
Some absolutely superb characters, Yabu, for all his insane bastardy actually becomes almost relatable his mind set is presented so well.
Toranaga is just the ultimate in Machiavellian manoeuvres, what a cold blooded bastard.

Anjin-san. The character development and the presentation of his personal change is handled superbly, and it is gradual it is death by inches, but the sharp contrast hits home when he meets his crew mates again and how they still wallow in their filth

I'm not a reviewer, go to Wert or Pat for that, I really really enjoyed the book on this run through, I'm off to dig up my feelings now on its first read because I can't recall.

So I finished this today. Macros very much echoes my thoughts on it. Utterly superb.

Spoiler

I initially thought the ending was quite abrupt, what with the build up to the build up to this huge battle and then the result of this being a footnote at the end of the book. Then I came to the realisation that the whole book had been in reality quite a slow burner, the action being mostly through the dialogue. To have a huge battle scene at the end of it would not fit with the rest of the book.

Anjin-san I thought was one of the best examples of character development I've ever read - wholeheartedly agree with QT about the scene where he meets his crew again. Just fantastic.

So glad I read this book.

[Gorefest]

Got late to this one, about 5 chapters in. But bloody hell, I hadnt expected a fecking grimdark novel! Enthralling read so far. Interesting choice as well to jump into multiple viewpoints, surely that wasn't that common back in the day? That torture scene, jeez. Highly unpleasant read, especially because you dont even get that much of the act itself, just how people react to it, so you're left to your own imaginatiin. Disturbing stuff. Not at all what I was expecting.