[Abyss]

Aptorian, on 07 January 2022 - 08:35 PM, said:

Chapter 1.

Spoiler

Quote

But you are not to leave the village. Your crew are confined to their house and are not allowed to leave it. Do you understand?' 'Yes. Where are my crew?' Father Sebastio pointed vaguely at a cluster of houses near a wharf, obviously distressed by Omi's decision and impatience. 'There! Enjoy your freedom, pirate. Your evil's caught up with—' 'Wakarimasu ka?' Omi said directly to Blackthorne. 'He says, "Do you understand?" ' 'What's "yes" in Japanese?' Father Sebastio said to the samurai, 'Wakarimasu.' Omi disdainfully waved them away. They all bowed low. Except one man who rose deliberately, without bowing. With blinding speed the killing sword made a hissing silver arc and the man's head toppled off his shoulders and a fountain of blood sprayed the earth. The body rippled a few times and was still. Involuntarily, the priest had backed off a pace. No one else in the street had moved a muscle. Their heads remained low and motionless. Blackthorne was rigid, in shock.

What was that about? Why did that guy "challenge" the samurai? Was it an act of defiance? Or some kind of suicide by cop?

And then afterwards the samurai starts chopping the body to pieces? What the hell?

I think it's explained in a chapter or two.

[QuickTidal]

Aptorian, on 07 January 2022 - 08:35 PM, said:

Chapter 1.

Spoiler

Quote

But you are not to leave the village. Your crew are confined to their house and are not allowed to leave it. Do you understand?’ ‘Yes. Where are my crew?’ Father Sebastio pointed vaguely at a cluster of houses near a wharf, obviously distressed by Omi’s decision and impatience. ‘There! Enjoy your freedom, pirate. Your evil’s caught up with—’ ‘Wakarimasu ka?’ Omi said directly to Blackthorne. ‘He says, “Do you understand?” ’ ‘What’s “yes” in Japanese?’ Father Sebastio said to the samurai, ‘Wakarimasu.’ Omi disdainfully waved them away. They all bowed low. Except one man who rose deliberately, without bowing. With blinding speed the killing sword made a hissing silver arc and the man’s head toppled off his shoulders and a fountain of blood sprayed the earth. The body rippled a few times and was still. Involuntarily, the priest had backed off a pace. No one else in the street had moved a muscle. Their heads remained low and motionless. Blackthorne was rigid, in shock.

What was that about? Why did that guy "challenge" the samurai? Was it an act of defiance? Or some kind of suicide by cop?

And then afterwards the samurai starts chopping the body to pieces? What the hell?

Spoiler

It was a lack of sufficient respect moment by the villager (intended or not), and more of a show to the Europeans how brutally and easily the Japanese mete out Justice. It’s a shock moment, and also to show Omi’s short fuse…hacking the body to pieces was probably just to show Hohenzollern Omi and more so Yabu get off on violence.

[QuickTidal]

Book 1

Chapter 7

Spoiler

I always forget how much of a breath of fresh air Rodrigues is After the tension of the previous chapters, and how Clavell can manage to make any character he wants so INSTANTLY likeable. And this is the first inkling we and Blackthorne gets of how small time Yabu and Omi are in the hierarchy in Japan, with how much weight even Hiro-matsu’s pilot can throw around in the name of Toranaga.

[QuickTidal]

Already reached Book 2 (page 165) just finished Chapter 9.

Spoiler

The twofer of Blackthorne making them go find Rodrigues body after the storm and finding him alive (even after he clearly tried to kill Blackthorne during said storm), and then Yabu himself saving him and nearly accepting death as a result was a solid way to end this first section. You get Rodrigues who doesn't REALLY want to be friends with Blackthorne, but the fact that he saved his life really kind of puts him in a weird spot where he can at least be an "honourable villain"....while Yabu is more a direct villain PRETENDING at being honourable (I mean he did torture Pieterzoon by fucking boiling him to death over the course of a whole night; sadistic fucker) his machinations are enough that his own Nephew wants to off him.

And now onto Osaka and the first time Blackthorne meets Lord Toranaga!

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 10 January 2022 - 01:27 PM

[QuickTidal]

Chapter 10

Spoiler

This chapter is phenomenal. It contains an utterly perfect and yet enthralling description of Osaka Castle (a place that still exists as it did in the 15-1600's [aside from the main keep and a few other buildings being more modern reconstructions due to their destruction in wars]) through Blackthorne's eyes. He's astonished and impressed and a little frightened, and you'd be doing yourself a favour to look up images of the castle, and especially the grounds as Clavell describes them quite well, and it allows you to know what Toranaga is up against when it comes to Ishido. When Blackthorne says that Osaka castle makes the Tower of London look like a dirty hovel that could fit in one corner of this place, he's not lying.

Sidebar: We will be taking a trip to Japan when my daughter is ten to see family sites from our heritage and Osaka castle is near the top of my Must-See places.

Chapter 11

Spoiler

The first meeting of Blackthorne and Torunaga is a great chapter as you get a sense of not just the majesty of what people think of their head honcho Daimyo, but Clavell switches between POVs like a master. This is the point of the book where things really begin to take root and drive you forward narratively. The fixing of the peregrine's wing feels symbolic, but I forget why right now.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 11 January 2022 - 01:37 PM

[Tsundoku]

As per the Blacktongued Thief thread:

CAPT Pedantic here, shouldn't this thread be here:

https://forum.malaza.../142-book-club/

[QuickTidal]

I feel like I'm the only one who started this one other than Apt.

Anyways, I'm at Chapter 14 now.

Spoiler

The interview and Martin Alvito sweating his ass off once Blackthorne says that the rutter was stolen and now Alvito knows that he can't use the rutter as his "proof" that Blackthorne is a pirate as it would expose him as either the thief, or in cahoots with the thief...

We also get the first real interaction between Ishido and Toranaga and the more internal machinations amongst the Japanese Daimyo's and a further chunk of the history that led to the Taiko and after his death the factions amongst the Regents for the young heir.

[JPK]

Sorry QT, I'll try to be better about checking in. I'm slightly behind on my 2 chapters a day goal and I'm currently about halfway through chapter 20. Spoilers will be be everything up to there.

Spoiler

Blackthorne has really been thrown through a loop at this point. The resilience of the man is absolutely staggering. It's not just the imprisonment in absolutely horrific situations like the prison, but the whiplash effect of deprivation into what is to him lavish treatment with massage, alcohol, and feminine attention. That's a special kind of torture.

What I particularly like about him is that he's a protagonist that uses his brain instead of his body. He knows that he can't solve his problem with weapons and instead focuses on learning at much of the language as possible as quickly as possible to open up more palatable diplomatic routes. He also overall seems to be actually learning from his mistakes in lapses of politeness.

Yabu is clearly a snake and it's only a matter of time before he flips. I'm curious how much use Toranaga is going to get out of him first though. I also like that while he and Blackthorne absolutely despise one another they have come to a certain level of grudging respect after the rescue of Rodrigues. It'll be curious to see how that influences their interactions going forward now that Blackthorne clearly has the favor of Toranaga at the moment.

Toranaga is fascinating. I'm not entirely sure what his plan to get out of his current situation is, but there are three things that point to him not being nearly as fucked as things are indicating at the moment.
1- it has clearly been stated that he is currently the best general alive and was second only to the dead Taiko.
2- The manipulation of Blackthorne into the prison to get at the Jesuit as well as the rescue involving the Robin.
3- The handling of the priests. "I need a map, and trade conversions. Now.".
He's clearly manipulating the situation masterfully at the moment though his advisors are really questioning him.


I can't help but to think that the exiled priest and the captain of the Black Ship are about to set fire to the situation though.

It's still a bit early to tell, but I suspect this is going to end up as a favorite and something I reread every few years like The Count of Monte Cristo.

This post has been edited by JPK: 12 January 2022 - 04:48 PM

[QuickTidal]

No worries JPK, just felt kinda lonely in here. LOL

I wanted to mention something, I can't recall the chapter, but early on (maybe around Chapter 4 or 5?)

Spoiler

When Yabu is dealing with Blackthorne and trying to get him to behave himself the day after the 'Night of Screams' where Pieterzoon ate it, puts the youngest crew member Crooqc (who I think is 15?) into the cauldron and lights the fire and as it starts to warm up the kid starts to silently mouth his screams as tears stream down his face, and it's THAT moment that makes Blackthorne finally buckle. I felt that in my gut. When my son gets really upset over something, he does that silent mouthing thing while the tears stream down his face (usually over something silly like the it's too dark in a room or something) and I always just run to him and hug him and tell him it's okay. I feel like in that moment Blackthorne wanted nothing more than to protect this kid from a horrifying death.

It also really puts the samurai, or at least Yabu and Omi into perspective, as it shows them REALLY not disseminating between "kid stranger/possible enemy" and "adult stranger/possible enemy" and that makes them seem even more starkly ghoulish.

Which in turn will give people like Toranaga and Hiro-Matsu a chance to show Blackthorne that there are levels and layers to even the samurai, and the cruelty that they see in people like Yabu isn't monolithic in their caste.

Just a really horrifying and well-written chapter that yanked a full-tilt visceral reaction out of me.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 12 January 2022 - 05:41 PM

[Traveller]

Only just noticed this.

One of my favourite books, hands down. I read it at least once a year. I have so many quotes and favourite scenes throughout, it will be good to read other opinions on them.

[QuickTidal]

Up to Chapter 19

Spoiler

I had totally confused Kiku with Kiri and when the latter was sitting in the garden waiting for Mariko on her supposedly "ample behind" I was like....wait what? I thought she was a young concubine...then I remembered once Kiri started to talk about her miscarriage of Toranaga's child many years earlier.

How are you still alive Yabu, you bastard!

The info that Blackthorne gets in the jail call with the mad monk is another welcome bit of in-story expositions, and I like how Blackthorne wars internally with himself about whether it's a nice thing to do to take advantage of a Spanish monk who thinks he's a friend.

[JPK]

I just finished chapter 23.

Spoiler

I'm a bit surprised by the method of Toranaga's (so far attempted) escape. In a society and a character that values Honor so highly, it's interesting that this wouldn't be viewed as an action below that of a Daimyo. Let alone one of his stature.

This post has been edited by JPK: 13 January 2022 - 06:31 PM

[Traveller]

JPK, on 13 January 2022 - 06:29 PM, said:

I just finished chapter 23.

Spoiler

I'm a bit surprised by the method of Toranaga's (so far attempted) escape. In a society and a character that values Honor so highly, it's interesting that this wouldn't be viewed as an action below that of a Daimyo. Let alone one of his stature.

Spoiler

Only if he's caught. It's a massive risk, he gambles everything - but if he stays it's all over anyway, and if it succeeds then he's performed a magical escape.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 14 January 2022 - 04:20 PM

[Aptorian]

Finished chapter 4.

I'm impressed with how rich the story is in detail so far. Dozens of characters, character relationships, the background history of the sailors, the history of the Japanese families, the complex culture of the village.

And I love how bizarre a lot of the Japanese characters behavior is to modern Western thinking. Fantasy authors wish they created world building half as good as this fictional Japan.

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 17 January 2022 - 07:35 PM

[Tiste Simeon]

Downloaded the sampler of this on Kindle today. Will be starting it shortly and if I'm vibing on it I'll be getting the full thing.

[JPK]

I just finished chapter 36 which is a bit into Book 3 as well as the 50% mark.

The political maneuvering in this is absolutely masterful. I never know exactly how a character's allegiance is going to land.

Spoiler

Clavell does a good job making one hate Buntaro and Yabu. Interestingly to me, I don't feel quite the same way about Omi. His offer of friendship to Blackthorne is very interesting as is the ordered friendship of Naga.

I can't see the situation between Blackthorne and Buntaro ending well, and with the tempers involved I don't expect it's going to take too long for one of them to end up dead. Likely Buntaro, as Blackthorne is the protagonist and there's still a lot of book to cover. I wonder if Mariko can survive the fallout. Her adultery was rather ill-advised.

I'm still not sure what the endgame with Yabu is. At least he's now officially declared himself a vassal of Toranaga.

Is anyone else even close to me at this point?

[Stalker]

According to my kindle, I’m about 20% in now and cruising through it. The first time, I read the first few chapters before moving to something else. Then, as initially this time around, I had a hard time following who was who among the Japanese. The people, factions, past history. It’s all starting to come together for me now and the story is engrossing.

[Macros]

Starting now, looking forward to this, and checking spoiler tags as I go

[Macros]

Read the first 3 chapters

Spoilers up until end of chapter 3

Spoiler

the prologue is superb, you really get the sense of desperation and the fear of the storm.

And the introduction to the cast is great, Yabu is just a bastard from the get go and the political byplay is fairly well laid out without info dumping on you

[Tiste Simeon]

So I downloaded a sample of this from Kindle and really got into it. Very interesting setting and clearly there's a lot of research into feudal Japan. So now I've bought the full book and I'm in.