[Leoman of the Flails]

Not exactly sure where I should have put this thread but I figured it could relate to any of the books in the series. I just finished deadhouse gates for the eighth time in the last 3 months or so, and I cant help but wondering more about these two dudes. Icarium is by far the most intriguing character in the MBotF series, and Mappo ranks right up there aswell. Erikson should seriously considering doing more work on these guys, even a novella or two ala Korbal and Bauchelin would suffice (although it wouldnt thoroughly satiate my hunger). I just think theres way to many open ended questions left unanswered based on what we've read so far.

Why not touch-on, in-detail of course, the events that led up to Icariums amnesiac episodes? what exactly happened in that ruined city with the device in DHG? What purpose do those devices truely serve? Whats the deal with Mappo's warren-in-a-bag, or Icarium's warren-enhanced arrows?

Im sure we'll learn more as the next 5 books pan out, but this is definately something every fan of the series would need, and love, and cherish. I just need to read more about their zany exploits in which entire civilization's crumble at the hands of that crazy jagh! oh Icarium you tickle me pink.

[Folken]

We learn more of Mappo and Icarium, or well we atleast see more of them in BH. Wether we learn more of them or not no clue, could be like their appearance in HoC, but highly doubt it considering the sheer size of the novel.

And about those open ended questions...ya think? Tis the Great Erikson we speak of here. Many questions are going to remain unanswered even after the series is completed. Oh and perhaps you should read other books as well:p

edit: Now that I think on it further, I have a distinct feeling that the Nameless Ones will play a bigger role in this novel, so maybe just maybe we could learn more of his past...hmmm

[Tiste Simeon]

I'm hoping Mappo will find out that it was the nameless ones who destroyed his village - as in maybe he will team up with Icarium in his rage? Possibility?

[Set'alahd Crool]

As I understand it Tremorlor holds a frgment of the shattered KE warren in piace to prevent it wandering and causing havoc. It was attacking and shattering this already weakened/cracked(?) warren that did the damage to Icarium. The construct in the ruined city is one of his clocks, which he built in several places(Darujistahn, the bridge Trull crosses with his platoon, etc.) to keep track of time, since he can't keep track of it himself. That would mean he was already the unstable jagh we know and love when he built the clock in said ruined city. It must have been after building it that he lost the plot and destroyed the city.

Warrens carved into his arrows. He is Gothos' son, so I assume he knows a fair bit of high omtose. The idea that jaghut don't usually have family ties seems not to apply, since he tried to rescue his father. From an azath. That hints at a strong bond, no?

I don't think Mappo has witnessed Icarium in wholesale-destruction mode yet. They've been companions for about 800 years, I reckon. It seems that our tragic trell is Icarium's most successful guardian yet, preventing him from going postal.

All this is conjecture, of course. Any better ideas are welcome.
As for more about the pair, I think they will have important roles in what's to come.

[Tiste Simeon]

You say he is the most successful companion yet, though it seems that Gothos and the nameless ones would disagree. Mappos task was to get Icarium in a place where the Azath could take him. He failed, thus the others see Mappo as unsuccessful - too sentimental I believe were Gothos' words...

[Set'alahd Crool]

Well, considering all his other guardians ended up either killing themselves(ok, so only one is mentioned as having done that) or being killed by Icarium, I'd say he's done pretty well. It wasn't his job to get Icarium to the azath, but you're right in that he was expected, once there, to take advantage of the situation.

Anyway, if he had surrendered Icarium to the azath, isn't it possible Icariums automatic-remove-all-threats sub-program would've kicked in? Not that anyone there thought it would, but hey, I reckon it would've.
What would Gothos make of THAT?

[Abyss]

Gothos isn't exactly a lightweight. I mean, in MT is froze death. Just like that, pffft, here's some ice and by the way all souls on this continent stay put for the next few hundred thou years or so.

Relatedly, Icarium is Jhag, not Jaghut. He may have access to OP, but the again, maybe not.

And the 'warrens in his arrows' thing, i think, is just a way of saying they're magic arrows. I don't think each one is a mini-Dragnipur.

- Abyss, needs a mini-skykeep with a jacuzzi.

[megaphage]

I also really want that whole part of the history to be more detailed. As a duo Icarium and Mappo are a really likeable pair. They have humour, mystery, tragic friendship, physical strength, history and so much more. All of these aspects could be explored. These are two characters I really would like to read more of, and not just because they're so badass, but because they're really nice and cool.

[Tiste Simeon]

You saying Gothos may have to kill Icarium himself? Hmm... interesting and plausible.

[Set'alahd Crool]

I think if Icarium dies it will be a self sacrifice. He'll learn the truth and seek to either make amends (so far as that's possible) or remove himself as a threat.
That's IF.

In true tragic style, however, I think he'll get his memory back and be cured and all that, only to have to live with the memory of Mappo's death. The only punishment, I'm sure he'd say, that could possibly fit his crimes....

[Abyss]

I think it's fair to say Icarium can die. He's just really, really hard to kill and has a survival mechanism that may just randomly take down a civilization or two in the process.

As for tragedy, isn't it ref'd somewhere that his last keeper pre-Mappo, a Thelomen, killed themself? Bet he forgot that pretty quickly.

- Abyss, wonders if malazans purchase Icarium-insurance.

[Tiste Simeon]

Hmm... If Icarium got his memories back, Mappo died and Icarium flipped out, then he probably wouldn't remember until the next time he remembered about his past... If however Icarium killed Mappo...