[Imperial Historian]

Would your commander ability return your ct if someone moved a ship through a hex too?

[Tattersail_]

Its says into not through

[Imperial Historian]

I interpreted into as including through, as moving through a hex involves moving into it or out of it. I don't think there is a clear ruling on this.

[Khellendros]

I think I'd go with Tatts' interpretation on this one. The Empyrean's movement abilities already strike me as a bit broken (Aethestream when adjacent to an anomaly is wacko when they're everywhere). It also feels like it makes the Creuss kind of pointless, like a worse Empyrean.

This post has been edited by Khellendros: 09 February 2021 - 08:49 PM

[Imperial Historian]

I assumed it was move through as otherwise the wording could have been when an opponent activates the system. Seems weak otherwise.

[Khellendros]

Imperial Historian, on 09 February 2021 - 08:51 PM, said:

I assumed it was move through as otherwise the wording could have been when an opponent activates the system. Seems weak otherwise.

But then couldn't Empyrean remove their own tokens, just by passing through their own systems?

[Khellendros]

Oh I see it says 'another player' not 'a player'

[Khellendros]

https://www.reddit.c...ther_move_into/

Consensus seems to be that 'into' means 'activated system,' with examples about antimass deflectors and the Muaat supernova abilities being referenced as examples. If it meant 'into and out of' it would say 'through' rather than 'into,' according to a few of those posts.

[Blend]

https://www.reddit.c...tm_source=share


I see lots of talk about into meaning ships going through too due to Supernova rules reference text.

Guess we will need a Drek rules ruling on this one, because this could have some serious synergy with my other racial ability too.

[Blend]

I definitely assumed it meant an activated system, but then why not use the text "when a system is activated" instead?

[Khellendros]

The Muatt have the ability to move through supernova from the start. They can acquire a faction tech which lets them move 'into' supernova, i.e. stay there. You can move 'into' a nebula but you can't move 'through' it, i.e. you have to stay there/end up there. I'm sure there's some contradictions which can be found elsewhere but that feels like a pretty sensible interpretation to me.

[Imperial Historian]

I could see it being ruled either way, but that's why we have a mod!

[Imperial Historian]

Speaking of rulings, I was asking about how my hero worked and d'rek told me the following :

Yup, my official ruling is that when you use your Argent Hero ability:

1. each ship that you move and which has capacity can transport ground forces and fighters from the system where the ship was present to its destination system

2. in the case of ground forces, they can be on planets or the space area of the starting system

3. ground forces cannot be placed on planets in the destination system(s), only into the space area

4. there's no "path" or "journey" of this move, the ships just go straight from the origin system to the destination system without passing through in-between systems. Hence, you can't pick up units from any system other than the origin system of each move.

5. Ground forces can still be transported out of the origin system even if it is activated. (This is a contentious ruling that is still being argued and needs to be clarified in the next LRR.)

[Khellendros]

I’m surprised number 5 is contentious - I’d have thought that’d be part of the strength of this one-time use ability. The way I see it, it’s about getting your forces that you built up back home where the space docks are to the front lines.

[D'rek]

Blend, on 09 February 2021 - 07:58 PM, said:

Drek - Just a quick note, when Khell activated Bakal/Alio Prima, my commander ability returns my CT to my reinforcements

Yup!

Imperial Historian, on 09 February 2021 - 08:51 PM, said:

I assumed it was move through as otherwise the wording could have been when an opponent activates the system. Seems weak otherwise.

Blend, on 09 February 2021 - 09:05 PM, said:

https://www.reddit.c...tm_source=share


I see lots of talk about into meaning ships going through too due to Supernova rules reference text.

Guess we will need a Drek rules ruling on this one, because this could have some serious synergy with my other racial ability too.

Like Khell pointed out, there's a precedent for the distinction in the "into" vs "through" wording from the anomaly rules. Abilities that activate when a ship "moves into" only trigger if it's the final destination of the ship's move (though it does not necessarily have to be "the active system").

Khellendros, on 10 February 2021 - 12:12 AM, said:

I’m surprised number 5 is contentious - I’d have thought that’d be part of the strength of this one-time use ability. The way I see it, it’s about getting your forces that you built up back home where the space docks are to the front lines.

The problem comes from the base game rule that states you cannot transport units that are in a system which contains a CT. Clearly that base game rule was meant just for situations like a carrier 2 moving from system A, through system B, to system C - if system B has a CT you can't infantry up off the planets there, but if it doesn't have a CT you can. There was no need for a base game rule specifying if the carrier can transport units out of system A or not if there's a CT in system A because if there is the carrier can't move out of system A anyways.

The expansion added 3 abilities that let ships move out of systems that have a CT - the Argent, L1Z1X, and Nomad hero cards. Those 3 abilities specifically say you can move (certain) ships out of the system, so obviously that overrules the usual restriction on ships moving out of a system that has a CT. But two of the abilities don't explicitly say the ships moving out can transport units or not (the Nomad one does explicitly say it, but there might be a good reason to clarify it there), so does the base game rule still apply to the units not explicitly mentioned by the ability? But then there's another base game rule (meant for Skilled Retreat) that says abilities that move ships always let them transport...

[Tattersail_]

Morgoth are you on 1 or 2 TG?

[Morgoth]

I should be at 4

[Khellendros]

Morgoth, on 10 February 2021 - 09:20 AM, said:

I should be at 4

You had 7 and you gave 5TG to IH for 2 relics and payment for use of twelve’s Hero secondary.

[Imperial Historian]

He also had 2 commodities from an explore, so his TG count is right

[Tattersail_]

Whats confusing is the explores after the move and showing the old TG count. Its a lot to keep track of