[Leoman]

senu, brys, and kalam without a doubt

[Trotts]

1. fear/bult - 23/0
2. bruk/storm - 10/13
3. kallor/temper - 3/12
4. lorn/rhulad - 4/19
5. kalam/gruntle - 13/11
6. brys/trotts - 22/0
7. senu/moroch - 13/11
8. bnagga/whiskeyjack - 0/23

this is what i got when i tallied the votes

[Oceao]

C'mon
Lorn could mess Rhulad up with or without Ot. blade.

[garden_rake]

Oceao said:

C'mon
Lorn could mess Rhulad up with or without Ot. blade.

got to disagree im afraid

lorn is skilled in comparison to your average human, but we dont see any indication that she is anything more than that. Her unofficial 'mage killer' title implies that her main advantage was with the otataral sword, which of course would have no effect on rhulad. Rhulad on t'other hand is edur, one of the best young swordsmen in his tribe, is invested with the crippled god's power, earned a little respect from iron bars (something like 'soon he'l be dam good'), and most importantly has a really shiny coat of armour (blind her with the sun's reflection )

although i have always thought that lorn is really fine looking, for some reason i picture her as the woman from kill bill 1 - lucy lui's assistant, called sophie i think *goes off for a bit of a drool*

[Morgoth]

Er.. You do realise Rhulad grows stronger each time he is resurected no? So his powers are much much more impressive now than when he fought IB. Also, he cut several of Brys' fingers of when they fought, do you think Lorn could have managed that, hm?

[Danforth]

Brys would of owned Lorn, if Lorn took Rhulad's place. In that particular scene in MT.

[Trotts]

yea, wasnt exactly a fight, heheh, all this build up of emperor rhulad going through letharas, and then iron bars just runs by, and kills rhulad cos hes in the way, haha!!

[MottIrregular]

Lorn was beaten by Corporal Blues. As far as I know, Blues is not an Avowed. So Blues can & will be beaten by Iron Bars. Bars himself reckons Rhulad will be a good swordsman (swordsedur - i dont get tired of this joke!) given five years experience. and this from the man who broke rhulad's neck without thinking twice.

Draw your logic from there.

[Oceao]

Meh, I don't really think it is fair to gauge Lorn's skill based on her collapse in Gotm - she was on a downward spiral throughout the whole book. Blues might as well have beaten up a puppy. Unfortunately that is all we 'see' of her, so I understand going with Rhulad, however I think a pre-Gotm Lorn / Rhulad fight would be closer.

[Tes'thesula]

where is the impression that lorn is an awesome fighter coming from?

[Oceao]

Well, when I said "Lorn could mess Rhulad up" I was mostly joking, and responding to how quickly people dismissed her based on Gotm. It isn't that far a stretch of the imagination to get a more capable version of Lorn, before she burns out. In fact I think it goes along pretty well with how we see Tavore coming into her role as Adjunct

[caladanbrood]

BAD said:

When you gonna put the real top gunners in it? Hint have Brood versus Rake as one. We'll love it.

ORFLAI:D:D:D

Why does anyone think that Kalam would beat Gruntle? Kalam is an assassin, albeit a very good one. Gruntle is the Mortal Sword of the God of War, for hood's sake!

[Oceao]

Because Kalam is a main character and Gruntle isn't.

I dunno really, the question of terrain is an important one. I went with Kalam because I don't think he would let Gruntle have a setting advantage... on the other hand is Gruntle smart enough to know that is what an (x)claw would do and then try to neutralize it? Also haven't read NoK so I'm not sure about how serious being a mortal sword is, benefits etc. If being a mortal sword meant "ability to ignore first fatal wound* then i'd prolly change my pick.

In the end though, just look at the names. For an author that usually nails the hail mary with naming, Steven tossed one to the other team here. Gruntle? What the hell?

[caladanbrood]

Theres no mortal sword in NoK, to my knowledge:Erm:

[Oceao]

Haven't read it yet, but didn't someone say "it is made pretty clear in NoK that a champion of the gods can't be defeated by a mortal" or was that in another discussion?

[Chaos]

1. Fear
2. I can't decide.
3. Kallor
4. Rhulad
5. This one was TOUGH. For some reason the "shadow pit" springs to mind and Kalam reflecting on the how awed he was at that skill. Mortal Sword , when they all like one, the image of Gruntle I have there is awesome, and from that I'm gonna do something I never thought I would and say Gruntle. Although hasn't Kalam now ascended of sorts? cos of the tanoe song.. or does he have to die first? *shrugs* if so .. then rematch
6. Brys (even though trotts rules)
7. Senu
8. WhiskeyJack (I can't stand seeing him die again )

[Morgoth]

caladanbrood said:

Theres no mortal sword in NoK, to my knowledge:Erm:

I was not refering to a mortal sword but to the champion of the supposed eight and oldest holy city..

Er.. is this how I do it?

Spoiler

In NoK, when Dassem and his companions challenge the champion of the eight and last holy city, Temper notes in an internal monologue that no fighter, no matter how good he is, can defeat a god sanctioned warrior. Remember that Temper and the others were all among the finest if not the best fighters of the imperium, yet they were no match for the champion.

No matter how cool you think Kalam is, there can be little doubt that Gruntle, the sanctioned Mortal Sword of the God of War would ripp him to shreads. Yes Kalam is an excellent assassin. Yes he is unmatched with two knives. But Gruntle will be faster, stronger, tougher and much more difficult to kill with a wound.. Remember how the Mortal Sword of Fener fought on even though he'd received wounds that would kill a dragon.

[Trotts]

just as some interesting points of discussion, kalam must have ascended, because of the bridgeburner song hasent he? i remember a discussion in hoc about the bridgeburners being ascended and being parans posse, but their numbers being very low cos so many died or somethin like that. anyways, kalam -> possible ascendant

but more importantly, kalam isnt just *an* assassin, hes literally the assassin. even pearl mentioned how he thought kalam could prolly beat topper down, and be the clawmaster.

further, trake is a "new" god, and there susceptible to orataral, which kalam has. does that mean kalam is a million times better then gruntle? not even remotely, but i think it makes them more evenly matched. and quite frankly all kalam has to do is stick gruntle with a dagger coated in some white parlat, thatll fix him (although gruntle is so cool, i dont want him to die!!)