[D'rek]

Tattersail_, on 10 November 2020 - 04:06 PM, said:

or you have my votes this agenda phase which will help you bargain for more things.

It's very statistically unlikely that a really good Elect Player agenda happens to come up*. Plus, even if it did come up, if I abandon my expansion then yours + my votes will still be less than IH has, so controlling your votes this round gains me nothing.

*(and if it were going to - you played POLITICS last round so you'd know that, wouldn't you already have said so to try and convince me more? So it's not going to come up)

Tattersail_, on 10 November 2020 - 04:06 PM, said:

Other solutions are, I give you 1 TG next round for you not pillaging me this round

I give up 2 or more TG in exchange for gaining 1 TG NEXT round? How is that a good deal?

If you really think that's a good deal, then let's do this once in my direction and twice in your direction. So the above, and also you give me 4 TG this round in exchange for me giving you 2 TG next round. That's a good deal, right?


Sheesh


Tatts, you're acting like you didn't know I was playing Mentak until just now. When we talked about how we'd partition Arnor/Lor, I was already Mentak at that time. When you said you wanted to trade commodities with me, I was already Mentak at that time. You can't act surprised by this.

You said you wanted to trade. You said you wanted to partition arnor/lor, not invade each other's space, and perhaps even trade PNs after. I wanted those things, too, and as far as I was concerned we both still wanted those things.

But now suddenly (after I've already spent the CT to prepare for our trade) you say "Hey wait, I just realized you're a MENTAK how dare you use your faction abilities! How dare you be upset that I want to take the planets in your space!"

Pillaging is what Mentak do. You don't see me asking you to discard an extra CT every round and never transport more than 4 units at a time because how dare you use your Sol faction abilities.

And if you want to negotiate a non-pillage agreement, that's absolutely fine. IH already negotiated one successfully, it's totally do-able! But:

{a} you have to offer something I actually want more than the TGs I would otherwise get

and

{b} welching on prior deals we'd already made (where pillaging was not part of those deals) because now you want me to accept a third deal that is terrible for me -- that is going back on your word and negotiating in bad faith.


It sure seems like you don't have anything you can offer me that is more valuable to me at this time than the TG I will get from my faction abilities, so you're simply not going to be able to offer me a good deal for not pillaging this round. You need to either accept that, move on, and we'll execute the two deals we'd already agreed to as planned... or else you can go back on your word from those deals, and we're done here, I guess.

[Imperial Historian]

D, on 10 November 2020 - 04:30 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 10 November 2020 - 04:06 PM, said:

or you have my votes this agenda phase which will help you bargain for more things.

It's very statistically unlikely that a really good Elect Player agenda happens to come up*. Plus, even if it did come up, if I abandon my expansion then yours + my votes will still be less than IH has, so controlling your votes this round gains me nothing.

*(and if it were going to - you played POLITICS last round so you'd know that, wouldn't you already have said so to try and convince me more? So it's not going to come up)

Tattersail_, on 10 November 2020 - 04:06 PM, said:

Other solutions are, I give you 1 TG next round for you not pillaging me this round

I give up 2 or more TG in exchange for gaining 1 TG NEXT round? How is that a good deal?

If you really think that's a good deal, then let's do this once in my direction and twice in your direction. So the above, and also you give me 4 TG this round in exchange for me giving you 2 TG next round. That's a good deal, right?


Sheesh


Tatts, you're acting like you didn't know I was playing Mentak until just now. When we talked about how we'd partition Arnor/Lor, I was already Mentak at that time. When you said you wanted to trade commodities with me, I was already Mentak at that time. You can't act surprised by this.

You said you wanted to trade. You said you wanted to partition arnor/lor, not invade each other's space, and perhaps even trade PNs after. I wanted those things, too, and as far as I was concerned we both still wanted those things.

But now suddenly (after I've already spent the CT to prepare for our trade) you say "Hey wait, I just realized you're a MENTAK how dare you use your faction abilities! How dare you be upset that I want to take the planets in your space!"

Pillaging is what Mentak do. You don't see me asking you to discard an extra CT every round and never transport more than 4 units at a time because how dare you use your Sol faction abilities.

And if you want to negotiate a non-pillage agreement, that's absolutely fine. IH already negotiated one successfully, it's totally do-able! But:

{a} you have to offer something I actually want more than the TGs I would otherwise get

and

{b} welching on prior deals we'd already made (where pillaging was not part of those deals) because now you want me to accept a third deal that is terrible for me -- that is going back on your word and negotiating in bad faith.


It sure seems like you don't have anything you can offer me that is more valuable to me at this time than the TG I will get from my faction abilities, so you're simply not going to be able to offer me a good deal for not pillaging this round. You need to either accept that, move on, and we'll execute the two deals we'd already agreed to as planned... or else you can go back on your word from those deals, and we're done here, I guess.

If tatts doesn't swap out your commodities D'rek I can probably swap them out if you agree not to pillage either side of a future trade of my choice.

[Tattersail_]

Twelve what would my racial be worth to you?

If it looks like Drek is going to pillage me regardless of what I say and I will need that TG to score would you be willing to buy my racial for said TG?

You give me a TG first for my racial. That takes you down to 2 so you won't be pillaged.

Then we do a 4:4 swap. We will both be pillaged.

[Tattersail_]

I'll also be willing to swap SftT with you once I get Tar'mann back. Is this something you'd work towards? It'll mean I won't contest you at all for A/M

[Imperial Historian]

Twelve I think your TG are wrong in your post, you should have 4 Tg as trade had a tg on it start of the round.

Are you going to make a move today tatts? Fyi your proposed deal still leaves you on 4 tg, one short of scoring.

[D'rek]

Imperial Historian, on 10 November 2020 - 04:34 PM, said:

If tatts doesn't swap out your commodities D'rek I can probably swap them out if you agree not to pillage either side of a future trade of my choice.

Well, I'm not going to pillage your side regardless. Curious why you care about the other side?

Relatedly: I kinda forgot Promise of Protection was played as an action, rather than immediate. I am hoping you'll play Warfare sooner rather than later, so I'm going to treat you like you already played PoP and hope that you don't use it to stall Warfare too much for me

[Imperial Historian]

D, on 10 November 2020 - 04:58 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 10 November 2020 - 04:34 PM, said:

If tatts doesn't swap out your commodities D'rek I can probably swap them out if you agree not to pillage either side of a future trade of my choice.

Well, I'm not going to pillage your side regardless. Curious why you care about the other side?

Relatedly: I kinda forgot Promise of Protection was played as an action, rather than immediate. I am hoping you'll play Warfare sooner rather than later, so I'm going to treat you like you already played PoP and hope that you don't use it to stall Warfare too much for me

Well I figure people might be reluctant to do a deal with me if they are being pillaged, so would enable me to do a deal that I otherwise wouldn't be able to.

That's appreciated I was considering using PoP before I played warfare, that said I won't be playing warfare until at least round 4 based on my current plans for movements, sorry, I can see this might impact you.

[Imperial Historian]

Plus it's still possible someone will make me an offer I can't refuse for your PoP.

[D'rek]

Imperial Historian, on 10 November 2020 - 05:07 PM, said:

D, on 10 November 2020 - 04:58 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 10 November 2020 - 04:34 PM, said:

If tatts doesn't swap out your commodities D'rek I can probably swap them out if you agree not to pillage either side of a future trade of my choice.

Well, I'm not going to pillage your side regardless. Curious why you care about the other side?

Relatedly: I kinda forgot Promise of Protection was played as an action, rather than immediate. I am hoping you'll play Warfare sooner rather than later, so I'm going to treat you like you already played PoP and hope that you don't use it to stall Warfare too much for me

Well I figure people might be reluctant to do a deal with me if they are being pillaged, so would enable me to do a deal that I otherwise wouldn't be able to.

That's appreciated I was considering using PoP before I played warfare, that said I won't be playing warfare until at least round 4 based on my current plans for movements, sorry, I can see this might impact you.

Turn 4? With 2 CTs and 1 action card...?!

(Oh by the way your AC count is still 0 in your post)

[Tattersail_]

I'll wait to see what Twelve says before offering you something major IH.

[twelve]

Tattersail_, on 10 November 2020 - 04:47 PM, said:

Twelve what would my racial be worth to you?

If it looks like Drek is going to pillage me regardless of what I say and I will need that TG to score would you be willing to buy my racial for said TG?

You give me a TG first for my racial. That takes you down to 2 so you won't be pillaged.

Then we do a 4:4 swap. We will both be pillaged.

This actually is very tempting. But I would have to give up on a contingency I'm thinking about. We can make it all 1 trade where I send 1 tg and 4 commodities for your 4 and pn by the way. I honestly dont want to make this choice right now. Can we wait a turn or 2 before I decide? We dont have to trade right away.

[twelve]

Imperial Historian, on 10 November 2020 - 04:54 PM, said:

Twelve I think your TG are wrong in your post, you should have 4 Tg as trade had a tg on it start of the round.

Are you going to make a move today tatts? Fyi your proposed deal still leaves you on 4 tg, one short of scoring.

It did?

[twelve]

Well shit! This settles it. Tatts we have a deal. When I take Tar'mann I'll trade you 1 trade good and 4 commodities for your 4 commodities and your racial pn. I assume you will use orbital drop to spend your last Strategic so I can use it. That sound right?

[Tattersail_]

I'm using construction to build so we can do it on my turn no problem. Would you like to use my racial on this turn?

[twelve]

Tattersail_, on 10 November 2020 - 05:42 PM, said:

I'm using construction to build so we can do it on my turn no problem. Would you like to use my racial on this turn?

We arent neighbors yet

[Imperial Historian]

D, on 10 November 2020 - 05:18 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 10 November 2020 - 05:07 PM, said:

D, on 10 November 2020 - 04:58 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 10 November 2020 - 04:34 PM, said:

If tatts doesn't swap out your commodities D'rek I can probably swap them out if you agree not to pillage either side of a future trade of my choice.

Well, I'm not going to pillage your side regardless. Curious why you care about the other side?

Relatedly: I kinda forgot Promise of Protection was played as an action, rather than immediate. I am hoping you'll play Warfare sooner rather than later, so I'm going to treat you like you already played PoP and hope that you don't use it to stall Warfare too much for me

Well I figure people might be reluctant to do a deal with me if they are being pillaged, so would enable me to do a deal that I otherwise wouldn't be able to.

That's appreciated I was considering using PoP before I played warfare, that said I won't be playing warfare until at least round 4 based on my current plans for movements, sorry, I can see this might impact you.

Turn 4? With 2 CTs and 1 action card...?!

(Oh by the way your AC count is still 0 in your post)

Updated sorry

[D'rek]

Imperial Historian, on 10 November 2020 - 05:50 PM, said:

D, on 10 November 2020 - 05:18 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 10 November 2020 - 05:07 PM, said:

D, on 10 November 2020 - 04:58 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 10 November 2020 - 04:34 PM, said:

If tatts doesn't swap out your commodities D'rek I can probably swap them out if you agree not to pillage either side of a future trade of my choice.

Well, I'm not going to pillage your side regardless. Curious why you care about the other side?

Relatedly: I kinda forgot Promise of Protection was played as an action, rather than immediate. I am hoping you'll play Warfare sooner rather than later, so I'm going to treat you like you already played PoP and hope that you don't use it to stall Warfare too much for me

Well I figure people might be reluctant to do a deal with me if they are being pillaged, so would enable me to do a deal that I otherwise wouldn't be able to.

That's appreciated I was considering using PoP before I played warfare, that said I won't be playing warfare until at least round 4 based on my current plans for movements, sorry, I can see this might impact you.

Turn 4? With 2 CTs and 1 action card...?!

(Oh by the way your AC count is still 0 in your post)

Updated sorry

No problemo. I still don't see how turn 4 is possible tho Guess it'll be a fun mystery

[Blend]

twelve, on 10 November 2020 - 05:32 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 10 November 2020 - 04:54 PM, said:

Twelve I think your TG are wrong in your post, you should have 4 Tg as trade had a tg on it start of the round.

Are you going to make a move today tatts? Fyi your proposed deal still leaves you on 4 tg, one short of scoring.

It did?

Yeah, it wasn't chosen round 1, so had 1TG on it.

[twelve]

Blend, on 10 November 2020 - 05:59 PM, said:

twelve, on 10 November 2020 - 05:32 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 10 November 2020 - 04:54 PM, said:

Twelve I think your TG are wrong in your post, you should have 4 Tg as trade had a tg on it start of the round.

Are you going to make a move today tatts? Fyi your proposed deal still leaves you on 4 tg, one short of scoring.

It did?

Yeah, it wasn't chosen round 1, so had 1TG on it.

Yeah I realize that now. I'll update my post

[Imperial Historian]

D, on 10 November 2020 - 05:59 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 10 November 2020 - 05:50 PM, said:

D, on 10 November 2020 - 05:18 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 10 November 2020 - 05:07 PM, said:

D, on 10 November 2020 - 04:58 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 10 November 2020 - 04:34 PM, said:

If tatts doesn't swap out your commodities D'rek I can probably swap them out if you agree not to pillage either side of a future trade of my choice.

Well, I'm not going to pillage your side regardless. Curious why you care about the other side?

Relatedly: I kinda forgot Promise of Protection was played as an action, rather than immediate. I am hoping you'll play Warfare sooner rather than later, so I'm going to treat you like you already played PoP and hope that you don't use it to stall Warfare too much for me

Well I figure people might be reluctant to do a deal with me if they are being pillaged, so would enable me to do a deal that I otherwise wouldn't be able to.

That's appreciated I was considering using PoP before I played warfare, that said I won't be playing warfare until at least round 4 based on my current plans for movements, sorry, I can see this might impact you.

Turn 4? With 2 CTs and 1 action card...?!

(Oh by the way your AC count is still 0 in your post)

Updated sorry

No problemo. I still don't see how turn 4 is possible tho Guess it'll be a fun mystery

2 actions, 1 action card I play warfare on turn 4, if I used pop to stall it would be turn 5.