[Okaros]

Venesara, on 14 May 2020 - 05:07 PM, said:

@ Kalse

I wasn't angry at the vote – I was trying to determine if there was any basis to Okral's move against Merrid, since I was feeling suspicious of them as well (I thought I already explained to someone else)

Yeah, doesn't read that way at all to me.

[Venesara]

I'm not trying to be condescending if it sounded that way, but when I can't determine a person's tone it's hard to answer in full context.

[Gait]

read up. Two things I thought odd.

Hanas didnt hammer. But made an attempt to.

Hanas, on 13 May 2020 - 08:28 PM, said:

10min to go? I'll

Remove Vote

Vote Okrak Lom

In case of any mistakes/misscounts.

I'd not even noticed Okaros was in the game

This sort of making double sure doesnt gel with me...as in if you were around that close to games end why not vote earlier than the last desperate minute? why not do a recount if you were uncertain?. I'd find it hard to believe you weren't keeping count from PS update when you were so precise about the time.


The Second thing was Prazec and Jalans votes. Minimum effort but just enough to push the train from uncertain to l-1.

Jalan, on 13 May 2020 - 04:45 PM, said:

Checking in real quick. In the middle of changing my brakes after a near catastrophic failure. So I dont have alot of time. Thryllan was one of the early ones I was looking at. I will have to do more reading up later tonight. But to get a lynch


Vote Okral

Prazec Goul, on 13 May 2020 - 07:22 PM, said:

Just a little over an hour to go.Vote Okaros

Prazec Goul, on 13 May 2020 - 07:29 PM, said:

Oh duh. Thanks for that.remove voteVote Okral

I'm thinking about these three votes alot. I mean maybe its just me but I don't like the timing and the manner.

[Gait]

Gait, on 14 May 2020 - 03:54 PM, said:

Okral gone and in my opinion railroaded to distract from Thyrllen.

Will reread to confirm it but I recall two or three overt efforts to push the vote away from thyr.

Will try lay down my thoughts later once I have had a look at the voting.

With regards to this.

Thyrllen is bound to catch heat after a failed lynch. I want to hear more from this player but I notice how absent they've been might make them a perfect prop.

Both Skintick and Sheltatha started to prod at Thyrllen. After no response both moved on mid game. Skin Voted Okral and Sheltatha Voted for Skintick but then later removed that vote.

Thyrllens only real wrong has been absence but on review there were atleast 4 other players in that exact same category.
Sheltatha has been SUPER vocal Day 1 however didn't really land on any vote at days end.

I'd like to understand why.

[Tennes]

Okay, I reread the thread and there are some loose thoughts from that. I found Sheltatha to look much better on another read. They're all over the place but making decent observations, prodding and applying pressure. Weird mistake with a signalling vote early on but despite being the most active player I can't really poke more holes in their game.

I still don't quite get the Thyr thing but will get to that below.

The first interesting interaction from D1 is when Kalse joke-votes Gait after a pun and Gait needs three posts to talk themselves out of it. They're trying too hard to convince us they're legit.

Gait, on 12 May 2020 - 06:19 AM, said:

WIFOMisms aside I appreciate your eagerness.

[rebuttal]
I am not signaling. I just like puns.
[/rebuttal]

Gait, on 12 May 2020 - 08:55 AM, said:

Oh I see. I'd suggest he/she/they might just like puns also?

Don't take my word for it. Do as you like.

Shelly seems a bit all over the place, too eager imho.

Gait, on 12 May 2020 - 10:31 AM, said:

Well I personally didn't understand Kalses wording, at that point a joke was a joke was a joke. I didn't actively "overlook" anything as you put it there. Just felt it was piling speculation on top of speculation.

Kalse was kind enough to explain his/her meaning. I can see why the vote was made.

Around this point two things happen that, in hindsight, shaped D1. Thyr gets 2 votes (Skintick & Sheltatha) and then I post my signalling case. The reaction to my case is more or less this:
* Okral gets weirdly defensive/nervous/self-pitying
* Prazec posts a silly reply about symping
* Aranatha melts down
* Shel calls out my case as dumb and calls out Aranatha for going HAM

This leads to the Sheltathat/Aranatha face-off and the Okral train. Gait has since claimed at least twice that the Thyrllan train was derailed/railroaded. There were two early-game votes but not even much scrutiny, so I'd hardly call that a train. So while obviously I want to hear more from Thyr, Gait's insistence there was an effort to divert attention from Thyr is pushing a narrative that didn't really happen. It's similar to what Ruse did with their claim that lynching me or Aranatha was the only viable solution for D1: trying to force the discussion into an unnecessarily narrow frame. Gait did it much more subtly though.

Now, here's a twist. For all their talking about derailment, Gait does this:

Gait, on 13 May 2020 - 05:37 AM, said:

[WALL OF QUOTES CUT FOR LENGTH - Tennes]

I'll be honest, Aranatha and Sheltatha read hyper sensitive right now...although Aranatha might be the type of player to dive into arguments feet first. Shelly seems to have an "anywhere but here" vibe. I noted that before.

Its early and I tend to credit Symp cases once everyone has had a say. Still, I think someone hit the mark and scum might be flooding pages to draw attention off.

The only player that has had any real heat on them was Thyrllen whos been extremely mild.

Sheltatha started that train and I agree with the "perfectly average" reasoning. Sheltatha hasn't leaned into Thyrllen despite Thyrs continued mild play style. that feels a bit off. Okral Lom has also been perfectly average and chill but keeps a sharp eye on the game.


I think there may be something here. I keep thinking were I scum i'd play like one of these two.

Gait, on 13 May 2020 - 09:26 AM, said:

[WALL OF QUOTES INCLUDING RUSE's POST, CUT FOR LENGTH - Tennes]
Tennes only had one vote on him till just now. Aranathas argument on Tennes was flat out instinctual and few actually bought in.
If anything all Ruse does in this post is divert the vote to Tennes from what looked like an Okral lynch. Creating a split where before there was none.

This reads like derailment from Ruse who was otherwise none existent.


Vote Okral Lom

This is the informative vote.

So in a span of few hours, Gait goes from this is a derailment to jumping on the train. Before their vote there was 3 on Okral, 2 on me, and 1 on Skintick. So for someone claiming Okral train and Shel/Ara argument and Ruse's post were all attempts to derail, Gait surely made peace very quickly with jumping on the Okral train with a vote that was crucial to give it momentum.

I need to make more tea and answer some emails now but more to follow. In the meantime, I'd like Gait to explain helping push the Okral train if you thought it was an attempt at derailment?

[Prazec Goul]

Hey, FYI to the game, I’ve just had a family emergency come up, and I may not post till tomorrow.

[Tennes]

Okay, moving on.

After Gait's vote I also moved to Okral and then Fanderay shows up, drops another vote, and at this point Okral is and left as the only viable lynch for the day. So let's break down the train, shall we?

Votes 1-3: Rikkter, Skintick, Kalse.
The people who built the original case against Okral. A solid one, as I admitted on D1.

Votes 4-6: Gait, me, Fanderay.
I believe the three of us gave the train enough momentum to seal Okral's fate for better or worse (hindsight: obviously worse).

Votes 7-11: Aranatha, Ruse, Jalan, Prazec, Merrid.
At this stage of the train there are also three alternative suggestions: Merrid (from Okral), Thyr (from Barghast), Osseric (from Hanas).
Honorable mentions go to Venesara, who at L-1 and an hour or so to timeout was pondering what we're waiting for WITHOUT CASTING A VOTE and Hanas who was around before timeout but held with switching from Osseric until the lynch was already secured and gave some weird ass 'just in case of a miscount' justification.

Bunch of quick thoughts from reviewing the train:
* For all the talk about derailing the train on Thyr, there is zero scrutiny on Rikkter and Kalse. Skintick is at least consistent, they were onto Thyr from early on. Jalan is voting Thyr already and Gait is pushing the derailing narrative I talked about in the previous post. I find it very curious that you two are circling back to this game's first almost-train but none of you even name-dropped the person who started it? What the hell.
* Ruse's vote is extremely convenient. Called out for the bullshit post about lynching me or Ara swiftly brushed it off and moved on to a safe vote on a secure lynch train.
* Venesara and Hanas are full of shit.

As for Thyr, whose presence or lack thereof is getting a lot of attention, they're coasting. That's never a good sign and they very well might be a quiet partner to a more vocal killer. There are others I'm more suspicious of but come on out Thyr, it's D2, high time you said something of substance.

[Hanas]

Gait, on 14 May 2020 - 05:34 PM, said:

read up. Two things I thought odd.

Hanas didnt hammer. But made an attempt to.

Hanas, on 13 May 2020 - 08:28 PM, said:

10min to go? I'll

Remove Vote

Vote Okrak Lom

In case of any mistakes/misscounts.

I'd not even noticed Okaros was in the game

This sort of making double sure doesnt gel with me...as in if you were around that close to games end why not vote earlier than the last desperate minute? why not do a recount if you were uncertain?. I'd find it hard to believe you weren't keeping count from PS update when you were so precise about the time.

Been busy here today but I'll take the time for you Gait.

You know what, my vote wasn't needed. But if it was needed and I hadn't I would a) be kicking myself and b ) fucking up majorly. I hate failed lynch trains that should have been majority. How many games have you been in where a missed D1 lynch has screwed the thread over with the same shit for days?

My vote as recorded at lynch is where I'd happily left it for most of the day - on a low poster. Who continues to low post. What do we get from low posters? Nothing.

So 10min or so before is last desperate minute? Wow. Just wow.

And I was precise about the time remaining? When PS has been giving time updates as about x hours? So I was precise about an imprecise amount? That's good to know.

Anyway, I've been on the cider tonight. I'm also irritated and irascible.

[Hanas]

Tennes, on 14 May 2020 - 08:27 PM, said:

Votes 7-11: Aranatha, Ruse, Jalan, Prazec, Merrid.
At this stage of the train there are also three alternative suggestions: Merrid (from Okral), Thyr (from Barghast), Osseric (from Hanas).
Honorable mentions go to Venesara, who at L-1 and an hour or so to timeout was pondering what we're waiting for WITHOUT CASTING A VOTE and Hanas who was around before timeout but held with switching from Osseric until the lynch was already secured and gave some weird ass 'just in case of a miscount' justification.

If it had been needed I'd be enjoying you humbly licking my feet right about now.

Is anyone else confusing Tennes and Thyrllan or is it just me?

[Skintick]

Hanas, on 14 May 2020 - 08:43 PM, said:

Tennes, on 14 May 2020 - 08:27 PM, said:

Votes 7-11: Aranatha, Ruse, Jalan, Prazec, Merrid.
At this stage of the train there are also three alternative suggestions: Merrid (from Okral), Thyr (from Barghast), Osseric (from Hanas).
Honorable mentions go to Venesara, who at L-1 and an hour or so to timeout was pondering what we're waiting for WITHOUT CASTING A VOTE and Hanas who was around before timeout but held with switching from Osseric until the lynch was already secured and gave some weird ass 'just in case of a miscount' justification.

If it had been needed I'd be enjoying you humbly licking my feet right about now.

Is anyone else confusing Tennes and Thyrllan or is it just me?

just you. One is top poster, the other's coasting.

[Tennes]

Two other people I wanted to look at are Kalse and Barghast.

Kalse's playing a good game but worth keeping an eye on because they're leading the thread much more than I realized. They were the third on the Okral train but it's their read that was by far the most convincing and paved the way to the lynch. Then they also called out Ruse for their bullshit post and now Kalse has been tearing Venesara apart. Ven is now on 3 votes which is making them a viable lynch candidate.

Now, I can't really hold this against Kalse because their reads are solid and they're making good observations. Being good at Mafia doesn't mean you're scummy (duh), though it's obviously easier to make good observations when you already have all the information. So just putting this out there, because Kalse has been the most influential player in the game so far and doesn't seem to be getting one bit of scrutiny.

One Kalse's post jumped at me as weird:

Kalse, on 14 May 2020 - 05:09 AM, said:

Tennes, on 13 May 2020 - 10:34 PM, said:

Two observations from end of D1:

Prazec mistaking Okral for Okaros. There was an ongoing conversation about Okral and Prazec themselves mentioned Okral in previous posts. Okaros, meanwhile, was mentioned like once or twice on thread. Why would Okaros even be on Prazec's mind. Smells of a slip.

Venesara came on thread hours before timeout and was supposed to have been catching up. They then went on to quote some stuff that looks like a random collection of posts, without really committing to anything and avoiding to pass judgement. Textbook example of trying to look like you're contributing without actually sticking your neck out. They didn't even vote.

About Prazec, when I was catching up my first thought was "let's see that because of that we miss the lynch by one vote and Prazec will be all sorry guyz I confused an we would waste a lynch, and second day of arguing about it - great symp play!". But then it turned out there was enough time for him to get corrected and even an extra vote to be safe.

Venesara basically admitted that they catch up the thread reading the posts non-sequentially. Now, to each their own, but that sounds more like scanning for things to quote in order to appear to contribute than actually trying to get actionnable information.

That's just rehashing what I said. It stands out because it's something a coaster would post while Kalse has been anything but.




Now, Barghast. Their most important post is probably this:

Barghast, on 13 May 2020 - 03:25 PM, said:

What a pretty pile up, will be interesting to analyze later

Thought it might be connected to Tennes getting 2 votes to Okral's 3 but then the Okral voters are pretty direct in opposing the votes on Tennes which doesn't look like a scum strategy

I don't think Okral is that likely to be a killer, his play seems too unguarded for scum, wishy washy indeed but like careless about it

I wouldn't bring up lack of resistance as an argument, this is not much of a time or situation for resistance from scum

But still this was easy and I'm a little alarmed how swiftly the train went, including Ruse's and Ara's relatively quick switch from Tennes (Note that Aranatha is suddenly content enough with following Tennes after all the vibe scanner stuff)

vote Thyrllan

A lot of dubious stuff going on today but it kinda started when there were 2 votes on Thyr, who during that time got a few joke or otherwise altogether insubstantial posts in, made sure he takes having the votes on himself with ease, then as the attention on him died away so did his presence

At this point it's already L-3 for Okral so it's clear there's not going to be another lynch. Yet Barghast decides to push back towards Thyr and also low-key pushes the derailing narrative. This reads like a townie play, especially in hindsight - questioning a lynch train and offering an alternative to make sure the lynch doesn't go through too easily.

But yet again, it rubs me the wrong way that despite questioning the validity of the train, Barghast never notices or puts any pressure on Rikkter, Skintick, or Kalse who started that train. They pressed Aranatha and Venesara, early on they had a brief interaction with Gait, but never anything about these three.

[Path-Shaper]

It is day 2. About 25 hours remaining.

19 people left alive. Aranatha, Barghast, Fanderay, Gait, Gamelon, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Kilava, Okaros, Osseric, Prazec Goul, Rikkter, Ruse, Sheltatha Lore, Skintick, Tennes, Thyr, Venesara.

1 vote Okaros; Sheltatha Lore
1 vote Prazec Goul; Tennes
3 votes Venesara; Kilava, Kalse, Okaros
2 votes Thyrllan; Skintick, Jalan


Players not voted; Aranatha, Barghast, Fanderay, Gait, Gamelon, Hanas, Osseric, Prazec Goul, Rikkter, Ruse, Thyr, Venesara.

[Tennes]

tl;dr of my re-read and summary of my thoughts so far:

Prazec and Ruse still stand out as the scummiest to me. I'm happy with my vote and I don't believe one bit that Prazec randomly just switched from writing Okral to Okaros. If Prazec flips scum, Okaros is their partner.

Gait and Barghast are pushing the idea that a Thyr train was derailed on D1 but didn't investigate that derailment at all. Rikkter, who started the Okral train, didn't even get a mention from them so far.

Kalse's case on Venesara sounds good. Ven would be my third choice at the moment after Prazec and Ruse. Kalse has been playing a game so clean my gut almost tells me it's too clean.

Thyr is a coaster but the D1 'train' was literally two semi-joking votes, so the whole derailment things sounds blown out of proportion.

[Gait]

Tennes, on 14 May 2020 - 06:55 PM, said:

[snip]

So in a span of few hours, Gait goes from this is a derailment to jumping on the train. Before their vote there was 3 on Okral, 2 on me, and 1 on Skintick. So for someone claiming Okral train and Shel/Ara argument and Ruse's post were all attempts to derail, Gait surely made peace very quickly with jumping on the Okral train with a vote that was crucial to give it momentum.

I need to make more tea and answer some emails now but more to follow. In the meantime, I'd like Gait to explain helping push the Okral train if you thought it was an attempt at derailment?

I think this argument is not quite saying what I think you want it to say. Heres why:

1. my interaction with Kalse was off a misread of his suspicion of Okral Lom whom he thought might be symping me. I didn't understand that and thought Kalse was hating on my bear joke. Kalse explained their reasoning and I saw their point of view. that took three replies from me, 2 from Kalse and a Vote on Kalse from Sheltatha to resolve. Note Sheltatha made the same mistake and was happy to Vote on it then retract said vote when I was corrected.


2. I'm not pushing the derailment argument, quite the opposite. I have said several times that it looks like derailment. That doesn't mean I am convinced that it is. Thats a direct misrepresentation. I may suspect Thyr as he went quite after garnering some heat but there's nothing from Thyr to actually warrant a case against them yet. Nothing tangible and that is even more alarming. Day 1 came to an end with 0 voting activity from Thyr, and they may be entering modkill territory for inactivity. I think this is the perfect player for scum to try pile on suspicion so I'm taking a step back.

[Thyrllan]

Hey guys! I'm back! Sorry, it's been horribly busy. This is why I couldn't keep up with Mafia, unfortunately, but I'll try to stay as active as I can.

I skimmed the thread to catch up (RIP Lisheo and RIP Healer). Let me read and respond to people.

[Thyrllan]

Sheltatha Lore, on 13 May 2020 - 12:16 AM, said:

If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong, but I honestly don't think so. Just put yourself in the shoes of a scum playing. It's possible he would act the way Tennes has - the problem with scum posting is that you either get this feeling they don't really care about who gets the vote, unless you accidentally hit a scum friend of theirs - either way it's hard to tell which is which, especially this early in the game. I'm just watching the way people post and trying to read between the lines, just as you.
There's just something about how Tennes writes his post that comes off scummy to me. As scum it's easy to get caught up in the 'playing it normal', especially if you're excited to play but still don't want to stand out. You can fall in a trap of doing just that, because what you're posting isn't authentic. Tennes posts doesn't seem authentic to me.
If you have a better idea who could be scum this early in the game, I'm all ears.

The thing that makes me raise my eyebrows is your level of certainty. Which is odd to me.
you cannot be so sure at this point, so your accusations seem a bit off.

your temerity of his convictions is noteworthy.

My thinking is either you are throwing accusations purposely to deflect something Tennes might have gotten right (be it accidentally or luckily).
Or.. you are maybe a bit of an over eager village idiot.

It's worth looking at.

Maybe it's because I think he pointed at me a few times (or did he? I did just skim) but I've gotten a similar feel from Tennes. Just something fishy (fishing?) about him.

[Thyrllan]

Sheltatha Lore, on 13 May 2020 - 12:50 AM, said:

Skintick, on 13 May 2020 - 12:26 AM, said:

close my eyes to get away from the screen for a few minutes.




Next thing I see it's (late) evening.




Gonna go eat something, then re-read and see whose arguments I like the least.

remove vote


vote Skintick



Im thinking Tennes mentioned your name and your symp Arantha came out swinging to your defence via deflecting.


how you like them apples?

This is silly, Sheltatha, and makes you look like you're panic-voting.

[Thyrllan]

Kalse, on 13 May 2020 - 06:14 AM, said:

The problem with symp cases is that they can be true, but it makes it hard to be sure why they start stirring things (and who exactly they try to deflect from), but also they are a symp best tool, big cases, lots of discussions and quoting, all that not to put a vote since the person in the case is not the one we want lynched (or if we do we won't know whether the case was true).

Still, I'm not complaining, this info being out there can be useful later in the game!

I have never been a huge fan of symp cases for this reason. The speculation is nearly pointless early-game. It might help late game but it also just becomes tons of noise.

[Thyrllan]

Ruse, on 13 May 2020 - 07:50 AM, said:

Can someone tell me why we are assuming there is a symp? I don't see anything in the first few posts about the killers' organization.

In terms of votes, I have read up on the thread and I am not convinced that it would be a good idea to leave both Aranatha and Tennes alive for tomorrow. If they both survive, we are likely going to have a re-production of this exact spat. It would give us no additional information and we would not be better off in making a choice between them tomorrow.

Therefore, I am in favor of lynching either of the two today. As there is already one vote on Tennes, I will live mine on there as well until tomorrow.

I hope to get a chance to check the thread and change my vote if needed tomorrow.

Vote Tennes

Ruse's vote came in after Okral had three so it looks like he's trying to find any other target but obviously Okral showed town ssssooooo... yeah.

[Thyrllan]

Merrid, on 13 May 2020 - 08:15 AM, said:

Ruse, on 13 May 2020 - 07:50 AM, said:

Can someone tell me why we are assuming there is a symp? I don't see anything in the first few posts about the killers' organization.

In terms of votes, I have read up on the thread and I am not convinced that it would be a good idea to leave both Aranatha and Tennes alive for tomorrow. If they both survive, we are likely going to have a re-production of this exact spat. It would give us no additional information and we would not be better off in making a choice between them tomorrow.

Therefore, I am in favor of lynching either of the two today. As there is already one vote on Tennes, I will live mine on there as well until tomorrow.

I hope to get a chance to check the thread and change my vote if needed tomorrow.

Vote Tennes

Number of players. It would make sense for there to be a symp for balance.

Is this Merrid's last post? Did he die for this?