[Rikkter]

Fucking hell indeed. Look over Tennes (either through my below walk through or on your own). I am half way through Day 2, and watching his handling of the Thyr case. He is doing what he can to derail it, from vomiting case after case with suspect after suspect onto the thread to flat out trying to softly undermine suspicion of Thyr.

Let's start with the classic statements of horror and sympathy for town loss following a horrible night (a must action for scum to make sure they seem like distressed town).

Tennes, on 13 May 2020 - 10:20 PM, said:

Fucking hell.

And then immediately moving into setting up Day 2 with fingering multiple suspects and trying to lay out the next candidates for investigation. No Thyr on this list.

Tennes, on 13 May 2020 - 10:34 PM, said:

Two observations from end of D1:Prazec mistaking Okral for Okaros. There was an ongoing conversation about Okral and Prazec themselves mentioned Okral in previous posts. Okaros, meanwhile, was mentioned like once or twice on thread. Why would Okaros even be on Prazec's mind. Smells of a slip.Venesara came on thread hours before timeout and was supposed to have been catching up. They then went on to quote some stuff that looks like a random collection of posts, without really committing to anything and avoiding to pass judgement. Textbook example of trying to look like you're contributing without actually sticking your neck out. They didn't even vote.

And now pointing out Thyr mentions from Tennes as he tries to get momentum under anyone else. (See red highlights).

Tennes, on 14 May 2020 - 10:56 AM, said:

If this is a freudian slip, why not vote the person who slipped? But yeah, I feel like there's more to that slip so for now I'm gonna go for Prazec.Later today I'll be rereading the thread to look at a couple of players who had a fair bit of activity but somehow flew completely under my radar D1, like Gait, Kalse, and Barghast. I saw some mentions of suspicion about Thyr too and gun to head I couldn't tell you what that's about, so I definitely need to backtrack and read up on this as well.On another note, I find it amusing how Aranatha says they were 'prodding me' when in fact they went fucking apoplectic over a single post.Right now, though:Vote Prazec

The next quote reeks of diffusing interest in Thyr without flat out writing him off.

Tennes, on 14 May 2020 - 06:55 PM, said:

Okay, I reread the thread and there are some loose thoughts from that. I found Sheltatha to look much better on another read. They're all over the place but making decent observations, prodding and applying pressure. Weird mistake with a signalling vote early on but despite being the most active player I can't really poke more holes in their game.I still don't quite get the Thyr thing but will get to that below.The first interesting interaction from D1 is when Kalse joke-votes Gait after a pun and Gait needs three posts to talk themselves out of it. They're trying too hard to convince us they're legit.

Gait, on 12 May 2020 - 06:19 AM, said:

WIFOMisms aside I appreciate your eagerness.[rebuttal]I am not signaling. I just like puns.[/rebuttal]

Gait, on 12 May 2020 - 08:55 AM, said:

Oh I see. I'd suggest he/she/they might just like puns also?Don't take my word for it. Do as you like.Shelly seems a bit all over the place, too eager imho.

Gait, on 12 May 2020 - 10:31 AM, said:

Well I personally didn't understand Kalses wording, at that point a joke was a joke was a joke. I didn't actively "overlook" anything as you put it there. Just felt it was piling speculation on top of speculation.Kalse was kind enough to explain his/her meaning. I can see why the vote was made.

Around this point two things happen that, in hindsight, shaped D1. Thyr gets 2 votes (Skintick & Sheltatha) and then I post my signalling case. The reaction to my case is more or less this:* Okral gets weirdly defensive/nervous/self-pitying* Prazec posts a silly reply about symping* Aranatha melts down* Shel calls out my case as dumb and calls out Aranatha for going HAMThis leads to the Sheltathat/Aranatha face-off and the Okral train. Gait has since claimed at least twice that the Thyrllan train was derailed/railroaded. There were two early-game votes but not even much scrutiny, so I'd hardly call that a train. So while obviously I want to hear more from Thyr, Gait's insistence there was an effort to divert attention from Thyr is pushing a narrative that didn't really happen. It's similar to what Ruse did with their claim that lynching me or Aranatha was the only viable solution for D1: trying to force the discussion into an unnecessarily narrow frame. Gait did it much more subtly though.Now, here's a twist. For all their talking about derailment, Gait does this:

Gait, on 13 May 2020 - 05:37 AM, said:

[WALL OF QUOTES CUT FOR LENGTH - Tennes]I'll be honest, Aranatha and Sheltatha read hyper sensitive right now...although Aranatha might be the type of player to dive into arguments feet first. Shelly seems to have an "anywhere but here" vibe. I noted that before.Its early and I tend to credit Symp cases once everyone has had a say. Still, I think someone hit the mark and scum might be flooding pages to draw attention off. The only player that has had any real heat on them was Thyrllen whos been extremely mild. Sheltatha started that train and I agree with the "perfectly average" reasoning. Sheltatha hasn't leaned into Thyrllen despite Thyrs continued mild play style. that feels a bit off. Okral Lom has also been perfectly average and chill but keeps a sharp eye on the game. I think there may be something here. I keep thinking were I scum i'd play like one of these two.

Gait, on 13 May 2020 - 09:26 AM, said:

[WALL OF QUOTES INCLUDING RUSE's POST, CUT FOR LENGTH - Tennes]Tennes only had one vote on him till just now. Aranathas argument on Tennes was flat out instinctual and few actually bought in.If anything all Ruse does in this post is divert the vote to Tennes from what looked like an Okral lynch. Creating a split where before there was none.This reads like derailment from Ruse who was otherwise none existent.Vote Okral LomThis is the informative vote.

So in a span of few hours, Gait goes from this is a derailment to jumping on the train. Before their vote there was 3 on Okral, 2 on me, and 1 on Skintick. So for someone claiming Okral train and Shel/Ara argument and Ruse's post were all attempts to derail, Gait surely made peace very quickly with jumping on the Okral train with a vote that was crucial to give it momentum.I need to make more tea and answer some emails now but more to follow. In the meantime, I'd like Gait to explain helping push the Okral train if you thought it was an attempt at derailment?

To be continued...

[Rikkter]

This quote is rich. Basically Tennes says yes there is focus on Thyr, but 'wait wait wait, what about Rikkter and Kalse. And you idiots piling onto Thyr, so suspicious, and HEY THYR!!!! DO SOMETHING!!! SAVE YOURSELF!!!'

Tennes, on 14 May 2020 - 08:27 PM, said:

Okay, moving on.After Gait's vote I also moved to Okral and then Fanderay shows up, drops another vote, and at this point Okral is and left as the only viable lynch for the day. So let's break down the train, shall we?Votes 1-3: Rikkter, Skintick, Kalse.The people who built the original case against Okral. A solid one, as I admitted on D1.Votes 4-6: Gait, me, Fanderay.I believe the three of us gave the train enough momentum to seal Okral's fate for better or worse (hindsight: obviously worse).Votes 7-11: Aranatha, Ruse, Jalan, Prazec, Merrid.At this stage of the train there are also three alternative suggestions: Merrid (from Okral), Thyr (from Barghast), Osseric (from Hanas).Honorable mentions go to Venesara, who at L-1 and an hour or so to timeout was pondering what we're waiting for WITHOUT CASTING A VOTE and Hanas who was around before timeout but held with switching from Osseric until the lynch was already secured and gave some weird ass 'just in case of a miscount' justification.Bunch of quick thoughts from reviewing the train:* For all the talk about derailing the train on Thyr, there is zero scrutiny on Rikkter and Kalse. Skintick is at least consistent, they were onto Thyr from early on. Jalan is voting Thyr already and Gait is pushing the derailing narrative I talked about in the previous post. I find it very curious that you two are circling back to this game's first almost-train but none of you even name-dropped the person who started it? What the hell.* Ruse's vote is extremely convenient. Called out for the bullshit post about lynching me or Ara swiftly brushed it off and moved on to a safe vote on a secure lynch train.* Venesara and Hanas are full of shit.As for Thyr, whose presence or lack thereof is getting a lot of attention, they're coasting. That's never a good sign and they very well might be a quiet partner to a more vocal killer. There are others I'm more suspicious of but come on out Thyr, it's D2, high time you said something of substance.

I am losing track of how many different people Tennes is fingering at this point. And the last couple of sentences smell so much like what-about-isms trying to get people off the Thyr train.

Tennes, on 14 May 2020 - 08:53 PM, said:

Two other people I wanted to look at are Kalse and Barghast.Kalse's playing a good game but worth keeping an eye on because they're leading the thread much more than I realized. They were the third on the Okral train but it's their read that was by far the most convincing and paved the way to the lynch. Then they also called out Ruse for their bullshit post and now Kalse has been tearing Venesara apart. Ven is now on 3 votes which is making them a viable lynch candidate.Now, I can't really hold this against Kalse because their reads are solid and they're making good observations. Being good at Mafia doesn't mean you're scummy (duh), though it's obviously easier to make good observations when you already have all the information. So just putting this out there, because Kalse has been the most influential player in the game so far and doesn't seem to be getting one bit of scrutiny.One Kalse's post jumped at me as weird:

Kalse, on 14 May 2020 - 05:09 AM, said:

Tennes, on 13 May 2020 - 10:34 PM, said:

Two observations from end of D1:Prazec mistaking Okral for Okaros. There was an ongoing conversation about Okral and Prazec themselves mentioned Okral in previous posts. Okaros, meanwhile, was mentioned like once or twice on thread. Why would Okaros even be on Prazec's mind. Smells of a slip.Venesara came on thread hours before timeout and was supposed to have been catching up. They then went on to quote some stuff that looks like a random collection of posts, without really committing to anything and avoiding to pass judgement. Textbook example of trying to look like you're contributing without actually sticking your neck out. They didn't even vote.

About Prazec, when I was catching up my first thought was "let's see that because of that we miss the lynch by one vote and Prazec will be all sorry guyz I confused an we would waste a lynch, and second day of arguing about it - great symp play!". But then it turned out there was enough time for him to get corrected and even an extra vote to be safe. Venesara basically admitted that they catch up the thread reading the posts non-sequentially. Now, to each their own, but that sounds more like scanning for things to quote in order to appear to contribute than actually trying to get actionnable information.

That's just rehashing what I said. It stands out because it's something a coaster would post while Kalse has been anything but.Now, Barghast. Their most important post is probably this:

Barghast, on 13 May 2020 - 03:25 PM, said:

What a pretty pile up, will be interesting to analyze laterThought it might be connected to Tennes getting 2 votes to Okral's 3 but then the Okral voters are pretty direct in opposing the votes on Tennes which doesn't look like a scum strategyI don't think Okral is that likely to be a killer, his play seems too unguarded for scum, wishy washy indeed but like careless about itI wouldn't bring up lack of resistance as an argument, this is not much of a time or situation for resistance from scumBut still this was easy and I'm a little alarmed how swiftly the train went, including Ruse's and Ara's relatively quick switch from Tennes (Note that Aranatha is suddenly content enough with following Tennes after all the vibe scanner stuff)vote ThyrllanA lot of dubious stuff going on today but it kinda started when there were 2 votes on Thyr, who during that time got a few joke or otherwise altogether insubstantial posts in, made sure he takes having the votes on himself with ease, then as the attention on him died away so did his presence

At this point it's already L-3 for Okral so it's clear there's not going to be another lynch. Yet Barghast decides to push back towards Thyr and also low-key pushes the derailing narrative. This reads like a townie play, especially in hindsight - questioning a lynch train and offering an alternative to make sure the lynch doesn't go through too easily.But yet again, it rubs me the wrong way that despite questioning the validity of the train, Barghast never notices or puts any pressure on Rikkter, Skintick, or Kalse who started that train. They pressed Aranatha and Venesara, early on they had a brief interaction with Gait, but never anything about these three.

Thank GOD, finally a summary from Tennes. And look at his conclusion on Thyr. Basically saying it is a stupid case. Ignore it and look at any of the other myriad of people I say you suspect!

Tennes, on 14 May 2020 - 08:59 PM, said:

tl;dr of my re-read and summary of my thoughts so far:Prazec and Ruse still stand out as the scummiest to me. I'm happy with my vote and I don't believe one bit that Prazec randomly just switched from writing Okral to Okaros. If Prazec flips scum, Okaros is their partner.Gait and Barghast are pushing the idea that a Thyr train was derailed on D1 but didn't investigate that derailment at all. Rikkter, who started the Okral train, didn't even get a mention from them so far.Kalse's case on Venesara sounds good. Ven would be my third choice at the moment after Prazec and Ruse. Kalse has been playing a game so clean my gut almost tells me it's too clean.Thyr is a coaster but the D1 'train' was literally two semi-joking votes, so the whole derailment things sounds blown out of proportion.

To be continued.... Next with Interactions with Thyr....

[Barghast]

You literally just went from being a lowlowposter to posting a multiple walls of quotes case upon finding a couple of votes on yourself, but please go on

[Gait]

Remove Vote

Here and checking up on all this. Very strong case thus far.

[Rikkter]

Continued...

So Thyr on Tennes is classic distancing. 'Don't know you, think you are weird, hey maybe you are scum not me!'

Thyrllan, on 14 May 2020 - 09:27 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 13 May 2020 - 12:16 AM, said:

If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong, but I honestly don't think so. Just put yourself in the shoes of a scum playing. It's possible he would act the way Tennes has - the problem with scum posting is that you either get this feeling they don't really care about who gets the vote, unless you accidentally hit a scum friend of theirs - either way it's hard to tell which is which, especially this early in the game. I'm just watching the way people post and trying to read between the lines, just as you. There's just something about how Tennes writes his post that comes off scummy to me. As scum it's easy to get caught up in the 'playing it normal', especially if you're excited to play but still don't want to stand out. You can fall in a trap of doing just that, because what you're posting isn't authentic. Tennes posts doesn't seem authentic to me. If you have a better idea who could be scum this early in the game, I'm all ears.The thing that makes me raise my eyebrows is your level of certainty. Which is odd to me.you cannot be so sure at this point, so your accusations seem a bit off.your temerity of his convictions is noteworthy. My thinking is either you are throwing accusations purposely to deflect something Tennes might have gotten right (be it accidentally or luckily). Or.. you are maybe a bit of an over eager village idiot. It's worth looking at.

Maybe it's because I think he pointed at me a few times (or did he? I did just skim) but I've gotten a similar feel from Tennes. Just something fishy (fishing?) about him.

More Tennes is scummy from Thyr. More distancing.

Thyrllan, on 14 May 2020 - 09:36 PM, said:

Tennes, on 13 May 2020 - 08:22 AM, said:

Back online but will be a while before I'm properly read up.A quick note for now:

Barghast, on 13 May 2020 - 06:55 AM, said:

Prazec Goul, on 12 May 2020 - 10:26 PM, said:

Tennes, on 12 May 2020 - 09:48 PM, said:

Skintick, on 12 May 2020 - 06:40 PM, said:

sorry, all, My VPN tunnel to the work PC keeps dropping, so I had to kill all browser windows to keep the precious Wi-Fi bandwidth flowing. As usual, if someone's making a symp case, the logical conclusion should be, who is that person trying to symp. I never get tired of having to repeat that.

Prazec, Shelthata, Okral.

Ok. So you think Skintick is a symp, and that he is symping one of us. But he even says to not lynch the symp, lynch the one he’s symping.What shitty symp would tell you to lynch his killer?I’ve had a couple drinks and probably should go to bed, but I’m not getting this logic.

What shitty symptom would never tell you to lynch his master?

This is a good observation. The question from Prazec is so obtuse that I have a hard time believing it's genuine.As a side-note: I don't think Aranatha is scum. I'm sure as hell annoyed at their blinkers but this just feels like a classic bad town play.

IMO, calling out someone's play as "bad" is a good way to put them on tilt. Kinda scummy.

And after some distancing from Thyr, and as the train on Thyr builds, Tennes starts making noises of capitulating reluctantly that Thyr could be scum, but still insisting better candidates exist.

Tennes, on 14 May 2020 - 11:47 PM, said:

@Hanas

Hanas, on 14 May 2020 - 08:43 PM, said:

Tennes, on 14 May 2020 - 08:27 PM, said:

Votes 7-11: Aranatha, Ruse, Jalan, Prazec, Merrid.At this stage of the train there are also three alternative suggestions: Merrid (from Okral), Thyr (from Barghast), Osseric (from Hanas).Honorable mentions go to Venesara, who at L-1 and an hour or so to timeout was pondering what we're waiting for WITHOUT CASTING A VOTE and Hanas who was around before timeout but held with switching from Osseric until the lynch was already secured and gave some weird ass 'just in case of a miscount' justification.

If it had been needed I'd be enjoying you humbly licking my feet right about now.[SNIP]

Yes Hanas, if you did something useful, that would have been good. But instead you decided to be useless instead. Not exactly the townie move you're trying to present it to be.@Gait

Gait, on 14 May 2020 - 09:01 PM, said:

Tennes, on 14 May 2020 - 06:55 PM, said:

[snip]So in a span of few hours, Gait goes from this is a derailment to jumping on the train. Before their vote there was 3 on Okral, 2 on me, and 1 on Skintick. So for someone claiming Okral train and Shel/Ara argument and Ruse's post were all attempts to derail, Gait surely made peace very quickly with jumping on the Okral train with a vote that was crucial to give it momentum.I need to make more tea and answer some emails now but more to follow. In the meantime, I'd like Gait to explain helping push the Okral train if you thought it was an attempt at derailment?

I think this argument is not quite saying what I think you want it to say. Heres why:1. my interaction with Kalse was off a misread of his suspicion of Okral Lom whom he thought might be symping me. I didn't understand that and thought Kalse was hating on my bear joke. Kalse explained their reasoning and I saw their point of view. that took three replies from me, 2 from Kalse and a Vote on Kalse from Sheltatha to resolve. Note Sheltatha made the same mistake and was happy to Vote on it then retract said vote when I was corrected.2. I'm not pushing the derailment argument, quite the opposite. I have said several times that it looks like derailment. That doesn't mean I am convinced that it is. Thats a direct misrepresentation. I may suspect Thyr as he went quite after garnering some heat but there's nothing from Thyr to actually warrant a case against them yet. Nothing tangible and that is even more alarming. Day 1 came to an end with 0 voting activity from Thyr, and they may be entering modkill territory for inactivity. I think this is the perfect player for scum to try pile on suspicion so I'm taking a step back.

1. Fair enough.2. Waaaaait a minute. This part:I'm not pushing the derailment argument, quite the opposite. I have said several times that it looks like derailment. That doesn't mean I am convinced that it is.is a meaningless, contradictory word salad. You're now saying you're pushing THE OPPOSITE of the argument that Thyr train was derailed, which apparently means that it only LOOKS LIKE IT WAS but you are not sure whether it in fact was. What? Is this some Schoredinger's argument where you think there both was and wasn't an attempt to derail that train.This are your words Gait (block quotes snipped):

Gait, on 13 May 2020 - 05:37 AM, said:

I'll be honest, Aranatha and Sheltatha read hyper sensitive right now...although Aranatha might be the type of player to dive into arguments feet first. Shelly seems to have an "anywhere but here" vibe. I noted that before.Its early and I tend to credit Symp cases once everyone has had a say. Still, I think someone hit the mark and scum might be flooding pages to draw attention off. The only player that has had any real heat on them was Thyrllen whos been extremely mild.Sheltatha started that train and I agree with the "perfectly average" reasoning. Sheltatha hasn't leaned into Thyrllen despite Thyrs continued mild play style. that feels a bit off. Okral Lom has also been perfectly average and chill but keeps a sharp eye on the game. I think there may be something here. I keep thinking were I scum i'd play like one of these two.

Gait, on 13 May 2020 - 05:19 PM, said:

I generally agree with this.Okral aside I think The train on Thyr was derailed. I still stand by my vote since its highly informative. I am less confident of Okral with the random vote on Merrid.If Okral is PI we have alot to look at voting wise.

Gait, on 14 May 2020 - 03:54 PM, said:

Okral gone and in my opinion railroaded to distract from Thyrllen. Will reread to confirm it but I recall two or three overt efforts to push the vote away from thyr.Will try lay down my thoughts later once I have had a look at the voting.

How is this pushing the opposite of the derailment argument? You literally said, more than once, that you believe Thyr train was derailed. Why backtrack from this now?I'm done for the day but I have a day off tomorrow so will be around if people want to chat. I want to lynch Prazec and test the freudian slip theory so I'll stay for now. Hopefully someone follows that idea.Between Thyrllan and Venesara, I'll admit to having been convinced by Kalse'e arguments against Ven but now Barghast makes a good point that Ven train has Okral 2.0 written all over it.Thyr has indeed started posting and yet it feels like the flurry of posts didn't actually bring much substance. Not sure yet which way I'd lean if these were the only lynch candidates.

At this point I am still reading, but I had to post all those quotes. I don't know what the fuck Tennes was thinking, but he is painting himself into a corner with all these deflections from Thyr. It seems crazy obvious to me here, especially reading through and knowing Thyr is scum.

[Rikkter]

Barghast, on 17 May 2020 - 06:50 PM, said:

You literally just went from being a lowlowposter to posting a multiple walls of quotes case upon finding a couple of votes on yourself, but please go on

What happens when you are recovering from a long ass week and finally getting time to sit down and quietly think.

[Barghast]

Kalse, on 17 May 2020 - 06:37 PM, said:

Good stuff there Rikkter, but two comments:

1. Until your vote, I thought you were going for Shelthata
2. Since you know that day 2 ended with a scum lynch, don't you think it's worth getting that rereading done before throwing your vote?

Do you call a case from which it's not even clear to you who's it about a good stuff?

Plus Rikkter plainly states he suspects Shel to be a symp

Rikkter, on 17 May 2020 - 06:20 PM, said:

Now here is my actual focus for this case. Introduction to SL (my suspected symp) was necessary to spot this guy. Tennes carries on the symp confusion SL has spread. Tennes strangely first votes for Skin with the line "let's see if this sticks" line and then goes in great detail much later with a remove vote? Seems a little cagey and weird behavior.

Plus y'know, the case up to this point is *kinda* (kinda lot) based on it

[Rikkter]

Gait, on 15 May 2020 - 12:38 PM, said:

I like the case. It echoes a few of my thoughts early on Day 2.

Still I'm suspicious of Sheltathas misvote on Thyrllen.

I mean both Thyrllen and Hanas make good candidates for scum. Sheltatha looked to be interested in Thyrllen then almost immediately goes after Bharghast/Hanas.

Either its ADD or diverting attention.

I'm not sure I trust it.

Hammer on the nail. Additionally supportive of my suspicion of SL. I must confess, I feel like without the mishaps of having one of their own caught out early, SL is playing quite the game. Joke finger Thyr to take them off the table, and rinse and repeat for Day 2. Jumping on Hanas was a good direction too, because you have a hard core like me latching on with noises from other people supporting suspicion of Hanas. A great pick for an alternative lynch, a case that isn't muddled with all the other suspicions, fingerings and confusion and simple enough to be a quick read and not give the reader a headache.

Slow clap to you SL.

[Rikkter]

Barghast, on 17 May 2020 - 06:59 PM, said:

Kalse, on 17 May 2020 - 06:37 PM, said:

Good stuff there Rikkter, but two comments:

1. Until your vote, I thought you were going for Shelthata
2. Since you know that day 2 ended with a scum lynch, don't you think it's worth getting that rereading done before throwing your vote?

Do you call a case from which it's not even clear to you who's it about a good stuff?

Plus Rikkter plainly states he suspects Shel to be a symp

Rikkter, on 17 May 2020 - 06:20 PM, said:

Now here is my actual focus for this case. Introduction to SL (my suspected symp) was necessary to spot this guy. Tennes carries on the symp confusion SL has spread. Tennes strangely first votes for Skin with the line "let's see if this sticks" line and then goes in great detail much later with a remove vote? Seems a little cagey and weird behavior.

Plus y'know, the case up to this point is *kinda* (kinda lot) based on it

I agree. A day

[Gait]

This is a tough one.

On one hand yes, it does look like push back after a train.

On the other hand I have said already SL and Tennes have had odd interaction

[Rikkter]

Rikkter, on 17 May 2020 - 07:02 PM, said:

Barghast, on 17 May 2020 - 06:59 PM, said:

Kalse, on 17 May 2020 - 06:37 PM, said:

Good stuff there Rikkter, but two comments:

1. Until your vote, I thought you were going for Shelthata
2. Since you know that day 2 ended with a scum lynch, don't you think it's worth getting that rereading done before throwing your vote?

Do you call a case from which it's not even clear to you who's it about a good stuff?

Plus Rikkter plainly states he suspects Shel to be a symp

Rikkter, on 17 May 2020 - 06:20 PM, said:

Now here is my actual focus for this case. Introduction to SL (my suspected symp) was necessary to spot this guy. Tennes carries on the symp confusion SL has spread. Tennes strangely first votes for Skin with the line "let's see if this sticks" line and then goes in great detail much later with a remove vote? Seems a little cagey and weird behavior.

Plus y'know, the case up to this point is *kinda* (kinda lot) based on it

I agree. A day

Hit the fucking enter key with my fat fingers.

I agree. A day 1 case relying on believing SL is a symp and that proving Tennes is scum is an interesting point and good direction, but Tennes sinks themselves in Day 2. That is where the meat of the case is. SL doesn't help themselves either in Day 2, but I haven't started quoting SL because I already have more than enough work and walls of text making my case on Tennes (a loquacious one indeed).

[Rikkter]

Gait, on 17 May 2020 - 07:03 PM, said:

This is a tough one.

On one hand yes, it does look like push back after a train.

On the other hand I have said already SL and Tennes have had odd interaction

Yes you have. And SL and Thyr also had an odd interaction, albeit more subtle and brief.

[Rikkter]

Still waiting for the tipping point on the Thyr train in my reread, but I cannot stop seeing Tennes fighting to keep Thyr off the menu. So many questions of "are you sure" and what-about-isms about pretty much anyone else. It is making me cringe it seems so goddamn obvious.

Tennes, on 15 May 2020 - 12:52 PM, said:

I'm back and will be around for most of the day. I see the Prazec case still has zero momentum so a question to y'all: do you honestly believe Prazec wrote Okral correctly once, then wrote Okral correctly again, then there was a whole ass discussion about Okral Okral Okral, and then out of nowhere around timeout and possible modkill of not-seen-before Okaros, Prazec pulls that name out of the hat? Come on.Need to read up on what happened since I went to sleep but quick note about Gait. The more I talk to them, the more suspicious I get. Look at this:

Gait, on 15 May 2020 - 02:14 AM, said:

[SNIP]After looking at the vote train, it took 11 votes. Thyrllen only ever had 2 votes on them at any point day 1. Read back to the vote reasons and there wasnt much actual momentum. Thats why I backed off. Since then Thyrllen has padded their post count saying alot about nothing immediately after my last post on how inactive they were and how close to modkill I thought they might be. THAT says alot.I am happy to vote them out. Vote Thyrllenedit: autocorrect changed Thyrllen to Thryllen

Even if you backed off from the derailment narrative, you were pushing it strongly before. And now you're trying to wiggle out of it by being like HEY LOOK I ACTUALLY VOTE THYR but your take on Thyr was never my biggest issue with you. I straight up said that it's weird how you were all over the derail narrative and you didn't as much as name drop anyone who started the Okral train. Who says a train was derailed and then doesn't even look towards the people who derailed it. It's like you're refusing to acknowledge the existence of Rikkter, Skintick, and Kalse. Makes me wonder why.

Tennes, on 15 May 2020 - 01:35 PM, said:

Worth noting: Ruse has gone AWOL after it's been pointed out they look scummy, letting more active players fight it out and take the heat. They have literally 4 posts, including pushing a false lynch narrative and a very secure Okral vote. They haven't showed up to respond to any of the accusations. Ruse would be my pick for a low-lying scum.Big cases at the moment seem to be Venesara, Thyr, Hanas.* Ven is looking sloppy and struggles to make a coherent point. There's no rhyme nor reason to the stuff they post and Kalse laid that down well. I was convinced but the more I think about it, the more I can't help but think scum would just try harder and pay more attention. Like, if you have more information it's so much easier to make a good point. And Ven hasn't made one so far.The thing that concerns me, though, is that when Ven started getting heat for their responses, they just went back into hiding and case on Thyr boomeranged back into the thread. Coincidence?* Thyr and Hanas are both solid coasting cases and I'm currently drawn more to them than to the Ven train. I'd like Thyr to explain why did they look so much into Merrid's last posts. That line in particular:

Thyrllan, on 14 May 2020 - 09:35 PM, said:

Is this Merrid's last post? Did he die for this?

What kind of question is that? Do you seriously think scum would look at one of Merrid's messages and be like oh yeah we need to kill them for that. You're too experienced with Mafia to not know this is horseshit.As for Hanas, I already talked about my issue with their late vote. It bothers me how they insist it was a good move when it was so blatantly pretending to be useful without actually contributing. It stinks of scum hoping Town doesn't get the votes to lynch and washing their hands when the plan doesn't pan out.I feel stronger about Thyr and Hanas than I feel about Venesara. Haven't made up my mind yet but I'm in vicinity for most of the day if we need more votes.

[Rikkter]

Tennes, on 15 May 2020 - 05:58 PM, said:

Decision time.

Like I said, Venesara case seemed solid to me but on another read they just feel too sloppy to be scum.

It's a toss up between Thyr and Hanas. Both are coasters, both feel scummy, both had a blunder of a post. Neither case feels stronger to me so I'm gonna go with a pragmatic vote. More people so far have commented on Thyr and I think their CF is more valuable than Hanas's.

Remove vote.

Vote Thyr.

AHHHHHH, there it is. The vote on Thyr from Tennes, middle of the road of course, with more caveats to down play this vote all the way, even offering up Hanas as the alternative, someone he has not spent too much time fingering up to this point. 5 votes on Thyr at this point is a risky proposition, but the weight of the thread is still fixated on Thyr's odd behavior, and if Tennes is going to claim they are innocent of being in cahoots, they need to make their presence on the lynch train early enough to look supportive not just capitulating a the last minute.

[Barghast]

Rikkter, on 17 May 2020 - 07:04 PM, said:

Rikkter, on 17 May 2020 - 07:02 PM, said:

Barghast, on 17 May 2020 - 06:59 PM, said:

Kalse, on 17 May 2020 - 06:37 PM, said:

Good stuff there Rikkter, but two comments:

1. Until your vote, I thought you were going for Shelthata
2. Since you know that day 2 ended with a scum lynch, don't you think it's worth getting that rereading done before throwing your vote?

Do you call a case from which it's not even clear to you who's it about a good stuff?

Plus Rikkter plainly states he suspects Shel to be a symp

Rikkter, on 17 May 2020 - 06:20 PM, said:

Now here is my actual focus for this case. Introduction to SL (my suspected symp) was necessary to spot this guy. Tennes carries on the symp confusion SL has spread. Tennes strangely first votes for Skin with the line "let's see if this sticks" line and then goes in great detail much later with a remove vote? Seems a little cagey and weird behavior.

Plus y'know, the case up to this point is *kinda* (kinda lot) based on it

I agree. A day

Hit the fucking enter key with my fat fingers.

I agree. A day 1 case relying on believing SL is a symp and that proving Tennes is scum is an interesting point and good direction, but Tennes sinks themselves in Day 2. That is where the meat of the case is. SL doesn't help themselves either in Day 2, but I haven't started quoting SL because I already have more than enough work and walls of text making my case on Tennes (a loquacious one indeed).

The point of that post is to call out Kalse's reaction which I find suspect, so as I said I'm talking (really just stating the obvious which is what makes this suspect) about the case in the state in which Kalse replied to it

[Rikkter]

Sheltatha Lore, on 15 May 2020 - 09:36 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 15 May 2020 - 09:31 PM, said:

What's the likelihood that their scum friends voted for him? Not very high, so we should probably start looking closely at anyone that voted for someone else, or didn't vote. So much more to go on now than before.

I wouldn't discount the voters. Scum vote for other scum for distancing. Especially when they think the Lynch is inevitable.

I wouldn't discount the second half of the Lynch train at all.

SL regurgitating what they are guilty of. This just after the lynch of scum numero uno.

[Rikkter]

Barghast, on 17 May 2020 - 07:19 PM, said:

Rikkter, on 17 May 2020 - 07:04 PM, said:

Rikkter, on 17 May 2020 - 07:02 PM, said:

Barghast, on 17 May 2020 - 06:59 PM, said:

Kalse, on 17 May 2020 - 06:37 PM, said:

Good stuff there Rikkter, but two comments:

1. Until your vote, I thought you were going for Shelthata
2. Since you know that day 2 ended with a scum lynch, don't you think it's worth getting that rereading done before throwing your vote?

Do you call a case from which it's not even clear to you who's it about a good stuff?

Plus Rikkter plainly states he suspects Shel to be a symp

Rikkter, on 17 May 2020 - 06:20 PM, said:

Now here is my actual focus for this case. Introduction to SL (my suspected symp) was necessary to spot this guy. Tennes carries on the symp confusion SL has spread. Tennes strangely first votes for Skin with the line "let's see if this sticks" line and then goes in great detail much later with a remove vote? Seems a little cagey and weird behavior.

Plus y'know, the case up to this point is *kinda* (kinda lot) based on it

I agree. A day

Hit the fucking enter key with my fat fingers.

I agree. A day 1 case relying on believing SL is a symp and that proving Tennes is scum is an interesting point and good direction, but Tennes sinks themselves in Day 2. That is where the meat of the case is. SL doesn't help themselves either in Day 2, but I haven't started quoting SL because I already have more than enough work and walls of text making my case on Tennes (a loquacious one indeed).

The point of that post is to call out Kalse's reaction which I find suspect, so as I said I'm talking (really just stating the obvious which is what makes this suspect) about the case in the state in which Kalse replied to it

Ah right, sorry I misunderstood you. Kalse has been pinging me a lot in my reread, but I am staying focused on Tennes until he is lynched.

[Barghast]

Rikkter, on 17 May 2020 - 07:16 PM, said:

Tennes, on 15 May 2020 - 05:58 PM, said:

Decision time.

Like I said, Venesara case seemed solid to me but on another read they just feel too sloppy to be scum.

It's a toss up between Thyr and Hanas. Both are coasters, both feel scummy, both had a blunder of a post. Neither case feels stronger to me so I'm gonna go with a pragmatic vote. More people so far have commented on Thyr and I think their CF is more valuable than Hanas's.

Remove vote.

Vote Thyr.

AHHHHHH, there it is. The vote on Thyr from Tennes, middle of the road of course, with more caveats to down play this vote all the way, even offering up Hanas as the alternative, someone he has not spent too much time fingering up to this point. 5 votes on Thyr at this point is a risky proposition, but the weight of the thread is still fixated on Thyr's odd behavior, and if Tennes is going to claim they are innocent of being in cahoots, they need to make their presence on the lynch train early enough to look supportive not just capitulating a the last minute.

And you claim you didn't have the knowledge of this vote when you started on the case? Seems convenient enough

[Gait]

Ok...Case made.

If we want to hear a rebuttal all we need to do is:

Vote Tennes

[Tennes]

I don't have time to post much until tomorrow but this is some galaxy brain logic to think I was deflecting from Thyr all the time to then cast a vote that tipped the scale on them.

I voted Thyr on D2 when the votes were 4/4/2 between Ven, Thyr, and Hanas. If I were scum, I would need to be out of my mind to switch to Thyr at that point.