[Sheltatha Lore]

Fanderay, on 15 May 2020 - 12:44 AM, said:

First of all, I wasn't discussing the scum mechanics so much as questioning why people were discussing it. I hadn't seen any real evidence that there were any symps.

hmmm...no.
You where attempting to start a discussion about scums make-up. WE where simply making cases based on the assumption there are symps in the game.
NOT discussing IF there where symps. Hence you where the only one trying to discuss actual scum "mechanics" there.

Lets get that straight.

[Sheltatha Lore]

Aranatha, on 15 May 2020 - 04:21 AM, said:

Are we just gonna ignore this? Shel conveniently showed up when the day was over.

Look if you want to start making META arguments then go ahead.

As I said, I simply forgot about the game..I knew deadline was roughly 11pm my time.
When I saw it was 11pm on my watch I quickly remembered the game and deadline, and came to see if there was time left and saw that I missed it by about 10 minutes. Kapeesh?

If you wanna keep beating the bush then go ahead, but thats my explanation...take it or leave it. Im not going to explain again.

[Sheltatha Lore]

I think ill break this down in a few posts as it will get long.

So Last night I decided to go do a re-read of the thread and this time look at any players that have been just active enough to not be noticed.
What I noticed was Hanas, to me, seemed to fit the scum hiding in plain sight bill perfectly. It kicks off with lots of pointless posts to start, you know, to get that all important post count up.
Don't want to be seen at the bottom of that post count list do we?

Hanas, on 11 May 2020 - 08:01 PM, said:

Checking in, unfashionably early.

Hanas, on 11 May 2020 - 08:05 PM, said:

Barghast, on 11 May 2020 - 07:38 PM, said:

Gamelon, on 11 May 2020 - 07:20 PM, said:

Present.

Sooo which one of you lonely dragons ordered this thing? Is it from Amazon?

Or was it more than one? It looks like it can accomodate for more

It looks like it can give as good as it can take, or better.

Side note: don't try seeing if there is a word for tentacle porn on wikipedia - the page helpfully tells you there have been LIVE ACTION movies with it in.

Hanas, on 11 May 2020 - 08:10 PM, said:

Skintick, on 11 May 2020 - 08:08 PM, said:

Hanas, on 11 May 2020 - 08:05 PM, said:

Barghast, on 11 May 2020 - 07:38 PM, said:

Gamelon, on 11 May 2020 - 07:20 PM, said:

Present.

Sooo which one of you lonely dragons ordered this thing? Is it from Amazon?

Or was it more than one? It looks like it can accomodate for more

It looks like it can give as good as it can take, or better.

Side note: don't try seeing if there is a word for tentacle porn on wikipedia - the page helpfully tells you there have been LIVE ACTION movies with it in.

wasn't that the premise of one of the Futurama movies?

The Beast with a Billion Backs - not sure I ever saw that one. If I'm gone for a week it's because I now have the urge to re-watch all the series

Hanas, on 11 May 2020 - 08:36 PM, said:

Series 1-10 are on Prime. I know what I'm spending the rest of the month doing.

Hanas, on 11 May 2020 - 08:49 PM, said:

Tennes, on 11 May 2020 - 08:44 PM, said:

21 people, holy shit. I think that's the biggest game I've been in. We should have global lockdowns more often.

Can we at least have a few weeks where those of us with kids can offload them on other people again?

Ok thats all fine by itself. I mean you gotta indulge in some nonsense posts amirite?... thats not scummy in of itself.
Anyways..after these non-posts, The game started kicking off with my vote on the "perfectly average" Thyrllan.


Things had started kinging off from there, and there was much discussion on symp signalling and so forth.

But Here is Hanas' contribution at the time:

Hanas, on 12 May 2020 - 06:24 AM, said:

Skintick, on 12 May 2020 - 01:38 AM, said:

Aranatha, on 12 May 2020 - 01:33 AM, said:

Skintick, on 12 May 2020 - 12:43 AM, said:

Thyrllan, on 11 May 2020 - 11:47 PM, said:

Prazec looks like he's really getting it on with that rock. Sheltatha looks like he's hiding something naughty under his rock.

Shelly is a girl. You, sir/ma'am/warren-thing are an imposter!




Vote Thyrllan

Did you just assume their gender? I'm shocked I tell ya, Shocked!

Malazan canon sez Sheltaha Lore is female.
When we are referring to avatars that correspond to book characters, I expect people on the book forum to use the appropriate pronouns, unless the player has been alted.

Tell that to Orfantal

...erm...ok... a ANOTHER NOTHING posts. Zero actual input on a thread that has started to heat up. The game is kicking off and this one is perfectly content in letting the children fight amongst themselves.

[TO BE CONTINUED]

[Sheltatha Lore]

So then we have a long break from Hanas.
The thread kinda explodes with lots of game action.


Hanas finally makes a return and has this to say:

Hanas, on 13 May 2020 - 09:58 AM, said:

I'm had a quick skim (yeah only a quick one) and it is nice to see some interaction there. I'll consider it this evening. Until then we have 4 alts who have only posted once. Get here people. Fanderay, Gamelon, Kilava, Osseric. All checked in but nothing since.

Vote Osseric

For having a single post and breaching lockdown

Seriously?, Hanas is now cashing in on his early game vote padding and freely pointing out and voting for low posters.
He literally has had zero input to the game...not a SINGLE post thats relates to the game... And has the audacity to ignore all the other shit thats been happening and apparently now cares about people who have only made one post?

hmmm

Very next post is this. His first "look" at the threads actual arguments.
Basically just leans more weight on symp signalling cases. Which we all agreed are always weak at beast...but ok..finally some input...good.

Hanas, on 13 May 2020 - 10:00 AM, said:

Merrid, on 13 May 2020 - 09:57 AM, said:

As Day 1 suspicions go, I like Tennes' on Skintick possibly signalling Prazec, Shelly and/or Okral. Love the use of that 3/4 in the case - sometimes it is just that obvious However, I wouldn't go so far as to say all three are being signalled at. For example, mentioning Prazec and Shelly in the same sentence if they were both killers would be going too far into the blatant.

I've been more blatant than that before - just saying

Sheltatha Lore, on 13 May 2020 - 09:51 AM, said:

Tennes, on 13 May 2020 - 08:22 AM, said:

As a side-note: I don't think Aranatha is scum. I'm sure as hell annoyed at their blinkers but this just feels like a classic bad town play.

i.e. village idiot

I think you're being a bit too sure about Anaratha this early on

So more jokes and not much actual input. COASTING
And the last part directed at me he clearly didn't read the thread properly, as I had been confused by Anaratha for the entire time going between him being a symp OR village idiot play.
He's happy letting the children squabble and fight amongst themselves it seems.

Seems like he's just Trying to look like he's actually adding some input.

Hanas, on 13 May 2020 - 07:17 PM, said:

I'm going to be in and out for the next few hours if needed for a lynch. Very disappointed to see we still have 3 alts with only a single post. Could PS be a little more specific with how much time is left please.

He's going to be "in and out for next few hours". We all know how that played out right?
Still has not said much of anything, and is STILL talking about low posters, cause its a perfectly legitimate comment to make RIGHT? ( MUST SEEM TO BE HELPING, ARE WE?)

Hanas, on 13 May 2020 - 07:19 PM, said:

Barghast, on 13 May 2020 - 07:12 PM, said:

Kalse, on 13 May 2020 - 07:09 PM, said:

Barghast, on 13 May 2020 - 06:44 PM, said:

<snip>


The fact that you still stick around after switching your vote to the likeliest lynch adds to its questionability

Lol it's the first time I see someone accused of the opposite of drive-by-voting

I meant that in the sense that Ara didn't really need to switch yet as apparently she knew she's gonna be around to switch later if there wasn't any other option

When there's a single likely train and you don't want to be one of the last few subject to most scrutiny...

This post was quite interesting, considering the fact that Hanas "Fake" hammer votes below not an hour later.

Hanas, on 13 May 2020 - 08:28 PM, said:

10min to go? I'll

Remove Vote

Vote Okrak Lom

In case of any mistakes/misscounts.

I'd not even noticed Okaros was in the game

And here it is.. the non-committed...fake committed Hammer vote.
The vote that shows you where "willing" to actually do the deed, but also that you where not willing AT ALL.
even tho you said you would be "in and out all day" to actually add something of value.

[TO BE CONTINUED]

[Sheltatha Lore]

Here was have Hanas' first REAL actual multi sentence post regarding the game. In my humble opinion
And guess what? its in defence of HIMSLEF and his non-commital Fake late hammer vote attempt at being helpful.

This post is what made me go back again after re-reading the thread and look specifically at all of what Hanas has contributed.
As I did so realised that literally nothing has come form them of note until they had a small prod here.
Suddenly they jump to action. This speaks volumes to me.
This stinks of scum hiding's in plain site. Coasting and trying to appear helpful without actually doing anything that cold attract much attention.
And when attention arrives suddenly they are here to rebuff and refute!

Hanas, on 14 May 2020 - 08:36 PM, said:

Gait, on 14 May 2020 - 05:34 PM, said:

read up. Two things I thought odd.

Hanas didnt hammer. But made an attempt to.

Hanas, on 13 May 2020 - 08:28 PM, said:

10min to go? I'll

Remove Vote

Vote Okrak Lom

In case of any mistakes/misscounts.

I'd not even noticed Okaros was in the game

This sort of making double sure doesnt gel with me...as in if you were around that close to games end why not vote earlier than the last desperate minute? why not do a recount if you were uncertain?. I'd find it hard to believe you weren't keeping count from PS update when you were so precise about the time.

Been busy here today but I'll take the time for you Gait.

You know what, my vote wasn't needed. But if it was needed and I hadn't I would a) be kicking myself and b ) fucking up majorly. I hate failed lynch trains that should have been majority. How many games have you been in where a missed D1 lynch has screwed the thread over with the same shit for days?

My vote as recorded at lynch is where I'd happily left it for most of the day - on a low poster. Who continues to low post. What do we get from low posters? Nothing.

So 10min or so before is last desperate minute? Wow. Just wow.

And I was precise about the time remaining? When PS has been giving time updates as about x hours? So I was precise about an imprecise amount? That's good to know.

Anyway, I've been on the cider tonight. I'm also irritated and irascible.

Hanas, on 14 May 2020 - 08:43 PM, said:

Tennes, on 14 May 2020 - 08:27 PM, said:

Votes 7-11: Aranatha, Ruse, Jalan, Prazec, Merrid.
At this stage of the train there are also three alternative suggestions: Merrid (from Okral), Thyr (from Barghast), Osseric (from Hanas).
Honorable mentions go to Venesara, who at L-1 and an hour or so to timeout was pondering what we're waiting for WITHOUT CASTING A VOTE and Hanas who was around before timeout but held with switching from Osseric until the lynch was already secured and gave some weird ass 'just in case of a miscount' justification.

If it had been needed I'd be enjoying you humbly licking my feet right about now.

Is anyone else confusing Tennes and Thyrllan or is it just me?

Trying to change the subject maybe?...could be nothing. Trying to get back the the posting something to seems helpful ways maybe...meh



Anyways, What is very interesting (to me at least) is what happened next.
As I was compiling my notes and quotes etc. for this case, Rikkter comes along actually stumbles across the same realisation as myself.
And makes a much more compressed version of my case. kudos to him.

But What struck me was this little bit of defence on Hanas by Barghast.
Stood out like a sore thumb

Barghast, on 15 May 2020 - 07:16 AM, said:

Rikkter, on 15 May 2020 - 12:01 AM, said:

Finally, always at the back of my head is the high likelihood of off thread comms between scum, debating the best moments to interject and best moments to fade away. At least with one lone wolf they are more likely to fuck up without someone else saving their ass.

What's up with the scum comms talk? Sure the comms are a great scum weapon, but they're a great weakness too, they much strengthen the bonds between scum and allow them to coop heavily, but those things leave traces on thread and give town a lot of potential info to digest, also it's not always just pure hard data that is valuable, but also the context and info on how the data should be processed is key

If one scum fuck ups and second comes rushing in to help, well that's towns best chance at getting both no?

Also slips caused by offthread comms (like the case on okralos here) are a whole category unto themselves, so disagree on those counts, but why the need to lament scum offthread comms in a 21 player game?

Your vote on Hanas totally feels like just an easy good looking vote to put up out there

Bargahst not only tries to justify scum META and discussing scum mechanics. He also non-chalantly downplays the case on Hanas for no good reason was so ever. His reasoning for the contrary if very weak compared to the case on Hanas. Why does he care so much?
I would bet if Hanas is scum, Barghast would be a fairly good choice for a scum team mate be it Symp or Partner.

so without further adieux

remove vote
Vote Hanas

[Okaros]

Props to you, that's the most coherent case I've read so far. I want to see how the accused responds, but this is something I could swap from Venesara to at the moment. However, I do think you stretch a bit with that final Barghast post though - you think Barghast is defending Hanas at the same time as saying that scum can be identified by coming out to defend their fellow scum? Seems a little too dumb to do that!

Also, I disagree with both you and Barghast on that particular point. I'd be more inclined to suspect those who don't interact whatsoever, rather than those who supposedly leap to the defence of another (but that's something which only becomes noticeable with more time).

[Sheltatha Lore]

Okaros, on 15 May 2020 - 12:04 PM, said:

Props to you, that's the most coherent case I've read so far. I want to see how the accused responds, but this is something I could swap from Venesara to at the moment. However, I do think you stretch a bit with that final Barghast post though - you think Barghast is defending Hanas at the same time as saying that scum can be identified by coming out to defend their fellow scum? Seems a little too dumb to do that!

Also, I disagree with both you and Barghast on that particular point. I'd be more inclined to suspect those who don't interact whatsoever, rather than those who supposedly leap to the defence of another (but that's something which only becomes noticeable with more time).

I symp would most certainly be so blatant. IMHO

[Gait]

I like the case. It echoes a few of my thoughts early on Day 2.

Still I'm suspicious of Sheltathas misvote on Thyrllen.

I mean both Thyrllen and Hanas make good candidates for scum. Sheltatha looked to be interested in Thyrllen then almost immediately goes after Bharghast/Hanas.

Either its ADD or diverting attention.

I'm not sure I trust it.

[Okaros]

Sheltatha Lore, on 15 May 2020 - 12:34 PM, said:

Okaros, on 15 May 2020 - 12:04 PM, said:

Props to you, that's the most coherent case I've read so far. I want to see how the accused responds, but this is something I could swap from Venesara to at the moment. However, I do think you stretch a bit with that final Barghast post though - you think Barghast is defending Hanas at the same time as saying that scum can be identified by coming out to defend their fellow scum? Seems a little too dumb to do that!

Also, I disagree with both you and Barghast on that particular point. I'd be more inclined to suspect those who don't interact whatsoever, rather than those who supposedly leap to the defence of another (but that's something which only becomes noticeable with more time).

I symp would most certainly be so blatant. IMHO

That would be one crappy symp. Symps deflect and point suspicion towards others, they don't defend their masters. IMHO. So the conclusion rests on Barghast just being that crappy. My ultimate point was, however, that leaving that bit aside, your case on Hanas reads quite solid.

[Skintick]

Morning all.




did a skim-read, but now I need to go back and see what the case on Venesara is all about

It's rainy, it's gloomy, and I don't expect too many work calls, It's the Friday before long weekend, so perfect day for mafia (and a little work)




As others have noted, Thyr's response tirade isn't particularly impressive. I also do the "comment as I'm catching up" thing (especially on mobile, b/c multi-quotes suck on phone), but the concluding thoughts don't really give enough substance to warrant the conclusion that there's been much effort put into the whole thing, rather than just looking like effort.

And if that sentence feels too wordy (it does to me), well that's because I'm still only a quarter through my first caffeinated beverage.

Anyway, off to read the Venesara case now.

[Tennes]

I'm back and will be around for most of the day. I see the Prazec case still has zero momentum so a question to y'all: do you honestly believe Prazec wrote Okral correctly once, then wrote Okral correctly again, then there was a whole ass discussion about Okral Okral Okral, and then out of nowhere around timeout and possible modkill of not-seen-before Okaros, Prazec pulls that name out of the hat? Come on.

Need to read up on what happened since I went to sleep but quick note about Gait. The more I talk to them, the more suspicious I get. Look at this:

Gait, on 15 May 2020 - 02:14 AM, said:

[SNIP]

After looking at the vote train, it took 11 votes. Thyrllen only ever had 2 votes on them at any point day 1. Read back to the vote reasons and there wasnt much actual momentum. Thats why I backed off.

Since then Thyrllen has padded their post count saying alot about nothing immediately after my last post on how inactive they were and how close to modkill I thought they might be. THAT says alot.

I am happy to vote them out.

Vote Thyrllen

edit: autocorrect changed Thyrllen to Thryllen

Even if you backed off from the derailment narrative, you were pushing it strongly before. And now you're trying to wiggle out of it by being like HEY LOOK I ACTUALLY VOTE THYR but your take on Thyr was never my biggest issue with you. I straight up said that it's weird how you were all over the derail narrative and you didn't as much as name drop anyone who started the Okral train. Who says a train was derailed and then doesn't even look towards the people who derailed it. It's like you're refusing to acknowledge the existence of Rikkter, Skintick, and Kalse. Makes me wonder why.

[Skintick]

I find myself in a conundrum.

I don't like how Thyr is playing. He fits the coasting scum playbook, and he hasn't really offered any content. The throwaway vote on Fanderay is a very "hey, look at this black kettle" vote.




HOWEVER




the "day 1 train" on him consisted of 2 joke votes, in the early hours of Day 1. So anyone trying to build up this conspiracy theory of "derailing a Thyr lynch train" is either dumb as a post, or a malicious liar. And the amount of votes that are perpetuating this narrative worries me. If we have 4 scum, that's an impressive voting block that can certainly swing things very quickly.




The case on Venesara seems to be that they've had an unhealthy interest in the now-deceased Merrid. This could play out both ways, and I'm not really convinced.

Can we get a vote count, please?




And where the fuck is Gamelon?

[Sheltatha Lore]

Gait, on 15 May 2020 - 12:38 PM, said:

I like the case. It echoes a few of my thoughts early on Day 2.

Still I'm suspicious of Sheltathas misvote on Thyrllen.

I mean both Thyrllen and Hanas make good candidates for scum. Sheltatha looked to be interested in Thyrllen then almost immediately goes after Bharghast/Hanas.

Either its ADD or diverting attention.

I'm not sure I trust it.

misvote?

[Kalse]

Back and caught up.

What is it now, 4/3/2 or 3/3/2 for Thyrllan/Venesara/Hanas, with some singletons? Sorry, it's been a while we had a PS post and on mobile it's a pain to keep track, in particular with Shelthata switching a couple of times.

I am happy with my vote on Venesara, but would be available and willing to switch to one of the others to get a lynch (again, not sure how much time left in the day, 7-8 hour?). Both Thyrllan and Hanas have a similar case of hiding in plain sight, if I followed correctly.
Of the two, I would prefer Hanas, because of the strange quick posts shifting to Thyrllan after my second vote on Venesara, maybe it was a derail attempt, or because of the few posts that quickly in the day made it a either/or between Venesara and Thyrllan (even though there were just a few votes on either), maybe they are both inno and scum is happy to push this fight today. If you are paranoid about enough things eventually you get one right

[Kalse]

Sheltatha Lore, on 15 May 2020 - 01:14 PM, said:

Gait, on 15 May 2020 - 12:38 PM, said:

I like the case. It echoes a few of my thoughts early on Day 2.

Still I'm suspicious of Sheltathas misvote on Thyrllen.

I mean both Thyrllen and Hanas make good candidates for scum. Sheltatha looked to be interested in Thyrllen then almost immediately goes after Bharghast/Hanas.

Either its ADD or diverting attention.

I'm not sure I trust it.

misvote?

You forgot to remove vote before switching from Okaros to Thyrllan. I don't know how strictly this rule is applied

[Sheltatha Lore]

Okaros, on 15 May 2020 - 12:39 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 15 May 2020 - 12:34 PM, said:

Okaros, on 15 May 2020 - 12:04 PM, said:

Props to you, that's the most coherent case I've read so far. I want to see how the accused responds, but this is something I could swap from Venesara to at the moment. However, I do think you stretch a bit with that final Barghast post though - you think Barghast is defending Hanas at the same time as saying that scum can be identified by coming out to defend their fellow scum? Seems a little too dumb to do that!

Also, I disagree with both you and Barghast on that particular point. I'd be more inclined to suspect those who don't interact whatsoever, rather than those who supposedly leap to the defence of another (but that's something which only becomes noticeable with more time).

I symp would most certainly be so blatant. IMHO

That would be one crappy symp. Symps deflect and point suspicion towards others, they don't defend their masters. IMHO. So the conclusion rests on Barghast just being that crappy. My ultimate point was, however, that leaving that bit aside, your case on Hanas reads quite solid.

thats how this game works tho... we cant simply write every interaction off because its too obvious.

how else are we going to find connections?

[Sheltatha Lore]

Kalse, on 15 May 2020 - 01:20 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 15 May 2020 - 01:14 PM, said:

Gait, on 15 May 2020 - 12:38 PM, said:

I like the case. It echoes a few of my thoughts early on Day 2.

Still I'm suspicious of Sheltathas misvote on Thyrllen.

I mean both Thyrllen and Hanas make good candidates for scum. Sheltatha looked to be interested in Thyrllen then almost immediately goes after Bharghast/Hanas.

Either its ADD or diverting attention.

I'm not sure I trust it.

misvote?

You forgot to remove vote before switching from Okaros to Thyrllan. I don't know how strictly this rule is applied

oh... ok and how is that an issue again?
happens all the time.

[Tennes]

Worth noting: Ruse has gone AWOL after it's been pointed out they look scummy, letting more active players fight it out and take the heat. They have literally 4 posts, including pushing a false lynch narrative and a very secure Okral vote. They haven't showed up to respond to any of the accusations. Ruse would be my pick for a low-lying scum.



Big cases at the moment seem to be Venesara, Thyr, Hanas.

* Ven is looking sloppy and struggles to make a coherent point. There's no rhyme nor reason to the stuff they post and Kalse laid that down well. I was convinced but the more I think about it, the more I can't help but think scum would just try harder and pay more attention. Like, if you have more information it's so much easier to make a good point. And Ven hasn't made one so far.
The thing that concerns me, though, is that when Ven started getting heat for their responses, they just went back into hiding and case on Thyr boomeranged back into the thread. Coincidence?

* Thyr and Hanas are both solid coasting cases and I'm currently drawn more to them than to the Ven train. I'd like Thyr to explain why did they look so much into Merrid's last posts. That line in particular:

Thyrllan, on 14 May 2020 - 09:35 PM, said:

Is this Merrid's last post? Did he die for this?

What kind of question is that? Do you seriously think scum would look at one of Merrid's messages and be like oh yeah we need to kill them for that. You're too experienced with Mafia to not know this is horseshit.

As for Hanas, I already talked about my issue with their late vote. It bothers me how they insist it was a good move when it was so blatantly pretending to be useful without actually contributing. It stinks of scum hoping Town doesn't get the votes to lynch and washing their hands when the plan doesn't pan out.

I feel stronger about Thyr and Hanas than I feel about Venesara. Haven't made up my mind yet but I'm in vicinity for most of the day if we need more votes.

[Kalse]

Skintick, on 15 May 2020 - 01:09 PM, said:

<snip>


The case on Venesara seems to be that they've had an unhealthy interest in the now-deceased Merrid. This could play out both ways, and I'm not really convinced.

Can we get a vote count, please?




And where the fuck is Gamelon?

That's not really the case on Venesara, at least not mine.

[Tennes]

I think the status right now is

1 vote Prazec Goul; Tennes
1 vote Fanderay; Thyrllan
1 vote Barghast; Aranatha
2 votes Hanas; Rikkter, Sheltatha Lore
3 votes Venesara; Kilava, Kalse, Okaros
4 votes Thyrllan; Skintick, Jalan, Barghast, Gait

~8 hours to timeout