[Aptorian]

I'm in the first open world area you're let into after the story prologue. I'm currently picking up quests in Chainscrape.

I'm blown away at the production value of this game. The environments and structures are all beautiful but what is really standing out to me, is the cut scenes and dialogue scenes. I've never seen characters this well designed in a game before, not even The Last of us 2 or Red Dead Redemption 2 I think.

The amount of detail in the characters and the quality of the mocap and voice work is astounding. The writing isn't all great but just watching the characters interact is fascinating.

[Briar King]

Shit is gorgeous on PS5. The haptic feedback is sweet. I’m so lost though. I really should have went back and attempted to beat ZD and Wilds before West hit. Watched some hour long recaps today. Not much help. Hopefully the burnout doesn’t hit like in ZD and hopefully the human AI is much smarter this time. Need to try and play strategy over bulling through this time.

[Aptorian]

The game has an extremely long intro and prologue to the game. I just made it past the embassy mission and only now the game is ready to send me into the West. That's after 8-10 hours I think.

Mind you I also did every quest and question mark on the map before moving on

This post has been edited by Aptorian: 20 February 2022 - 10:07 AM

[Briar King]

I was so fucked up last night but I killed

Spoiler

cobra machine thing

without dying once. Surprised cause I’ve already been taken apart many times by Burrowers.

[Briar King]

So my controller seems to have bugged out right as I got to the Daunt. My blue lights shut off and I can’t do the swipe up command that comes up in prompt.

I then randomly began to see that apparently this game is seriously messing with some PS4 and 5’s and I don’t know if this is related to that so I’m probably calling a time out on this game till some updates hit.

[Slow Ben]

Reason number 17 I don’t buy games day 1.


Besides the f ups, how is it?

[Aptorian]

For what it's worth the game has run with out a hitch on my PS5. Perfect performance. Really fast load times as well.

I'm loving the game so far. So far it's mostly seems to be More of the same, just improved and tweaked here and there. And then with a couple hundred million poured all over it in production values.

[Briar King]

So your blue lights are on? What comes up when you swipe up on pad?

I’m still light less and swipe less on this game since getting to Daunt last night.

[Tavvar]

I have had no problems with the game on a PS4, and my GF has had no issues on a PS5.

I'm also loving the game so far, they basically improved every system from HZD. The story is heavily dependent on knowing the HZD story, but I've played in four times, so I know the story pretty well. I've already logged 30 hours in the game, and am only at 30% completion...

I'm struggling to remember the Stamina and Valor Surges. I don't need them in most fights, then forget about them until after the tougher ones.

[Aptorian]

When I've had time for games, I've mostly been playing Destiny the past couple weeks.

How ever I have been able to put in some hours on the main story in Horizon 2 this week and it's managed to surprise me.

The story takes a left turn I had not all expected. How the internet hasn't spoiled some of those early game revelations I don't know.

Don't look in here until you've played well past Death's Door and Aloy has cleared the first Cauldron during a story mission.

Spoiler

There's future people in the game! And they're like Superman villains! Like Lex Luthor and General Zod.

And an Aloy clone!

And a super secret cave base you can populate with NPC buddies!

And a Gaia AI!

I'm not exactly floored by the story telling of the game over all but the plot certainly takes you weird places I had not imagined.

[Cause]

I’m enjoying this game sure.

That said I don’t feel like it’s the perfect polished masterpiece the first was. At least that’s how I remember it. The story in the first game was so riveting I had to search for every data point, watch every hologram. Delving into old ruins was always exciting.

Forbidden west though rather than an evolution just feels like a sideways progression. I’m probably 20 hours in so by no means is it a bad game it just doesn’t feel better than the first. Just an alternative. For the most place they play identically. However I feel like they put in some questionable design choices.

Weapon system:
There is too much redundancy in the weapon system now. 7 elemental attacks. Fire, plasma, purge, adhesion, lightning, acid and ice. Fire now seems so weak as to be pointless, ice slows and makes targets vulnerable, and lightning shocks them in place. So was a glue bomb weapon that slows movement needed? There is also 3 tiers of every arrow, and also pierce arrows, berserk arrows, and targeting arrows. You just can’t have every ammo type in your Arsenal. Never mind wanting to include the other weapons. Than every weapon also has 3 special attacks. Rather than feeling like an awesome tool box it feels like to much.

Platforming:
They leaned hard intonplatforming this game. With a rope caster to grab grapple points and your focus highlighting claimable terrain. However the controls can be wonky and falling near and end of a platform if puzzle can require you to repeat the whole thing. It’s slow and frustrating rather than fun. Sometimes they have ladders at sections you can lower down as a way to save climbing progress but you have to go out of your way to find them. Which ruins the pacing too.

Resource mechanics:
They changed mechanics here from the first game and I find it more frustrating than fun. Now every component on a machine is practically detachable and if you don’t detach it before the machine dies it explodes. Okay! The game always encouraged detaching weak points to kill machines now it’s just tied to resource collecting. But it gets old quick. What’s worse though is some weak points explode, and if they explode the resource is lost. So killing bellowbacks by making their weak point aka a giant sack of blaze or chill water on their back or at their throat wastes their most valuable collectaible. Without those weak points though they are a hundred arrow slogfest to kill.

Not to mention they added food rations, which are really just a subtype of potion but required the addition of 50 food specific resources. Honestly if they left this out I suspect no one would have cared.

Paying to fast travel is back, with no golden fast travel pack in this game as far as I can see. Remains a bizarre gaming choice in my mind.

Robots:
Same with weapons to much redundancy. 43 machines in this game I think. Some machines have ten variants. The whole point of horizon I feel is to start out like a complete moon and slowly gain an understanding of the mechanics and learn machine vulnerabilities. First thunderjaw takes ten minutes to kill, the tenth takes a minute. In forbidden west I feel like I only encounter machines once that feeling of learning how to beat them and overcome them is missing as it’s never the same machine twice. The big machines are now covered a million detachable or other component points. Too many to really get a feel for and mix 7 elemental weak points. And than the next one might be a variant and so that weakness to fire is now no longer relevant.

[Tavvar]

I agree with much of that. I loved the first game, and have played it multiple times, but I have had trouble getting back into HFW for a second playthrough. While they made a lot of improvements, it doesn't quite have the same feel as HZD.

I don't use half the weapon or ammo types, too many options. I like the idea for resource collection, and it fits the game world, but it does add some frustration now that those specific parts are required for upgrading weapons (and I tend to prefer simpler systems in RPGs). I always hate food in games, another layer of complexity; and in HFW, I never remember what my food does.

[Slow Ben]

You all’s responses is what I’ve heard from pretty much everyone.

I’ll still probably play it, but wait till it’s on clearance.

[Briar King]

I was hoping the game would reignite the fire for me but it didn’t. I didn’t get very far before turning off. Very pretty on the PS5. Most likely will not be getting game 3 if it is made.

[Malankazooie]

I'm still leisurely playing through it. After my console went bonkers it messed with my flow, so now I'm going at a much slower pace.

I agree with much that has been stated as far as overwhelming the player with weapons and crafting and such. I just ignore it and it works for me mostly, and I just let myself get more powerful gear organically. Basically I've just distilled it down to swapping out for purple gear won upon misson/side quest completion, and hope to get some orange (legendary or unique) gear pieces soon. Looks like the Arena can provide access to those, but I haven't been bothered with that and just get gear that is tied to story and other missions. I think the elemental type is something I need to be more aware of. I need a purgewater weapon and have yet to attain one, or have one that is too weak.

I hate the rebel camps in this game. They were not great in HZD, but in this it's more of that, with added damage sponge layered on it. I think the developers are forcing you to get super strategic with it or something, which is sorta pointless because you mostly have to take out the leader and sneaking through to get him and avoiding the others (while pretty easy) is just very tedious. I usually end up brute forcing through a camp, which at that point the game seems to switch to damage sponge mode and the rebels can crit hit you if you take too long. I've had problems with camps that I easily exceed the min level suggested because of this.

I'm playing on hard and am at level 41. There's only a few more skills I can attain, most of which don't really appeal to me. Like doing more damage while on your mount or taking less damage when you trip your own traps. But I guess I'll get them when I attain the points.

About mounts, there are a few that I really want t override, so that is something outside story/side quests I will pursue.

But yeah, like AC games, this title is bloated with new systems and locations on the map. Seems cool on paper, but it has to be fun. The Arena is an example. I haven't really had any motivation to take on waves of machines to win some currency, specific to the arena of course, that can then be used to by orange gear.

Oh yeah, about the fast travel pack. You can fast travel for free from any camp fire, and there are tons of them all over the map. Once I defogged a majority of the map, it's really the only way I fast travel now. I bought ten of those fast travel packs or whatever they're called, and I think I've only used four of them.

I would recommend playing Horizon Forbidden West though, because there are moments and experiences of awe that the first game provided. Just ignore all the systems and work on the pertinent quests. I've only created a job twice (to upgrade a purple hunter's bow). Other than that it's been story quests and side quests (which there are a lot of). There's also a lot of dialog trees to navigate through when talking to the npcs. And that's done to overkill also. The story has been pretty interesting though, imo.

[Cause]

@Malankazooie

I finished the entire game without ever using a purgewater weapon. I am not sure I even ever owened one. Again highlighting the ridiculous redundancy in the system.

For legendary gear, keep clearing bandit camps for an awesome one. The other route is something I have never done in any other game but I blitzed through the arena by changing the difficulty level to easy, finishing the challenges buying the best gear in the game and changing the difficulty back to normal. I just wasnt finding it fun otherwise and it gatekeeps most of the legendary gear. I miss how in HZD you got a truly unique weapon in the tearblaster for completing all the hunter challenges.

This game I didnt complete most hunter challenges and I didnt complete most cauldrons. Felt unnecessary.

Also I know you can travel fire to fire but its still tedious. Why not just fast travel as needed for free. I finished the game, I was just hunting machines for upgrades or trying to fight the big ones. Why make me pay 25 shards, Its not that I cant afford it. Its just poor game design IMO. I also gave up farming for upgrades when the game started forcing me to farm apex machine hearts, they only appear at night and only some fires have the option to change game time. So its travel to fire, wait for night, travel to the fire near the machine fight and repeat 5 times, for one level upgrade. No thank you!

Forbidden west actually feels like a game designed by committee with no one in charge to say no to any of the ideas. So you have six skill trees, 2 of which I feel are wholly unnecessary. 7 weapon elements, 3 tiers of ammo, a food system etc. The trapper skill tree unlocks 'skills' that were just your default in HZD. in HZD you could place more than 2 traps and trip wires without having to unlock skills. It made a niche playstyle even more niche

[Malankazooie]

While the elemental damage doesn't seem to be as essential as it could be, I do find it helps, especially playing on hard setting, especially when you incorporate traps. For example, I set an advanced trap that does electric damage (corresponding to the machine's damage type) on one of the big baddies (a Thunderjaw I think), and it damn well took it down about a 1/4 to 1/3 health right off the jump. I could have started with arrows and spears but it would have been a drawn out affair. I've also noticed freeze helps noticeably, as does acid. I'd really like to try purgewater to get them in the drenched state and see how that alleviates an otherwise more intense encounter.

I've dropped my difficulty mode down to normal, and once to easy to fight some of the bigger baddies I wasn't ready for. The easy mode was for a baddie in one of the cauldrons I believe. I didn't want to get stuck down there. I forget which machine it was though, but it was a tough one that I don't think I was level'd up enough for.

I didn't really get into the hunter challenges in the first game, except as a tutorial for the weapons. In HFW I've done those melee pits that are new in the series, but I haven't actively sought them out. They have been helpful in understanding how to take on rebels with shields and such, and to combo/damage them to get them to that condition where you shoot the glowing blue target on them.

Oh yeah, the food system. I have a meal quick menu'd, but I always forget to use it.

Yeah, the material and various things you gather as trade (or 'currency') to buy things is a lot. Every time I go to a settlement with vendors I always check to see what they have because they will often sell stuff for pouch upgrades and such (like Owl wishbone as an example). It's just a pain to go back to the crafting table and then back to the vendor and check if they have the material. I think creating jobs is supposed to help with this though. So agree, because all of this busy resource and mgt. of stuff, the fast travel should be free after a point.

Also agree about the skill trees. There are skills that I don't see much value in unless you play a specific way that is very niche; why add to the complexity of the skill tree screen for that specific action?

So yeah, it's seems like they threw everything +plus the kitchen sink at it, decided it all sticks and went with it. Quite a contrast playing this to Ghost of Tsushima. Don't get me wrong though, I really enjoy aspects of Horizon Forbidden West and there are moments to be had that will please fans of the original. Just bloat man, eliminate some or streamline it.

[Tavvar]

I hope Guerilla reads the critiques of HFW and de-bloats for the third game. There is just a bit too much going on in this one.

I don't like the melee in HFW, I know it wasn't great in HZD, but this isn't a melee game, its a back up system if stuff gets too close. I think they should go back to the simpler/boring system from HZD. I have never been good at combo games, so I just avoid melee and shoot things.

I think the Hunter's Lodges in the first game were interesting, and they taught me how to play the game better (by looking up how to win on YouTube...). I HFW they seem too easy, and the Arena is not really a good substitute, forcing weapons out of my playstyle for tough fights makes it really hard (vs HZD lodges focusing on one weapon type at a time).

I absolutely loved it when I played through, the world and characters are still great, but there's just a little too much. I'll have to see what I think on a second playthrough.

[Cause]

Tavvar, on 01 September 2022 - 03:22 PM, said:

I hope Guerilla reads the critiques of HFW and de-bloats for the third game. There is just a bit too much going on in this one.

I don't like the melee in HFW, I know it wasn't great in HZD, but this isn't a melee game, its a back up system if stuff gets too close. I think they should go back to the simpler/boring system from HZD. I have never been good at combo games, so I just avoid melee and shoot things.

I think the Hunter's Lodges in the first game were interesting, and they taught me how to play the game better (by looking up how to win on YouTube...). I HFW they seem too easy, and the Arena is not really a good substitute, forcing weapons out of my playstyle for tough fights makes it really hard (vs HZD lodges focusing on one weapon type at a time).

I absolutely loved it when I played through, the world and characters are still great, but there's just a little too much. I'll have to see what I think on a second playthrough.

I think they should lean into melee being a death sentence and force stealth to be the solution for clearing human enemies. That said they would need to improve camp design and stealth mechanics quite a bit too. Camps were the worst part for me in HFW and HZD. That said again they surprisingly removed good systems, locked normal mechanics behind skill treest and added bloat. What happened to jumping down from ropewires and assassinating people. Human Enemies in HFB are also absolute arrow sponges, in addition to being melee sponges.