[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

At first I wasn't sure if I was having chills or it just got colder out. If it's chills and accompanied by a fever then I imagine wrapping myself in warm blankets may just make the fever worse... got out the thermometer. Mild fever.

Definitely having a worse reaction to the second shot. Ache behind my left knee, headache, mild nausea... fatigue contending with euphoria.

[Edit: actually a mild fever, not a moderate fever.]

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 28 May 2021 - 05:10 PM

[Tsundoku]

I feel sorry for the guy's family.

https://www.news.com...87132b1ee6a0779

Anti-vaxxer dies of Covid-19 complications
An anti-vaxxer has died due to complications from Covid-19 after criticising people getting the jab and posting “I have an immune system” on Facebook.

Jesse O’Neill, New York Post
MAY 30, 20217:28AM

A 33-year-old sheriff’s deputy in the United States who publicly criticised the effectiveness of coronavirus vaccines has died from Covid-19 complications.

Daniel Trujillo, a married father of two, died on Wednesday, the Denver Sheriff’s Department said.

“It is with great sadness that we share 33-year-old Denver Sheriff Deputy Daniel ‘Duke’ Trujillo passed away last evening from Covid-19 complications,” the department wrote on Facebook on Thursday.

“We ask that you keep his family in your thoughts and prayers and respect their privacy. We also ask that you pray for the members of our Department as well.”

The former Marine had posted several anti-vaccination messages on social media in recent months, according to The Daily Mail.

On May 7, Mr Trujillo changed his Facebook profile picture border to read “I have an immune system,” an apparent rationale for not getting inoculated, the outlet reported.

Last month, the border photo read “I don’t care if you’ve had your vaccine,” according to the article.

Screengrabs from a post shared by the deputy in April reportedly include a TikTok post of a Marine railing against vaccines, the Mail reported.

“Being a marine has taught me one thing: never be the first to volunteer,” the man said. “Y’all rushing out there standing in line to get the vaccine like folks rush out to get the new iPhone, and if history has told us any new product that ever comes on the market is always full of problems. And you know how they fix those problems?”

Mr Trujillo captioned the clip, “I’ll get it later on after y’all start growing appendages out of y’all’s foreheads,” according to the report.

The deputy also reportedly disparaged mask wearing on his social media accounts, which appeared to have been scrubbed as of Friday evening.

Mr Trujillo worked at Denver’s Downtown Detention Center, where another relatively young deputy was killed by the coronavirus less than two weeks ago

Deputy James Herrera, 51, died of Covid-19 on May 16, sheriffs said.

There have been 1,261 Covid-19 cases at the jail — with 107 of them among staff members — since April 2020, according to The Canon City Daily Record.

Law enforcement officers were not required to become vaccinated, and the department does not keep track of who received an immunisation, according to the article.

“Vaccinations were a choice,” Daria Serna, a sheriff’s department spokeswoman, told the paper.

[Aptorian]

Quote

Screengrabs from a post shared by the deputy in April reportedly include a TikTok post of a Marine railing against vaccines, the Mail reported.

“Being a marine has taught me one thing: never be the first to volunteer,” the man said. “Y’all rushing out there standing in line to get the vaccine like folks rush out to get the new iPhone, and if history has told us any new product that ever comes on the market is always full of problems. And you know how they fix those problems?”

Mr Trujillo captioned the clip, “I’ll get it later on after y’all start growing appendages out of y’all’s foreheads,” according to the report.

See, these quotes make it sound like he wasn't outright anti-vaccine. Just more of a sceptic.

I actually agree. I certainly didn't want to be the first to get any of the vaccines. The difference is of course that I don't feel a need to tell the whole world about that.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Aptorian, on 30 May 2021 - 03:31 AM, said:

Quote

Screengrabs from a post shared by the deputy in April reportedly include a TikTok post of a Marine railing against vaccines, the Mail reported.

"Being a marine has taught me one thing: never be the first to volunteer," the man said. "Y'all rushing out there standing in line to get the vaccine like folks rush out to get the new iPhone, and if history has told us any new product that ever comes on the market is always full of problems. And you know how they fix those problems?"

Mr Trujillo captioned the clip, "I'll get it later on after y'all start growing appendages out of y'all's foreheads," according to the report.

See, these quotes make it sound like he wasn't outright anti-vaccine. Just more of a sceptic.

I actually agree. I certainly didn't want to be the first to get any of the vaccines. The difference is of course that I don't feel a need to tell the whole world about that.

... and yet he also shared an anti-vax rant. IDK if I'd convict him 'beyond a reasonable doubt' (unless the 'punishment' were vaccination with Moderna... and he wasn't already dead).

'serious side-effects are very, very rare. And, together with what we know about previous vaccines, if side-effects are going to occur, they usually happen within a few months after getting a vaccine.'

https://theconversat...-effects-155714

Granted, 'usually' is not 'almost always' (notable exceptions?). And the previous vaccines distributed on this scale have not been mRNA vaccines. 'Technically, mRNA vaccines are not new. They, along with other RNA therapeutics, have been in development for decades, and many mRNA vaccines were in phase 1, 2, and 3 trials before the COVID-19 vaccines were created. There simply has not been the level of urgency to produce them to combat a virus as we have seen in this pandemic.'

https://www.oligothe...-creating-them/

'TikTok users are falsely claiming that vaccinated people will soon die, leaving them to inherit the earth. [...]

[...] the TikTok users are picturing themselves climbing atop or striding toward various things, facing away from the camera. "I am Optimus Prime," the voiceover intones, "and I send this message to any surviving Autobots taking refuge among the stars. We are here. We are waiting." The videos are hashtagged with a mixture of anti-vaccine hashtags like "#unvaccinated" and others, in a bid to have them appear on users' "For You" pages and get more views. The most-viewed video has nearly half a million likes thus far.'

https://www.vice.com...-lone-survivors

OTOH:

'Not long ago, CDC told us that the benefits outweigh the risks when it comes to blood clots and the J&J vaccine. At the time, they estimated that the risk of blood clots after taking the J&J vaccine was 7 per million. Roughly 30-50% of these cases led to death.

What's the death rate from Covid-19?

Japan's death rate has not breached 0.8 per million in the entire pandemic. In the U.S., we experienced periods of high death rates, above 7 per million. The risk vs benefit trade-off is different for each country, [...] different for different age groups, ethnicities, genders, [occupations, PPP and other precautions,] etc.'

https://junkcharts.t...r-business.html

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 30 May 2021 - 03:49 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Was freaking out a little when I remembered I had forgotten to suspend my anti-inflammatory diet before my second shot. At first I was comforted by being unable to find any warnings about this on the internet, and by a few (non-rigorous) sites actually recommending an anti-inflammatory diet even though I had read about studies finding tart cherry's anti-inflammatory properties comparable to ibuprofen, and the CDC is recommending people avoid ibuprofen before vaccination... though not after.

Unfortunately, unless I'm misreading the research, it seems to indicate that the same mechanism most likely behind the recommendation to avoid ibuprofen could apply equally to anti-inflammatory diets like the one I'm on:

'NSAIDs can help stop pain and other symptoms because they are Cox blockers. That's "cox" ending with an "x." NSAIDs inhibit the effects of Cox-1 and Cox-2 [...] blocking the Cox, as NSAIDs do, could possibly limit your immune system's response to the Covid-19 vaccine.'

https://www.forbes.c...virus-vaccines/

'the aglycone cyanidin from tart cherries showed comparable anti-inflammatory activities to ibuprofen and the non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug naproxen when comparing COX-I and COX-II inhibition activities.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC6413159/

https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/11695879/

(I drink 4.5 g of tart cherry concentrate / day and 4 tablespoons of olive oil, in addition to vegetables, and turmeric with fat and pepper. 'Don't eat fruits or vegetables before getting vaccinated!' would be amusing public health advice....)

However, as the CDC recommendations reflect, the studies which found NSAIDs decreased immune response before vaccination (prophylactic) also found no decrease in immune response when taken *after* vaccination:


'these data suggest that other COX-independent mechanisms are involved in the blunting of the antibody response by antipyretic analgesics. A major mechanism is through the inhibition of nuclear signaling and transcription pathways. In a recent review, Purssell proposed that COX inhibitors decrease antibody response through inhibition of the mitogen activated protein kinase (MAP) and extracellular regulated protein kinase pathways (ERK).'

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5027726/

But:

'Signaling pathways regulated by tart cherry included Protein Kinase

[...] we identified 62 differentially regulated proteins. Among these, inflammatory, oxidative stress and apoptosis-related proteins were significantly down-regulated by tart cherry'

https://faseb.online...upplement.625.4

However, the studies on NSAIDs also found no effect from taking them before booster shots. The second Moderna shot is technically a booster shot. But the time intervals I was able to find for the studies (actually age intervals) seemed to be at minimum 7 months, not 4 weeks. And the vaccines in the studies weren't mRNA vaccines. If it's a matter of 'transcription' (I'll grant I'm not certain what this means) at initial exposure, then it might not matter at all for the second shot.

For my situation---I did have what seemed to me like moderately severe side effects from the second shot. ''[...] infectious disease physician and assistant professor at Rutgers New Jersey Medical School, said these are "signs of an appropriate recognition and immune reaction to the vaccine."

The side effects show that the vaccine is teaching your immune system how to recognize and attack SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that causes COVID-19, if it encounters it.'

https://www.healthli...ovid-19-vaccine

However, I haven't (afaik) had a fever or chills for years. Many other people had more severe reactions---higher fevers, shivering, aches in more places, more prolonged symptoms (granted, I still have a headache and fatigue... probably from the side effects). So I still may have slightly reduced the vaccine's efficacy. Though Moderna apparently showed 'about 92.1 percent' efficacy from just the first shot after 14 days. Unfortunately efficacy level already depends on the variant---and worse variants are almost certainly on their way, if the pandemic is allowed to continue to rage in parts of the world....

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 30 May 2021 - 07:49 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

My biggest concern for my own safety after I'm fully vaccinated---assuming any variants which achieve vaccine escape will be widely publicized before reaching my area---is long haul covid from mild or asymptomatic cases. Debilitating brain fog etc.

'What is the Risk of Long Covid after Vaccination?

This [New York Times] article, although it presents only one anecdote, does show that long Covid is at least possible after being fully vaccinated. As immunity evasive variants grow as a share of new infections, we might even expect this kind of occurrence to become more common as time goes on. A redditor claims that four vaccinated people he knows still ended up symptomatic. He could be lying, but maybe these variants are getting good at their job.

[...] I ran into this preprint from the folks from JoinZOE and the Covid Symptom Study app. If you take a look at tables 8 and 9, you can see that the authors found no evidence for reduced incidence of symptoms lasting >28 days after vaccination in the younger age group (given that infection did occur, of course). The effect was significant in the older age group. I should add that this was self reported data and not a trial.

What are we to make of this? Do vaccines not protect us against long Covid in the way that we hoped they might? Of course, if we don't get infected, this isn't an issue. But if we are infected, then are we really at equal risk of developing long Covid as someone who was infected without vaccination?

[... commenter:] The only explanation (with the assumption that long Covid risk as a proportion of infections is actually lower in vaccinated individuals) that I can think of for why the JoinZOE paper may have found no significant effect in the reduction of long Covid as a proportion of cases (despite strong priors in favor of the opposite) is that perhaps people think of Covid less now and are more likely to drop off using the app if their symptoms don't persist than they were in say, December 2020 or January 2021. '

https://www.lesswron...ter-vaccination

https://www.nytimes....ns-vaccine.html

Preprint:

https://www.medrxiv....8v1.full#ref-20

[Aptorian]

Azath I think you've ventured into that area of internet research, where it's time to step away and occupy your mind with something else. Even professional virologists don't agree about this stuff. Spending your time worrying about what will or will not happen to you or the general population isn't healthy.

There's a reason why doctors ask you not to google your own symptoms.

On another note. I'm seriously considering signing up for the J&J vaccine, since the regular vaccine schedule for Denmark is now extended into September. I can't imagine getting poked in the nose twice a week for 3 more months.

[D'rek]

Aptorian, on 01 June 2021 - 05:21 PM, said:

Azath I think you've ventured into that area of internet research, where it's time to step away and occupy your mind with something else.

Also, you've hit the point where you're (blindly?) redistributing an article which purports to be serious journalism about how people on Tiktok genuinely believe Optimus Prime is coming to revive the unvaccinated through robot magic... instead of realizing it's just another nonsensical/satirical viral meme. Just like all the times the news has thought a 4chan meme was serious business. When you're in that deep, time to go for a walk.

[Macros]

don't make me get the bottle of wine out!

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

D, on 01 June 2021 - 06:12 PM, said:

Aptorian, on 01 June 2021 - 05:21 PM, said:

Azath I think you've ventured into that area of internet research, where it's time to step away and occupy your mind with something else.

Also, you've hit the point where you're (blindly?) redistributing an article which purports to be serious journalism about how people on Tiktok genuinely believe Optimus Prime is coming to revive the unvaccinated through robot magic... instead of realizing it's just another nonsensical/satirical viral meme. Just like all the times the news has thought a 4chan meme was serious business. When you're in that deep, time to go for a walk.

Meme is actually implying that, like Optimus Prime in the speech, they'll be

Spoiler

the only survivors on Earth or whatever

after everyone who takes the vaccine dies.

Thought the point of quoting that was clear in context, but guess I should have prefaced it with: 'But maybe you'll end up like' (as in, maybe by delaying taking the vaccine you'll be among the only survivors after the rest of us drop dead) and followed up with 'LOL'....

Some anti-vaxxers are seriously saying they think the vaccine will kill people, but I'd like to think the Optimus Prime memes are a joke... especially since the speech frames the speaker as the *sole* survivor, which even within the anti-vax frame is obviously ludicrous. IDK though. You may be right about the full article taking the meme too seriously.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 01 June 2021 - 07:17 PM

[QuickTidal]

Azath Vitr (D, on 01 June 2021 - 07:16 PM, said:

Some anti-vaxxers are seriously saying they think the vaccine will kill people, but I'd like to think the Optimus Prime memes are a joke... especially since the speech frames the speaker as the *sole* survivor, which even within the anti-vax frame is obviously ludicrous. IDK though. You may be right about the full article taking the meme too seriously.

Apropos of nothing:

Those same people spent a week or so on Tiktok using the Hunger Games Mockingjay whistle sound and salute to signify they were proudly un-vaxxed. Missing ALL the context of the film they were using, or the blatant idiocy of that concept in the way they used it. (as if they were being oppressed somehow, claiming they were being FORCED to take the vaccine).

Luckily, the right side of TikTok with the health care workers and sane people took that concept/sound and used it to hold up their vaccine cards/proof of vaccination, and the meme died for the anti-vaxxers...still...funny.

Anti-vaxxers are morons. My sister is one.

[Macros]

i can confirm that sisters can be moronbs

[Malankazooie]

When I stopped into the corner liquor store to pickup adult libations for the long holiday weekend, the clerk said I no longer need to wear a mask. I told him I'm probably going to keep wearing a mask long after the pandemic is off the news and we are totally back to pre March 2020 rhythm of life. Said I'm going to do it just to trigger the anti-maskers/anti-vaxers and see if they want to make a comment to me about it. I welcome that opportunity to play.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Malankazooie, on 02 June 2021 - 12:57 AM, said:

When I stopped into the corner liquor store to pickup adult libations for the long holiday weekend, the clerk said I no longer need to wear a mask. I told him I'm probably going to keep wearing a mask long after the pandemic is off the news and we are totally back to pre March 2020 rhythm of life. Said I'm going to do it just to trigger the anti-maskers/anti-vaxers and see if they want to make a comment to me about it. I welcome that opportunity to play.

Liquor store closest to me used to have a strict no hoods policy and an armed guard roaming around inside, so I didn't try wearing my P100 mask in there (early on in the pandemic, pre March 2020). Wonder if they'll eventually ban masks (almost all Pennsylvania liquor stores are state-run). Hopefully not for a while.

Heavy drinking suppresses immune response, so I'm going to stay on the safe side by keeping it to no more than 2 or possibly max 3 / day for a while (technically heavy drinking is > 4 in a row or > 14 in a week, so 4 / day every day would be heavy drinking, could do 4 once in a while though), even after I'm fulling vaccinated and even when (/ if) I start interacting with people in person (beyond picking up packages) again.

Going to try to stay outside more so I might let myself vape occasionally ('Safer Vapors', no added flavors, etc. so minimal risk). Did see something alarming in the local paper---study found teenagers who vape were 5 times more likely to get Covid. But many other studies indicate that smokers in general have been less likely to contract Covid, possibly 'because nicotine interferes with ACE2 receptors, which may prevent the virus from entering cells'.

https://www.bhf.org....rus-and-smoking

Most likely explanation seems to be that teenagers are using black market vape pens and/or juices.

My risk of hospitalization or death seems negligible post-vaccination but long haul Covid would seriously fuck up my life plans.

[Edit: of course another option to technically be under the 'heavy drinking' category as defined above would be 4 drinks 3 days a week, 2 one day, and abstaining the other days. Still not sure how arbitrary these drink numbers are, or exactly how to weigh the risk.]

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 02 June 2021 - 01:49 AM

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

Azath, what effects have you seen from your anti-inflammatory diet?

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Whisperzzzzzzz, on 02 June 2021 - 03:20 AM, said:

Azath, what effects have you seen from your anti-inflammatory diet?

Nothing obvious, though I tend to have a high pain tolerance. It's anti-inflammatory by accident for the most part. (Tart cherry for sleep, turmeric for liver, olive oil for stroke... and because I like it.)

So, getting back on topic, even though the arguments against taking NSAIDs before vaccination seem like they should probably also apply to tart cherry and other anti-inflammatory foods with comparable Cox and kinase inhibiting effects, the benefits of better sleep could outweigh a slight negative impact, though foregoing tart cherry before vaccination on the day of my first shot didn't have any noticeable effect on my ability to fall asleep.

For people who are using an anti-inflammatory diet to manage chronic pain it might be harder to forego prior to vaccination.

[Cyphon]

BK you should get vaccinated even if you think you may have already had it.

Feeling rough for a few days after the vaccination is way way way way better than being hospitalised or worse.

The vaccines are all for the main form of coronavirus and have proven effective for all the variants so far. The best position to be in is having had both doses of the vaccine and should a problematic variation come out you'll have some Protection and be in position for a booster shot which they should be able to develop reasonably quickly.

[Tsundoku]

Whisperzzzzzzz, on 02 June 2021 - 03:20 AM, said:

Azath, what effects have you seen from your anti-inflammatory diet?

Smaller haemorrhoids?

And yes, get vaccinated. The angle they're using here is "it may not stop you getting it, but it will keep you out of hospital".

So I'll be getting it (hopefully Pfizer) the moment I can spare a few days or so to get over the side effects.

So I figure sometime in 2023.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 02 June 2021 - 09:29 AM

[Macros]

Just get it and be done Somb

[QuickTidal]

Macros, on 02 June 2021 - 10:19 AM, said:

Just get it and be done Somb

This.