[King Lear]

Macros, on 13 March 2020 - 09:04 AM, said:

Why the fuck is trump refusing to be tested.
I mean I know why, he's a paranoid wreck, but surely a fit to rule situation has to be in play here and a doctor should just jab a swab down his fucking throat

People are speculating it's because he already has been tested - he's been potentially exposed twice, once through people in his circle who went to CPAC and once through Bolsonaro's guy.

But the guy has always told lies, much as we're encouraged to forget that since he first got the nomination, so it's entirely possible he's just lying about it.

It's also a nasal swab, I believe, so maybe he's uncomfortable with that? He's, again, always been pretty neurotic and that's not aged well either.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 12 March 2020 - 09:21 PM, said:

They are closing our schools for two weeks after March break to fight it.

Rationale makes sense... kids return from Spring Break, more will be exposed than would otherwise be the case, show less if at all, will spread it faster and infect adults, so keep them out of school for the quarantine period.

The flip side is the absolute FUBAR this will create for service and retail people who have no childcare alternatives and can't go to work. Beats not going to work due to illness tho'.

[QuickTidal]

Silencer, on 13 March 2020 - 02:11 PM, said:

Hell, it's still a panic. Yes, immunocompromised and elderly people need to be protected. Those are the people who should be getting supplies and support. Instead, it's all the *healthy* people cleaning out store shelves and acting like they might die. For most of them, this isn't a serious health risk and a bit of common sense hygiene and self isolation when symptoms present and through sickness are all that is necessary.

Sorry, what proof/source do you have that it's all healthy people getting supplies and the ones that need it aren't getting it? How do you know how may of the people doing it aren't getting it for the immunocompromised and elderly around them/in their lives? These are numbers you don't have to make a statement like this. You can only see what the media tells you and think "Man, people are insane".....meanwhile everyone's individual story is different.

I went to the store this AM to get my mother-in-law stuff because she is immunocompromised and in a wheelchair at home, immobile...I am a perfectly healthy younger dude...if you saw me shopping for that stuff you'd automatically lump me into the crazy prepper category...but looks are deceiving.

Are there crazy people out there doomsday prepping? Yes. Are they the lions share? I HIGHLY doubt it. Are the elderly and immunocompromised not getting supplies? I also highly doubt it.

Wanna know what the main age of the people mobbing the grocery store I was at last night was? Over 70...so, the elderly.

Silencer, on 13 March 2020 - 02:11 PM, said:

The problem is, that the overreaction we are seeing is not the "we took excessive precautions and flattened the curve", it's borderline doomsday prepping, and it has the potential to cause more harm than good (see above about people who are actually at risk not having the supplies to stay safe, plus economic impacts that are driving the world towards recession - though that could very well happen with lack of a proper reaction too).

It's a bit of a balancing act to get people to treat this seriously while not tipping the balance too far that way.

Imagining you can stop the panicking people is a waste of time and breath. You can't. Humanity was always this and will always be this. All you can do is try to educate and mitigate that panic. There is no worldwide pandemic that shuts down EVERYTHING in the span of 24hrs that results in that balancing act you are seeking. It simply has never existed, because people en masse are emotional and reactionary.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 13 March 2020 - 02:26 PM

[Abyss]

King Lear, on 13 March 2020 - 02:20 PM, said:

Macros, on 13 March 2020 - 09:04 AM, said:

Why the fuck is trump refusing to be tested.
I mean I know why, he's a paranoid wreck, but surely a fit to rule situation has to be in play here and a doctor should just jab a swab down his fucking throat

People are speculating it's because he already has been tested - he's been potentially exposed twice, once through people in his circle who went to CPAC and once through Bolsonaro's guy.

But the guy has always told lies, much as we're encouraged to forget that since he first got the nomination, so it's entirely possible he's just lying about it.

It's also a nasal swab, I believe, so maybe he's uncomfortable with that? He's, again, always been pretty neurotic and that's not aged well either.

He's totally been tested. They're just not admitting it or releasing the results.

...and since we could expect him to brag about negative results, the likely conclusion is he's got it but only mlld or asymptomatic.



Meanwhile in Canada the PM's wife tested positive. PM himself is negative.

[Silencer]

QuickTidal, on 13 March 2020 - 02:25 PM, said:

Silencer, on 13 March 2020 - 02:11 PM, said:

Hell, it's still a panic. Yes, immunocompromised and elderly people need to be protected. Those are the people who should be getting supplies and support. Instead, it's all the *healthy* people cleaning out store shelves and acting like they might die. For most of them, this isn't a serious health risk and a bit of common sense hygiene and self isolation when symptoms present and through sickness are all that is necessary.

Sorry, what proof/source do you have that it's all healthy people getting supplies and the ones that need it aren't getting it? How do you know how may of the people doing it aren't getting it for the immunocompromised and elderly around them/in their lives? These are numbers you don't have to make a statement like this. You can only see what the media tells you and think "Man, people are insane".....meanwhile everyone's individual story is different.

I went to the store this AM to get my mother-in-law stuff because she is immunocompromised and in a wheelchair at home, immobile...I am a perfectly healthy younger dude...if you saw me shopping for that stuff you'd automatically lump me into the crazy prepper category...but looks are deceiving.

Are there crazy people out there doomsday prepping? Yes. Are they the lions share? I HIGHLY doubt it. Are the elderly and immunocompromised not getting supplies? I also highly doubt it.

Wanna know what the main age of the people mobbing the grocery store I was at last night was? Over 70...so, the elderly.

Silencer, on 13 March 2020 - 02:11 PM, said:

The problem is, that the overreaction we are seeing is not the "we took excessive precautions and flattened the curve", it's borderline doomsday prepping, and it has the potential to cause more harm than good (see above about people who are actually at risk not having the supplies to stay safe, plus economic impacts that are driving the world towards recession - though that could very well happen with lack of a proper reaction too).

It's a bit of a balancing act to get people to treat this seriously while not tipping the balance too far that way.

Imagining you can stop the panicking people is a waste of time and breath. You can't. Humanity was always this and will always be this. All you can do is try to educate and mitigate that panic. There is no worldwide pandemic that shuts down EVERYTHING in the span of 24hrs that results in that balancing act you are seeking. It simply has never existed, because people en masse are emotional and reactionary.

Did you buy an three 32 packs of toilet paper more than a week ago?

If so, yes, I'd consider you a panic buyer. No matter who you were buying for.

We're talking about completely different experiences and levels of shopping here.

As far as do I have numbers to back up my claim? Of course not. Do you have numbers to back up your counter-claim? No.
Which is why my post clearly uses a lot of speculative language, that sentence aside. I'm not saying what *is*, I'm saying what *could be*, and basing it on my personal experience for which I think is more likely.
And as far as anecdotal evidence goes, I've got plenty of it. Two immune compromised people at my work, last week, couldnt get shit they needed at *any* supermarket. So it wasn't them or their families buying this shit in bulk. Might it have been other families of immune compromised people? Sure. But it's just as likely to have been some idiot panic buying. Which was, I believe, my point.
Furthermore, if you're clearing out stocks of rice and toilet paper in bulk, you're part of the problem, end of. Because it only takes a few crazy people buying up 10x what they need to leabe "not enough" for everyone else. Again, I personally think this a more likely reason for empty shelves than people doing the right thing by their families. Because people doing the right thing by their families still aren't buying enough to cause shortages...

[Obdigore]

Ok guys, save your tussle over toilet paper for the actual supermarket.

Thanks.

This has been a notice from never a mod.

[King Lear]

Silencer, on 13 March 2020 - 02:11 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 13 March 2020 - 12:35 PM, said:

Mezla PigDog, on 13 March 2020 - 09:48 AM, said:

I am going nuts here with all the panic. Healthy people are being such pricks about it. Is it just because I've been exposed to infectious disease research my whole professional life? I feel like some kind of autistic person who can't comprehend the emotion around me.

*snip*

Now, there is something to be said about actual panicking like hoarding TP, and food and goods, ect. But it's kind of unavoidable when many people are told by their gov't not to worry for two months...and then in the space of 24hrs EVERYTHING shuts/suspends/cancels. That's not normal, and that's why people have freaked out a little. You can't expect them not to do so when we are talking about whole communities. An individual can be smart, circumspect, and do the right thing....but the masses are prone to the emotional gut reaction of "What the hell is going on?!" and they react. That's humanity.

------------

Yeah, see, I don't know about elsewhere, but here this bullshit started long before things began getting to the point of shutting down/closing. It started when we had 1 confirmed case and 0 deaths.

That was definitely a panic.

Hell, it's still a panic. Yes, immunocompromised and elderly people need to be protected. Those are the people who should be getting supplies and support. Instead, it's all the *healthy* people cleaning out store shelves and acting like they might die. For most of them, this isn't a serious health risk and a bit of common sense hygiene and self isolation when symptoms present and through sickness are all that is necessary.

The problem is, that the overreaction we are seeing is not the "we took excessive precautions and flattened the curve", it's borderline doomsday prepping, and it has the potential to cause more harm than good (see above about people who are actually at risk not having the supplies to stay safe, plus economic impacts that are driving the world towards recession - though that could very well happen with lack of a proper reaction too).

It's a bit of a balancing act to get people to treat this seriously while not tipping the balance too far that way.

I think people are pretty primed to act this way right now. I don't remember quite this much level of panic when the swine 'flu rolled around. But I suspect that the accumulation of natural disasters, political upheaval, terror attacks, and fears over outcomes of global warming are pushing an 'every man for himself' panic button in a lot people. Things feel unstable, and I think especially for people who aren't used to much instability in their lives, they're scared and and they would rather bolt and hoard rather than looking at what they can do for not just themselves but their people, their friends, their community. They're controlling the few things they know they can. I don't know how many people read Terry Pratchett but it reminds me of Fred Colon and the sugar lumps.

They're basically the people who aren't rich enough for the bunker crowd who are hoarding not just bog roll but medical personnel and equipment, which I suspect I'm not alone in thinking is far worse, especially because we know precisely who will get first dibs on respirators, never mind the tests mentioned in the article. (it is genuinely funny to me that the 'calm down, it's just a 'flu' crowd are also the same people who will buy themselves top spot in a triage one way or another.)

[Mentalist]

My work-imposed exile continues for at least another week.

Still gonna have to venture into the city on Thur, because I have a hearing downtown.

[King Lear]

Wow suggesting vulnerable people are still getting what they need in spite of panic buying is a bit of a weird take when you can go on literally any social media and there are all sorts people in distress all over the world because their usual places are out of stock and they can't afford reseller's rates. I'm shocked you don't know anyone who's struggling, because I sure as hell do.

Shelves are literally empty. CVS (a pharmacy) is literally out of stock for rubbing alcohol, never mind medical stuff or personal hygiene. My first aid kit is a bit bare bones so I've been adding bits and pieces where I can, on the basis that unless you're really sick, getting any kind of healthcare is going to be pretty fraught in the next couple of weeks and even stuff like hand cream and calamine lotion is just fucking gone.

Edit for failure to proofread

This post has been edited by King Lear: 13 March 2020 - 03:00 PM

[Malankazooie]

People act like toilet paper is the only option to clean your backside and there are no alternatives. For fuck sake, we're really done with common sense aren't we. Has no one ever gone camping and really roughed it? Not talking 'glamping' here, but legit packing in everything on your back and hiking miles to where you set up your tent? And we have to clear the shelves at the nearest grocery store because we have nothing else that can suffice in our houses.

[Obdigore]

Malankazooie, on 13 March 2020 - 02:58 PM, said:

People act like toilet paper is the only option to clean your backside and there are no alternatives. For fuck sake, we're really done with common sense aren't we. Has no one ever gone camping and really roughed it? Not talking 'glamping' here, but legit packing in everything on your back and hiking miles to where you set up your tent? And we have to clear the shelves at the nearest grocery store because we have nothing else that can suffice in our houses.

Buy stock in the bidet industry.

[King Lear]

Man I wish we had a bidet. Although, stories of people attempting to install their own are enough to make you wary

[QuickTidal]

King Lear, on 13 March 2020 - 02:56 PM, said:

Wow suggesting vulnerable people are still getting what they need in spite of panic buying is a bit of a weird take when you can go on literally any social media and there are all sorts people in distress all over the world because their usual places are out of stock and they can't afford reseller's rates. I'm shocked you don't know anyone who's struggling, because I sure as hell do.

Suggesting they aren't in any significant numbers is also a weird take, but whatever.

I also never implied that no one is struggling. I simply said that assuming that everyone who needs things is not getting it because of everyone else is just as reactionary a statement without much evidence.

I and merely taking the tact that assuming hard in either direction is silly because everything is tainted by individual experience. Yes you sure (as hell) know people who are struggling, just like I know people who are not. I can go to a grocery store in downtown Toronto and find empty shelves and nothing to buy, and I can also find ones where there is plenty (my wife just texted me that the one she went to just now is fine, big line-ups, but plenty of stock).

No one here is dealing in absolutes...which was my point. But we're well off topic now.

[Malankazooie]

Obdigore, on 13 March 2020 - 03:00 PM, said:

Malankazooie, on 13 March 2020 - 02:58 PM, said:

People act like toilet paper is the only option to clean your backside and there are no alternatives. For fuck sake, we're really done with common sense aren't we. Has no one ever gone camping and really roughed it? Not talking 'glamping' here, but legit packing in everything on your back and hiking miles to where you set up your tent? And we have to clear the shelves at the nearest grocery store because we have nothing else that can suffice in our houses.

Buy stock in the bidet industry.

It also begs the question, how much toilet paper are people using to wipe their asses?

[King Lear]

Too much, according to twitter.

Don't ask me how I know.

[King Lear]

QuickTidal, on 13 March 2020 - 03:08 PM, said:

King Lear, on 13 March 2020 - 02:56 PM, said:

Wow suggesting vulnerable people are still getting what they need in spite of panic buying is a bit of a weird take when you can go on literally any social media and there are all sorts people in distress all over the world because their usual places are out of stock and they can't afford reseller's rates. I'm shocked you don't know anyone who's struggling, because I sure as hell do.

Suggesting they aren't in any significant numbers is also a weird take, but whatever.

I also never implied that no one is struggling. I simply said that assuming that everyone who needs things is not getting it because of everyone else is just as reactionary a statement without much evidence.

I and merely taking the tact that assuming hard in either direction is silly because everything is tainted by individual experience. Yes you sure (as hell) know people who are struggling, just like I know people who are not. I can go to a grocery store in downtown Toronto and find empty shelves and nothing to buy, and I can also find ones where there is plenty (my wife just texted me that the one she went to just now is fine, big line-ups, but plenty of stock).

No one here is dealing in absolutes...which was my point. But we're well off topic now.

Oh for Christ's sake, it's not a fucking stretch to say that when shit starts getting low the first people to be impacted are the most vulnerable.

https://www.theguard...buy-coronavirus
https://www.bbc.com/...london-51837892
https://fortune.com/...e-toilet-paper/
https://www.nytimes....face-masks.html

It's not a complex extrapolation. If you can't get face masks because of panic buyers and you're sick, people are not getting what they need. If your food pantry runs out because of panic buyers, people are not getting what they need. If hospitals can't get masks and corporations can't get handsanitizer, people are not getting what they need on a large scale.

Do you not understand that your ability to go to multiple supermarkets and have a partner that can do the same is a luxury that many many people do not have? Do you understand what vulnerable people means? What does you knowing people who aren't struggling have to do with the existence of a large number of people who are having a really hard time right now? This is absurd

This post has been edited by King Lear: 13 March 2020 - 03:23 PM

[King Lear]

Trump administration blocks states from using Medicaid to respond to coronavirus crisis really leaning in hard to that mitigating fear thing I guess

Edit because fuck it, today is Edit Friday and I really had to add this as a counterpoint because it made me laugh:

PornHub Helps Italians Stay Indoors with Free Premium Access

This post has been edited by King Lear: 13 March 2020 - 03:36 PM

[QuickTidal]

King Lear, on 13 March 2020 - 03:23 PM, said:

Oh for Christ's sake, it's not a fucking stretch to say that when shit starts getting low the first people to be impacted are the most vulnerable.

I never said it was a stretch. I said it's not that simple.

Also, the anger you can leave aside. I know you historically don't like me, but we are just talking here and can be (I assume) civil.

King Lear, on 13 March 2020 - 03:23 PM, said:

It's not a complex extrapolation. If you can't get face masks because of panic buyers and you're sick, people are not getting what they need.

If the vulnerable are already sick, then they don't need facemasks if they are self-isolating as is the instructions. No one healthy who is not a health worker needs facemasks. Wearing one while healthy is more damaging than not because of how it forces you to touch your face.

King Lear, on 13 March 2020 - 03:23 PM, said:

If your food pantry runs out because of panic buyers, people are not getting what they need.

Again, people seem to be stocking up to handle a quarantine they know is coming. That's not panic buyers, that's people trying to handle the situation.

King Lear, on 13 March 2020 - 03:23 PM, said:

If hospitals can't get masks and corporations can't get handsanitizer, people are not getting what they need on a large scale.

This is being dealt with here by guarding those supplies now. Source: Wife works for a hospital. And hand sanitizer at the corporate level (those machines that dole it out) is done in bulk and is not suffering any shortages. Source: we just got a whole bunch at my office and the office manager asked if there was any shortage and was told no. It's the little bottles that people buy for everyday use that are selling out, being gouged at the price level (and that's definitely not good)...but above and beyond all that hand-washing is much more effective anyways, and that's largely free.

King Lear, on 13 March 2020 - 03:23 PM, said:

Do you understand what vulnerable people means?

My dying mother-in-law? My overtaxed, overweight, past75 father-in-law who is a full-time caregiver? My mother who had two collapsed lungs a year ago and has trouble breathing? My stepfather who is currently recovering from Cancer surgery and heart surgery?

Yeah, I think I do, so you can get out of here with the condescension.

King Lear, on 13 March 2020 - 03:23 PM, said:

What does you knowing people who aren't struggling have to do with the existence of a large number of people who are having a really hard time right now? This is absurd

You're putting words in my mouth. I'm literally saying that both the groups exist, but that every situation is going to be different and screaming about everyone being "crazy doomsday preppers" is not helpful.

That's it. You seem to be on some tear to shit on that opinion by forcing it into an 'us or them'...it's not. This whole situation is not black and white and people everyone are trying their best to handle what's coming, and that figures into a tonne of complexity.

Vulnerable people should absolutely be getting what they might require. People who can do so should advocate for them in that regard. If I see a random asshole snapping up everything on a given shelf, I'd very much tell them where to go...but if I see a mom with three kids getting a few extra boxes of Kraft Dinner to handle a long time at home behind a possible quarantine, I'm not going to feel bad about thinking she's okay to do that.

[King Lear]

Lmao of course you'd accuse me of being angry. Don't preach civility at me like this:

QuickTidal, on 13 March 2020 - 03:08 PM, said:

Yes you sure (as hell) know people who are struggling, just like I know people who are not.

isn't contemptuous as hell. I'm not angry, and strong language use is not a sign of anger, but you already know that. Whining about how I don't like you when over the years I've been on this forum you've repeatedly returned to framing what I say as an overly emotional response isn't a particularly impressive observation.

You can skip the lecture though, it's pretty self evident to me that lots of people are struggling and if you don't care to see that it's really not my problem.



MODGOD NOTICE OF
OK BOTH PARTIES
END OF DEBATE
THANKS

This post has been edited by Abyss: 13 March 2020 - 04:11 PM

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 13 March 2020 - 12:35 PM, said:

...Last night's grocery store trip (which was just our weekly trip) was bananas because once they decided they are closing our schools for 3 weeks, everyone went a'shopping....lol. I was still able to get most of the stuff but the shelves were barer than I expected and lineups were pretty insane.

Same, and no major lines. Empty shelves were a thing to see tho'.
Didn't need tp or wipes but can confirm there were none to be had. Ample wetwipes and paper towel tho'.