[Puck]

Tatterdemalion, on 22 November 2019 - 02:00 AM, said:

It's not German. It's unique terms to his fantasy world borrowed from German. He just admits he uses a bastardized form of German for the linguistic basis of his 'magic' system / world building, and recognizes this may irritate German-speakers. There's no actual German or attempt at German in the book. Not fluent in the language, it sure didn't bother me. It deterred me, but once I started reading it didn't bother me at all.

Bullshit. If you hammer random words into Google translate (which is what his stuff reads like) to make them German, it's German. Broken as hell German, but German. If he wants to create terms that sound like German to create an atmosphere, he's welcome to emulate it by having hella fun with the morphology and phonology of German and other Germanic languages. The fact that it can be done is shown best by Bakker, who created names and titles that sound Assyrian and Greek but are not.

Tatterdemalion, on 22 November 2019 - 02:00 AM, said:

As for Lawrence's polls: remember that Lawrence himself is ONE vote. The basis for voting in that poll was you could only vote if you read the book and just don't vote on books you don't know. The measure isn't a book's quality at all: the measure it 'How Grimdark would you qualify this book?' We don't know how many votes each book got, but I think only the 1st of a series was entered. No one has to see this as a 1st or 2nd place thing: Bakker and Fletcher are just hella Grimdark - enough over half of all votes put them at maximum grimdark (5).

Yeah, but at the same time Lawrence admits he doesn't care what criteria people use to vote in his polls. To him, "didn't like it, so it's grimdark" is equally as valid as far as criteria go as anything else. I freaking hate Alice in Wonderland, which does have some very dark themes. Is it grimdark? Hell no. Additionally, only taking into account the first book of any given series is equally unhelpful, considering in Fantasy is it very common for a series to come into its own voice only in the second or third installment. Anothe rpoint is, as you point out, we don't know how many people vote. A book could have gotten five votes but all going "yeah, this is totally grimdark!" for no discernible criteria and that book ending up somewhere high in the ranking.

To make it clear, I don't care whether people think Bakker or Fletcher is top dog in the grimdark ranking, my issue is with Lawrence's approach as well as his whole master of grimdark schtick. I prefer Bakker because there's a clear difference in who cared enough to do more than hammer random words into Google translate to tell his story. Like it or not, you're always going to alienate people who speak the language you are using to add fluff to your story unless you put in the research. Sapkowski wrote essays about that issue way back when and I'm sure he's not the only one. Saying "yeah, sorry 'bout that, guys" isn't really cutting it.

This post has been edited by Puck: 22 November 2019 - 03:24 PM

[Tatterdemalion]

I know there is a lower limit that must be reached before a book can be added to the poll, so none of these books have as few as 5 votes. But we don't know the top end.

We're really only talking about 20 or 30 German-sounding words here. All I'd say is anyone who thinks they can let that go, if it needs letting go, and is otherwise interested in the premise, should read Beyond Redemption because it's fantastic. I'm enjoying it's sequel at the moment as well.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

What's this German-word-appropriation issue all aboyt then?

[Mentalist]

Tatterdemalion, on 20 November 2019 - 05:19 AM, said:

amphibian: thank you, thank you! It took about 2-3 days to write and I got it in with minutes to spare for the deadline. I've submitted Rag the Grenadier to the Gdm Magazine in hopes they will pick it up and publish it, giving me an official fantasy writing credit which I can add to my resume before I pitch Purge of Ashes again. I don't think I could work Rag into my main series, at least in book 1. I DO have 5-6 chapters written in Crux (the setting for RtG) for Book #2, though, so he could turn up there. As of now, he's a short story. I have another called 'Residue' and I throw them together whenever I feel I can't work on the main story but still want to write. As well, Rag is gruesome in ways my main books aren't. As such, a good fit for a grimdark contest and magazine. Thanks again for reading it!

And Whisperzzz.... Heh. WELL.....

So when I created my first character sheet for Purge of Ashes in 2003 as a 21-year-old, I had the following ranks in the Locian Third: Squadleader, Corporal, Captain, Blade, Hand.

Squadleader leads a team of 4
Captain leads 3 squads in a unit
Corporal leads 4 units
Blade leads all 8 units
Hand is just one guy, Hand Kitran Sorel, who is the top and leads the Blades.

But I didn't know much about the military per se, and only years later did I discover that in OUR world corporal is far below captain in rank. Now this isn't a "problem" as Imbalance is MY world, so I can do what I want, but it IS a problem because anyone with vague military sense (or a large amount of Americans) will and do find it irritating that the order of rank for the two real-world terms are swapped. I've gotten the sensible suggestion: "why not switch captains with corporals? Voila."


This, of course, makes sense... but it hurts, because since 2003 I've had those titles attached to particular characters and it sounds weird to me otherwise. She's not "Captain Eunice" she's "Corporal Eunice" dammit!

In the end, though, my fussiness should not supersede a logical improvement to the book and I've finally come to grips with the fact I should change the ranks. I could also come up with new terms entirely, but... not sure on that.

Isn't the "co" word you're looking for that's above captain a "colonel" ?

[Tatterdemalion]

[/quote]

Isn't the "co" word you're looking for that's above captain a "colonel" ?
[/quote]

Perhaps in 2003 that is exactly what I was thinking.
But 'colonel' doesn't have a fantasy ring to it for me, whereas 'sergeant' and 'corporal' do for some reason. 'Captain' is sorta in between. Or at least very formal.
I wonder how much of this subconscious draws from Erikson's usage in Malazan. Probably a lot.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

Just read Rag — loved it! I'd love to explore more of Crux and Rag.

[Tatterdemalion]

Whisperzzzzzzz, on 24 November 2019 - 04:53 PM, said:

Just read Rag — loved it! I'd love to explore more of Crux and Rag.

Hey, thanks! Means a lot you guys like it. I have no other plans for Rag at the moment, but there are 3-5 chapters already written about a new lead in Crux for book #2.
Also, hardcores would recall the character Olliphor is from Crux

[Mentalist]

On topic: Beyond Redemption has been on my list for a while, and I just ordered it.

Edit on Dec 21st: so I just finished it, and I'm intrigued about a sequel. I didn't think it was the best thing ever, but it's playing around with some really cool ideas.

That being said, the fact that the main cast of murderous villains and anti-heroes continually murder just about everyone meant it was hard to get much of a feel for the world- it's hard to create interesting secondary characters when everyone is dying every few pages.

In a way, it's one of the more refreshing reads for me. But that largely comes because of all the death.

This post has been edited by Mentalist: 22 December 2019 - 05:02 AM

[Tatterdemalion]

Mentalist, on 26 November 2019 - 05:56 PM, said:

On topic: Beyond Redemption has been on my list for a while, and I just ordered it.

Edit on Dec 21st: so I just finished it, and I'm intrigued about a sequel. I didn't think it was the best thing ever, but it's playing around with some really cool ideas.

That being said, the fact that the main cast of murderous villains and anti-heroes continually murder just about everyone meant it was hard to get much of a feel for the world- it's hard to create interesting secondary characters when everyone is dying every few pages.

In a way, it's one of the more refreshing reads for me. But that largely comes because of all the death.

Funny enough, I just popped in to say I just read the sequel and loved it pretty much as much as Beyond Redemption. I mean, I made this whole thread so guess I should. I can confirm it stays focused on our three leads, but with a handful of new characters. The ending is crazy horrendous and brings lots of threads together, some from Book 1. The next book, Swarm & Steel, is a closer for the trilogy - but takes place half a world away with brand new characters, so it's principally just set in the same world. I'm going to cleanse my pallet before giving it a go, but I certainly will.

Mirror's Truth gets more in depth with the central characters, and when it feels like it's going to fall apart at the seams, pulls it all in tight (or did for me).

See, the death wasn't the unique aspect to me: it was Konig and the play of the doppels. The premise of writing scenes where you have conspiring characters who are the same as their original self and ALSO must follow Konig's delusive trait that created them.... yikes. That's a knife edge to balance on. That was the part that shot it unique for me, rather than the main three. They're not so distant from, say, Monza Murcatto. I love the system of powers. I wish I had something so creative as to help sell my own work.

This post has been edited by Tatterdemalion: 27 December 2019 - 02:56 PM

[RACHEL]

I finished it last night and already started book two. I am really enjoying the idea and I am constantly reminded of Malazan in how belief becomes reality with gods and what not. I bought all three books and I am trying to get a hold of the short stories set in the universe as well.

[RACHEL]

I finished Swarm and Steel (book 3) yesterday and I loved it. It was actually my favorite of the three. Book two follows book one directly but book three is set on the same continent but only briefly mentions things relating to the first two and could be read as a stand alone. If book one didn't capture you but you are still intrigued by the premise you might want to try book three.

[Tatterdemalion]

RACHEL, on 10 February 2020 - 05:15 PM, said:

I finished Swarm and Steel (book 3) yesterday and I loved it. It was actually my favorite of the three. Book two follows book one directly but book three is set on the same continent but only briefly mentions things relating to the first two and could be read as a stand alone. If book one didn't capture you but you are still intrigued by the premise you might want to try book three.

Hey RACHEL,

Just wanted to say I finished Swarm & Steel recently and it was amazing as expected. I really find something special and unique in Fletcher's world and writing style. Most impressive to me is that the 'down time' parts where characters mull and machinate are my favourite parts - and then the action is great, too. Great combo.

I have Black Stone Heart and the City of Sacrifice books ahead of me now, but a break first.