[Tattersail_]

Khellendros, on 20 February 2020 - 09:30 AM, said:

Tattersail_, on 20 February 2020 - 07:16 AM, said:

Can we get agenda phase over with now?

I've actually been waiting for a response from you

I have nothing to add or say. I am not joining in the discussion whether to attack Toaster because I have my own issues to deal with. I'll try score points and finish as high as I can.

[Tattersail_]

Last time I dealty with you Khell, you kind of snaked me and still are benefitting from the deal. In fact, I should have not agreed to it, scored a different PO and I wouldn't have an aggressive neighbour with all the magical action cards.

[ToasTer86]

Morgoth, on 20 February 2020 - 07:42 AM, said:

I don't understand the whole king making argument to be honest. Diplomacy and politics are at the heart of this game, and inaction is also a choice. Chosing which player you'd prefer to win makes sense to me, as long as you don't sabotage your own game to do so. If your own path gives you the choice of course you'd pick the one that benefits your "allies". If I am in a poisiton to chose between D'rek and Toaster this game for instance, I'd chose Toaster since he's been a good neighbour all game, but that doesn't mean I would reduce my own chance of gaining points to secure the victory for either of them. To me it's all about the end position, points, and fun. I want the highest position I can reach, I want the most points I can get, and I want to do some fun stuff.

I don't want Toaster to win over me, but neither do I want to lose toaster's SftT. I'll finish in a higher position this round than I suspect I will if we let the game go for another round. I can probably get two points next round, but so can lots of people, and I'll be 1 SftT short of the win.

I was not part of those games. So I am not sure of course. But most games are closer then this one.
In this game there is a clear path and winner for two of the players. Instead of 3~4 players that could score and win in the same round. So it quickly does become king making, as stopping 1 player only enables the other player to win this round.

Unless the focus goes to both players , which is rarely seen because AC's, Tokens and plastic is thrown at the player that has the clearest path.

TI is in that sense the same as a game called "munchkin" it is best to be 2nd place till the last or final moment. Because the players will throw and use resources to stop the player in 1st position.

I also must be honest and say that last 3 games I played all went this way.
Solidly leading the pact and being diplomatic. Only to be taken down as the clear leader in the last round.

So with this I will stop whining about it and just see how it will go.

[Khellendros]

Tattersail_, on 20 February 2020 - 09:41 AM, said:

Last time I dealty with you Khell, you kind of snaked me and still are benefitting from the deal. In fact, I should have not agreed to it, scored a different PO and I wouldn't have an aggressive neighbour with all the magical action cards.

I don't believe I did anything to break the deal we set. You came to me with the proposal, remember, I agreed to YOUR deal, and you got my SftT out of it, which means I gave you my biggest bargaining chip, so from my point of view you got a lot out of it. And on top of that I still had to bargain with at least four other players in order to get anything out of our deal. So to not treat with me now because of that strikes me as pretty absurd reasoning, but in any case I won't push the matter any further.

[Tattersail_]

ToasTer86, on 20 February 2020 - 11:25 AM, said:

Morgoth, on 20 February 2020 - 07:42 AM, said:

I don't understand the whole king making argument to be honest. Diplomacy and politics are at the heart of this game, and inaction is also a choice. Chosing which player you'd prefer to win makes sense to me, as long as you don't sabotage your own game to do so. If your own path gives you the choice of course you'd pick the one that benefits your "allies". If I am in a poisiton to chose between D'rek and Toaster this game for instance, I'd chose Toaster since he's been a good neighbour all game, but that doesn't mean I would reduce my own chance of gaining points to secure the victory for either of them. To me it's all about the end position, points, and fun. I want the highest position I can reach, I want the most points I can get, and I want to do some fun stuff.

I don't want Toaster to win over me, but neither do I want to lose toaster's SftT. I'll finish in a higher position this round than I suspect I will if we let the game go for another round. I can probably get two points next round, but so can lots of people, and I'll be 1 SftT short of the win.

I was not part of those games. So I am not sure of course. But most games are closer then this one.
In this game there is a clear path and winner for two of the players. Instead of 3~4 players that could score and win in the same round. So it quickly does become king making, as stopping 1 player only enables the other player to win this round.

Unless the focus goes to both players , which is rarely seen because AC's, Tokens and plastic is thrown at the player that has the clearest path.

TI is in that sense the same as a game called "munchkin" it is best to be 2nd place till the last or final moment. Because the players will throw and use resources to stop the player in 1st position.

I also must be honest and say that last 3 games I played all went this way.
Solidly leading the pact and being diplomatic. Only to be taken down as the clear leader in the last round.

So with this I will stop whining about it and just see how it will go.

I think every single one of us would prefer to be in yourposition right now Toaster. Just enjoy it, and if you end up winning, it'll be deserved.

[Tattersail_]

Khellendros, on 20 February 2020 - 11:29 AM, said:

Tattersail_, on 20 February 2020 - 09:41 AM, said:

Last time I dealty with you Khell, you kind of snaked me and still are benefitting from the deal. In fact, I should have not agreed to it, scored a different PO and I wouldn't have an aggressive neighbour with all the magical action cards.

I don't believe I did anything to break the deal we set. You came to me with the proposal, remember, I agreed to YOUR deal, and you got my SftT out of it, which means I gave you my biggest bargaining chip, so from my point of view you got a lot out of it. And on top of that I still had to bargain with at least four other players in order to get anything out of our deal. So to not treat with me now because of that strikes me as pretty absurd reasoning, but in any case I won't push the matter any further.

That's not the reason. The reason is I cannot afford to push your agenda whilst I am under threat. After we made our deal you starting bargaining with L1 but doesn't matter. The deal itself should not have been made by me, not you.

[Khellendros]

Tapper, IH, Twelve, I accept your flaky deals of giving me TGs/refreshes at some later point in time and if we even still happen to border then (Tapper)

Alright, unless IH is still dealing with Morgoth/Twelve, I'm probably ready to send in my votes.

[Imperial Historian]

I can deal with Morgoth Twelve whenever as we are neighbours

[Morgoth]

I am neighbours with everyone but tappsytaps

[Galactic Council]

Alright, just missing one person's votes now!

[Khellendros]

Galactic Council, on 20 February 2020 - 01:50 PM, said:

Alright, just missing one person's votes now!

It ain’t me guv’nor!

[Khellendros]

Blend, are you certain you’re not accidentally counting D’rek again?

[Galactic Council]

Khellendros, on 20 February 2020 - 02:21 PM, said:

Blend, are you certain you’re not accidentally counting D’rek again?

No, I'm not accidentally counting D'rek again. That only happened one time!

[D'rek]

ToasTer86, on 20 February 2020 - 06:04 AM, said:

If everyone is just getting ready to attack me and the whole table turns against me. I guess it is best I also join in with the king making.

I will give D'Rek all my TG and racial notes.
Once my home system or Tequ'ran // Torkan are attacked by anyone other in a position to win ( Khell / D'Rek ). They are the only ones who would benefit from stopping me. The rest is king making D'Rek.

If Morgoth attacks me as well I will pass D'Rek my SfTT. So better start making plans to stop her as well.

I decline. Accepting any such thing from you would invalidate any sense of accomplishment in achieving whatever position I do finish the game in.

Morgoth, on 20 February 2020 - 07:45 AM, said:

Look at IH and I for instance. We've been neighbours twice, to the benefit of us both. One game I won, one game he won. At the end we both ended up attacking each other to try to prevent the other from winning (though it turned out to be futile for the both of us). Still, we attacked each other because we were in a strong position to take the victory ourselves. Would I have thrown all I had at IH if I wasn't competing for the win, I'm not sure. There were better options for gaining points I suspect.

Yes, though you two seem to always wait until the very last round before trying to take preventative measures. And it's usually too late to actually stop your neighbour at that point - they've clogged open hexes with ships, they've accumulated a ton of goods, they have tons of PDS, etc. It's too little too late and then you say "Welp, I had no chance of stopping them, good game" and do it all again the next time.... rinse and repeat instead of acting earlier next time. Feels like it's just a race to see who reaches unstoppableness first through peaceful economic build-up and a wee bit of diplomacy between you and whoever is neighbours with you in a given game, Morgoth... which if you ask me is very boring. Fine in a game of Castles of Burgundy or whatever, but TI isn't CoB.

Not that it's just you, of course. But look at this game - Toaster got first pick of slices so he picked the best one, and neither you nor Nom ever did anything even remotely pressure-inducing in the exposed planets and spaces at the rear of it. Then the player with the best slice who got to pick it first achieves all the economic objectives because they're completely unthreatened from their neighbours and is poised to win the game soonest, and has been able to build up so much they probably can't be stopped. Talk about anti-climactic. If next game you end up neighbouring the player with the best slice again, why spend a year playing it out instead of just giving them the win and restarting?

[Tattersail_]

OOhhh words were said

[twelve]

Imperial Historian, on 20 February 2020 - 07:55 AM, said:

Exactly. Joy of the game. If there wasn't a huge throw down at the end of every game I'd be disappointed.

Dunno if twelve will buy this, but if he agrees, I'd give you my sftt if you attacked Toaster’s homeworld and passed your trade PN to twelve. Deals only on the table if twelve agrees though.

Frankly the sftt should already been back in my hands. I also want to finish as high as possible.

Toast if you allow as many of us to score points this round by giving either your racial to Tatts or Tapper maybe IH then I'll take Morgoth out of the equation by holding IH to the sftt deal we already made. I'm ready for this game to be over.

[ToasTer86]

twelve, on 20 February 2020 - 02:33 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 20 February 2020 - 07:55 AM, said:

Exactly. Joy of the game. If there wasn't a huge throw down at the end of every game I'd be disappointed.

Dunno if twelve will buy this, but if he agrees, I'd give you my sftt if you attacked Toaster’s homeworld and passed your trade PN to twelve. Deals only on the table if twelve agrees though.

Frankly the sftt should already been back in my hands. I also want to finish as high as possible.

Toast if you allow as many of us to score points this round by giving either your racial to Tatts or Tapper maybe IH then I'll take Morgoth out of the equation by holding IH to the sftt deal we already made. I'm ready for this game to be over.

Sorry I do not complete understand this

[Khellendros]

They’re all saying that they give up and that you can have the victory.

[Imperial Historian]

twelve, on 20 February 2020 - 02:33 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 20 February 2020 - 07:55 AM, said:

Exactly. Joy of the game. If there wasn't a huge throw down at the end of every game I'd be disappointed.

Dunno if twelve will buy this, but if he agrees, I'd give you my sftt if you attacked Toaster’s homeworld and passed your trade PN to twelve. Deals only on the table if twelve agrees though.

Frankly the sftt should already been back in my hands. I also want to finish as high as possible.

Toast if you allow as many of us to score points this round by giving either your racial to Tatts or Tapper maybe IH then I'll take Morgoth out of the equation by holding IH to the sftt deal we already made. I'm ready for this game to be over.

Yes it should,I can help you with the TGs to score another PO in return if that helps. You'll have 7 more TGs, plus 3 from trade if it goes through so you should be in a good position to do so.

[twelve]

ToasTer86, on 20 February 2020 - 02:50 PM, said:

twelve, on 20 February 2020 - 02:33 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 20 February 2020 - 07:55 AM, said:

Exactly. Joy of the game. If there wasn't a huge throw down at the end of every game I'd be disappointed.

Dunno if twelve will buy this, but if he agrees, I'd give you my sftt if you attacked Toaster’s homeworld and passed your trade PN to twelve. Deals only on the table if twelve agrees though.

Frankly the sftt should already been back in my hands. I also want to finish as high as possible.

Toast if you allow as many of us to score points this round by giving either your racial to Tatts or Tapper maybe IH then I'll take Morgoth out of the equation by holding IH to the sftt deal we already made. I'm ready for this game to be over.

Sorry I do not complete understand this

I'm saying give your racial out to someone and I'll hold IH to his sftt deal with me and not give it to Morgoth to attack your homeworld.