[Prazec Goul]

Day One

Path-Shaper, on 14 August 2019 - 08:58 PM, said:

It is Day 1. 46 minutes remaining
10 Players still alive: Barghast, Gait, Galayn Lord, Gamelon, Kilava, Okral Lom, Prazec Goul, Rikkter, Sheltatha Lore, Venesara

6 votes to lynch, 5 votes to go to night.

1 Vote for Kilava ( Barghast )
2 Votes for Gamelon ( Prazec Goul, Gait )
1 Vote for Gait ( Gamelon )
1 Vote for Sheltatha Lore ( Rikkter )
2 Votes for Rikkter ( Venesara, Sheltatha Lore )

Players not voted: Galayn Lord, Kilava, Okral Lom

So day one you could have jumped onto Gamelon or Rikkter but create a new target with little time to go. Rikkter was the more serious of votes here, so that would have been the train to get the lynch I think.

but you do change and do exclaim there is not much time left.

Barghast, on 14 August 2019 - 09:36 PM, said:

We're minutes away and don't have enough people to lynch Kilava, so I'm gonna let it go for now.

remove vote

vote Rikkter

Then Gait,

Gait, on 14 August 2019 - 09:37 PM, said:

My initial feeling was that Shel's vote was a "poke and see what happens" type thing and I still buy that. Regarding my vote on Gamelon, the very easy "why not" bandwagon vote rubbed me the wrong way.

Rikkter's reaction has been rather OMGUS and I'm happy voting there.

Remove vote
Vote Rikkter

Barg's voting behaviour is also somewhat catching my attention at the moment. He didn't vote Rikkter earlier but he's now dropping a vote on Kilava, someone who currently has zero votes, with so little time remaining. I'm not sure what to make of Kilava but it's not generally the ideal time for a new train...

Gait posts simultaneously, calling you out about what I did at the start of this post. Then Kilava adds to the mess but time out has happened.

[Gait]

Wow, early hammer. As Barg says, it denies us a fair amount of time and Barg had made it obvious that he would be around. I think following GL's self-vote we probably wouldn't have had strong exploration elsewhere but nonetheless time is valuable.

Regarding me putting him on L-1, however, that's frankly ridiculous reasoning. To start with I was the first vote on GL; I removed my vote to reduce the chance of a speed-lynch and made it clear I would be putting it back on when I went to bed (and if I didn't you wouldn't even be talking about it). I wasn't sure that I'd be back before timeout so me not voting only cuts down our options by giving us one vote less overall. L-1 with 9 hours is also not unreasonable in this anyway.

I also notice that PG is conveniently able to point fingers at a train that he himself started without voting on. I highly dislike this pattern of behaviour. I also don't find the explanation for why you didn't vote Gamelon convincing. You could've voted earlier, you were certainly around. You could dropped the vote to prompt discussion from others and have more to return to in the morning. You're saying that alternative trains could've formed but you avoided really giving one a chance, when you could have actively presented one. And now you get to say "oh, I thought he was innocent actually, who knows if another train might've formed" after the fact.

[Prazec Goul]

Day 2

Galayn Lord's lynch starts with Gait, he uses my thoughts to expand his feelings towards GL but he fingers a few people in this post, yet has good vibes for Sheltatha.

Gait, on 14 August 2019 - 11:53 PM, said:

OK, random closing thoughts for tonight.

Kilava comes out looking worse from the Kil/Shel/Barg pissing contest (moreso than what I felt from the initial comment tbh). It also always personally rubs me the wrong way when people state the obvious about missing lynches and such; we know, no-one needs a reminder. For Barg I feel like he's been pushing in various directions pretty aggressively for what is typically thin day 1 stuff, and I'm still not keen on him starting an alternative push with the clock really ticking away. Credit to both that they did change their votes though.

It's worth making note of the unfortunate timing for PG but that actually kind of gives me good vibes because I feel like lurking scum would just continue to lurk. I also get good vibes from Shel. His initial vote struck me as a positive "let's make things happen" push that got the game started as intended and Rikkter remains a solid choice for his reaction to it.

Reading back over it however, I am going to

Vote Galayn Lord

I had overlooked it until PG pointed it out but go look at the timing of GL's comment and what is going on around it. The few posts immediately before GL's comment include Shel's vote on Rikkter, Rikkter's reaction, Barghast weighing in, Ven's vote on Rikkter, and a couple of minutes after his post we get Rikkter's return vote on Shel... he's right there and he doesn't manage to comment on any of that? Even his response to me just makes some point about CFs rather than talking about, say, my vote. I think that deserves scrutiny.

Gamelon goes against the grain once again, from day one and day two he's independently voting. His fixation on me and no other is not town like, I'd like to know his thoughts on others but only killers can afford to be single minded.

Venesara votes GL for pressure to explain himself further, I like their vote

Sheltatha Lore, on 15 August 2019 - 07:26 PM, said:

Ok, caught up. I like the reasoning on GL and see very little he has done to change the case against him. Useless townie versus coasting scum.

Let me say (with the risk of changing gameplay from here on out) that paired scum are more likely to do everything they can to be separate from each other and not linkable. If one scum goes down, the other does not want to be connected in any significant way. Thus, I do not think that looking for someone defending another person is all that useful of a strategy in this sort of game (and no, I do not buy that a 10 person game would have a symp).

I think that GL is a good bet for today, but I still want to hear from a few of the other accused alts.

Vote GL

Possibly implicating himself as a different sort of poster to his partner. Funny that although they have been on every lynch train they have not said so much. It's easy when you don't really care who gets lynched.

GL votes himself, he is at L1

Interestingly Gait removes his vote

Gait, on 15 August 2019 - 08:42 PM, said:

I'm going to

Remove vote

For now, just to avoid any accidental speed lynch. I'll put it back in a few hours before I go to sleep. The self-vote just convinces me further that it's a good lynch because to me it still avoids the main issue. The issue to me isn't how busy you are or how frequently you post - as you say you've been popping in fine - but rather what you choose to post about (or don't).

to avoid a speed lynch he says but is happy enough to reapply that vote with over 9 hours to go until timeout. What is funny here, is that it only take Rikkter 30 minutes to hammer.

Rikkter, on 16 August 2019 - 01:51 AM, said:

OK, I'm done. If not for GL, I probably would have wanted to pursue Prazec's dodginess. But, I will be asleep at timeout, and I think this lynch needs to happen.

vote Galayn Lord

[Gait]

In fact

Vote Prazec Goul

For constantly flinging shit around to see what sticks, letting other people stick their necks out on the voting, and then swooping in to fling more shit.

Even just looking at your posts this morning. Rikkter screams scum to you? Then why not actually drop a vote instead of waiting to see if everyone approves of your opinion.

[Prazec Goul]

So questions I have are;

Do we think at least one scum on the train?

Are we okay with Sheltatha being on every lynch train with minimal input?

Is Gait leading the thread?

Answers I have, there was no night kill last night because I healed Venesara. I highly doubt the killers withheld their kill. I understand this puts a target on my back but my CF will prove my innocence here whenever that will come. I debated whether or not to reveal this information but I'd rather us know and have the same information as the killers. With me and Ven off the table it leaves a smaller pool of people to lynch from.

[Prazec Goul]

Gait, on 16 August 2019 - 09:10 AM, said:

In fact

Vote Prazec Goul

For constantly flinging shit around to see what sticks, letting other people stick their necks out on the voting, and then swooping in to fling more shit.

Even just looking at your posts this morning. Rikkter screams scum to you? Then why not actually drop a vote instead of waiting to see if everyone approves of your opinion.

I've not wanted to vote because that may have seen me targeted by scum. The chances of me healing successfully again are slim, but since I have then at least the game is extended through one more day. Rikkter's early hammer and Barghast potentially being his partner could be a thing. I did call you a wolf in sheeps clothing because you play the town game very well. I am curious whether putting GL at L1 so early after stating you shouldn't do it is good or bad town play when there were other people around, or who would be around.

[Gait]

Hm OK well that certainly adds to the general muddiness.

I don't want to speculate on roles/NAs too heavily but I do prefer an explanation that doesn't invoke fuck-ups. It would also explain PG wanting to lie low. PG has been getting mentioned a decent amount but not so much that I'd expect scum to feel a need to fake-reveal.

I think I buy it.

Remove vote

At least until everyone has a chance to chime in and see if anyone counters etc.

[Prazec Goul]

Both Okral and Ven have a low number of posts. I healed Kilava night one as it was an early provisional I didn't change.

[Gait]

Prazec Goul, on 16 August 2019 - 09:22 AM, said:

I am curious whether putting GL at L1 so early after stating you shouldn't do it is good or bad town play when there were other people around, or who would be around.

I mean, I stated that I would put it back when I removed it in the first place. L-1 isn't a hammer and I stand by it as good play. If I leave my vote off it reduces towns options and increases the possibility of no-lynch. Would you be happier if I'd said that I was going to return my vote to GL and then just disappeared for the night?

Gait, on 15 August 2019 - 08:42 PM, said:

I'm going to

Remove vote

For now, just to avoid any accidental speed lynch. I'll put it back in a few hours before I go to sleep.

[Prazec Goul]

We can never know, because I would have been here, Barghast would have, I'd have been surprised if you wasn't as you have been every other day.

[Barghast]

I was thinking scum mishap is more likely than healer because it's a small-ish M&P game. In this case Gait and Rikkter are indeed looking way worse than I said earlier.

To Prazec's points:

Prazec Goul, on 16 August 2019 - 09:16 AM, said:

Do we think at least one scum on the train?

One yes, two unlikely. With Galayn self-voting I doubt scum would put two votes on a train.

Prazec Goul, on 16 August 2019 - 09:16 AM, said:

Are we okay with Sheltatha being on every lynch train with minimal input?

Good point. I was mostly keeping Shel at the back of my head as a likely partner to Kilava if they flip scum. Didn't pursue it because guilt-by-association is a weak case before you prove the associate but worth taking another look.

Prazec Goul, on 16 August 2019 - 09:16 AM, said:

Is Gait leading the thread?

How so? I don't see it.

[Prazec Goul]

I am going away for a couple of days but it shouldn't affect the game given the weekend freeze.

[Prazec Goul]

Barghast, on 16 August 2019 - 09:39 AM, said:

I was thinking scum mishap is more likely than healer because it's a small-ish M&P game. In this case Gait and Rikkter are indeed looking way worse than I said earlier.

To Prazec's points:

Prazec Goul, on 16 August 2019 - 09:16 AM, said:

Do we think at least one scum on the train?

One yes, two unlikely. With Galayn self-voting I doubt scum would put two votes on a train.

Prazec Goul, on 16 August 2019 - 09:16 AM, said:

Are we okay with Sheltatha being on every lynch train with minimal input?

Good point. I was mostly keeping Shel at the back of my head as a likely partner to Kilava if they flip scum. Didn't pursue it because guilt-by-association is a weak case before you prove the associate but worth taking another look.

Prazec Goul, on 16 August 2019 - 09:16 AM, said:

Is Gait leading the thread?

How so? I don't see it.

Yes, thinking scum mis-hap would have been bad for us as we wouldn't be looking in the right places. I may have over stepped thinking Gait is leading the thread but I do see them as having a lot of influence because like I said they are good at looking like town. I don't mind extending my trust that way (towards Gait) but I would hate to be duped.

I'd like to see what Gamelon says/does next.

[Gait]

Prazec Goul, on 16 August 2019 - 09:39 AM, said:

We can never know, because I would have been here, Barghast would have, I'd have been surprised if you wasn't as you have been every other day.

It's much easier to be certain in hindsight than it is at the time.

[Gait]

I do think there's merit looking at the early hammer itself however and I would like to hear Rikkter's explanation of that.

[Gamelon]

GL not scum in shock twist

So PG claims healer, I knew it this whole time. Funny how roled town often plays in a scum-like way to avoid being targeted by scum. Ok, I’ll go along with it while there’s no counterclaims or whatever.

I agree on the Sheltatha point.

And I do think it’s reasonable to suspect one scum on one scum off the train. I’ll take a look at that train’s development at some point, though initially I would say that’s GL’a self-Vote unfortunately somewhat muddies it straight off.

[Gamelon]

Why did you decide on Venesara, PG?

[Barghast]

Gamelon, on 16 August 2019 - 11:40 AM, said:

So PG claims healer, I knew it this whole time.

Care to elaborate?

[Gamelon]

Barghast, on 16 August 2019 - 12:09 PM, said:

Gamelon, on 16 August 2019 - 11:40 AM, said:

So PG claims healer, I knew it this whole time.

Care to elaborate?

It’s a joke based on how much I called him scum yesterday? Sorry, must remember to include three of these so that the obvious jokes are confirmed as obvious jokes.

[Prazec Goul]

Gamelon, on 16 August 2019 - 11:40 AM, said:

Why did you decide on Venesara, PG?

I'm getting picked up in a minute. I picked Ven cause I had a good read on him. Nothing too elaborate