[Maark Abbott]

Guys I've just made this Cartridge to help keep me at peak strength!

What does it matter that I had to mulch up my daughter to make it? It's a new product so it's fiiiiiiiiiiiine, there's nothing amoral about blending a human up into mush because the end product is NEW! It's GENERATIVE! Souka.

[Macros]

The end result is the same.
Feed the machine everyone else's work and push the button, out comes the flood to garbage to wash away creativity and kill the arts.

The crux of the issue

Its does not create.

Even fanfiction is creating

Parody is an art form in itself

AI is churning out words it does not understand, it is not even a mimic, its putting one word after another because its seen it done by humans.

Were I to write and homage to LotR, it would be terrible, but I would understand the words and what they mean in context.
I would have understanding ofnthe source materials

AI does not understand the hobbies got soaking wet because it was raining.
It says the got wet because the word wet usually follows rain.

The scissors analogy was perhaps to blunt (hehe) but the principal stands. Its takes works, "reads" them and sticks words together in an order it has seen before.

[Tsundoku]

Interesting editorial.

Study reveals 97 per cent of music listeners don’t have a clue what they’re listening to
As millions around the world scrambled to post their Spotify Wrapped results to their friends, very few were aware that their top 100 playlist had been infiltrated.

https://www.news.com...994eed10316bc9e

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Macros, on 11 December 2025 - 08:28 PM, said:

The end result is the same.
Feed the machine everyone else's work and push the button, out comes the flood to garbage to wash away creativity and kill the arts.

The crux of the issue

Its does not create.

Even fanfiction is creating

Parody is an art form in itself

AI is churning out words it does not understand, it is not even a mimic, its putting one word after another because its seen it done by humans.

Were I to write and homage to LotR, it would be terrible, but I would understand the words and what they mean in context.
I would have understanding ofnthe source materials

AI does not understand the hobbies got soaking wet because it was raining.
It says the got wet because the word wet usually follows rain.

The scissors analogy was perhaps to blunt (hehe) but the principal stands. Its takes works, "reads" them and sticks words together in an order it has seen before.

Essentially largely fair points (though not exactly just in an order it has seen before, more like in accordance with patterns of language-based context that it has learned---though you could call patterns a type of "order"). Purely AI generated works are not copyrightable, including the purely AI generated elements of otherwise copyrightable works (for example, if you record yourself singing an AI generated melody the audio recording is copyrightable, but the melody isn't).

On "understanding"---you're right that it doesn't "understand" in the way that humans do, and that purely language-based LLMs don't have the sort of sensory or embodied, situated understanding humans do. But LLMs are being integrated with video models and robotics. So they're also being trained on video and tactile sensors and getting an embodied functional understanding of the physical world. But you're right that they still don't understand things in the same way humans do. The feeling of "wetness" is a good example. Even being trained to tell when a human brain is experiencing "wetness" based on patterns of brain activity won't give it the same experience of wetness. But it has a mathematical partial, functional understanding in terms of patterns.

The potential for the sheer volume of purely AI generated art to drown out all human art is my biggest concern about AI in the arts, and I'm happy that Suno's agreement with Warner limits the number of free song downloads per month in what will hopefully be a mostly successful attempt to stop people from flooding streaming services with purely AI generated content.

But I'm optimistic that both purely human-made and human-made but AI-assisted art will be accurately labeled as such and still have a major audience. If people have much more free time overall and many people continue to place a special premium on art that's fully or partly human created then the net effect may be positive.

Tsundoku, on 11 December 2025 - 08:34 PM, said:

Interesting editorial.

Study reveals 97 per cent of music listeners don't have a clue what they're listening to
As millions around the world scrambled to post their Spotify Wrapped results to their friends, very few were aware that their top 100 playlist had been infiltrated.

https://www.news.com...994eed10316bc9e

Some particularly interesting findings in that article:

Quote

a new study conducted by Ipsos and anti-AI streaming platform Deezer has revealed 97 per cent of listeners are unable to distinguish AI-generated tracks from human-made songs.

More than half of the 9,000 surveyed listeners said they felt uncomfortable discovering they couldn't tell the difference, while 71 per cent were surprised by just how convincing AI audio has become.

[...] Just 52 per cent of respondents believed AI-generated music should not appear in the main charts.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 11 December 2025 - 09:07 PM

[Maark Abbott]

The general public are a terrible metric for what should or shouldn't be in the charts. See: Queen, Bieber, etc.

It's very easy to tell when a song is shat out by a Theft Engine. Incredibly so.

[Tsundoku]

Maark Abbott, on 12 December 2025 - 08:07 AM, said:

The general public are a terrible metric for what should or shouldn't be in the charts. See: Queen, Bieber, etc.

You dare mention Queen in the same breath as that little wankstain Bieber?

[QuickTidal]

Tsundoku, on 12 December 2025 - 08:37 AM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 12 December 2025 - 08:07 AM, said:

The general public are a terrible metric for what should or shouldn't be in the charts. See: Queen, Bieber, etc.

You dare mention Queen in the same breath as that little wankstain Bieber?

Yeah, my wife would have your head Maark.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Maark Abbott, on 12 December 2025 - 08:07 AM, said:

The general public are a terrible metric for what should or shouldn't be in the charts. See: Queen, Bieber, etc.

It's very easy to tell when a song is shat out by a Theft Engine. Incredibly so.

Rick Beato (former Berklee School of Music professor and probably the most popular and acclaimed music educator on Youtube---a graduate student in the music department at Temple actually recommended him to me about a decade ago) said a year ago that with generative AI vocals a lot of the time he can't tell. And since then the models have improved dramatically.

Suno in particular has gotten a lot better recently (Beato said in a recent video that Suno has won the AI race). Particularly at heavy guitars. Isolating the guitars and adding distortion could make it even better. Check out the heavy guitars in this (there are some at the beginning and later on that sound very off, but starting around this timestamp they sound pretty good, though they could use a bit more distortion---the drums don't sound as realistic (or as good) though):

思い出 by az_uki | Suno

There are often some tell-tale artifacts on vocals. But the non-timing related artifacts are mostly in the high end and can be removed with a low-pass filter or bit reduction, and rendered inaudible with reverb, saturation, and other effects. And unwanted weird timing variations can be fixed with subtle time-stretching in Melodyne. I love dark vocals drowned in reverb anyway. Like to add a vocoder too, sometimes heavy distortion, and formant-shifted vocal layers. Personally I feel like applying lots of unnatural effects to AI vocals is more "ethical", insofar as it leaves the space of relatively "dry, realistic vocals" for human vocalists (granted, as a vocalist I am a bit biased there).

For metal drums, the main issue I've been hearing is lack of weight in the low end and low mids. I was just suggesting to someone that they should layer in actual drum samples (trig hits).

(I'd find it pretty amusing if Maark tried to give me intentionally terrible advice on how to make Suno metal drums sound more realistic. Seriously though Maark, in the future you should consider training an AI version of yourself. You'll hate that suggestion now but within the next few decades I bet you'll have changed your mind---and you'll wish you had preserved your drumming technique from when you were younger. I already know of one drummer who has released an AI model of himself to generate original drum patterns based on his style that listen and adapt to the rest of your song. Though he's also a white Israeli doing what's apparently traditional Senegalese drumming, which is what makes it ethically iffy (especially combined with infinite AI generations) in my estimation, though perhaps that should depend on how original his variations on traditional Senegalese drumming are.)

The AI model used in this blind test is probably outdated but I still only got 7/10 right:

https://www.digimuzi...est-ai-of-echt/

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: Yesterday, 04:08 PM

[QuickTidal]

Who do you work for? Seriously. There's no way you fight so hard for this theft and aren't out here working for an AI company.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: Yesterday, 04:32 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

QuickTidal, on 12 December 2025 - 04:18 PM, said:

Who do you work for? Seriously. There's no way you fight so hard for this theft and aren't out here working for an AI company.

You've got it almost exactly backwards.

As I said multiple times on this forum many years ago, I want to abolish de facto forced labor and capitalism as we know it, and institute a generous UBI.

And then there will be no need for IP laws that restrict creative possibilities. That's a horrible scarcity mindset that will hopefully seem ridiculous in 50 years.

Do I have a financial interest in AI? Yes, that should be obvious because I urged you to invest in AI and robotics 5 years ago. (As with my prediction about Trump wanting to annex Canada, I don't fault you for being mad at me for having been right, QT. Dotoesvky said something like, "The more I love humanity in general the less I love individuals in particular." For me, the lower my opinion of humanity, the more I feel compassion for individuals.) But I invest in AI and robotics primarily because I believe they are morally good, not the other way around.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: Yesterday, 06:06 PM

[Macros]

There's the rub, AI will not mean money for all.

It will mean money for the few and fuck all for all.

Look at how rapidly the inequality gap is widening, all AI will do (if it doesn't implode) is accelerate that

[Abyss]

"morally good"???

Are the AI supposed to have the morals or the people making them?

[Tiste Simeon]

Yeah ai is literally another tool to exploit and make life harder for the have nots. The people whom will benefit are already far too rich. To think otherwise is just willfully ignorant.

[JPK]

The further we get down this AI rabbit hole, the more I appreciate how clear Vonnegut's predictions were in Player Piano.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

JPK, on 12 December 2025 - 06:46 PM, said:

The further we get down this AI rabbit hole, the more I appreciate how clear Vonnegut's predictions were in Player Piano.

Player Piano was published in 1952.

The Atari 2600 came out in 1977 (... and became the first wildly popular home video game console).

If it had existed back in 1950, Player Piano might never have been written.

... or if Kurt Vonnegut had been more musical, for that matter... or more of a true poet.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: Yesterday, 07:35 PM

[JPK]

 Azath Vitr (D, on 12 December 2025 - 07:35 PM, said:

 JPK, on 12 December 2025 - 06:46 PM, said:

The further we get down this AI rabbit hole, the more I appreciate how clear Vonnegut's predictions were in Player Piano.

Player Piano was published in 1952.

The Atari 2600 came out in 1977 (... and became the first wildly popular home video game console).

If it had existed back in 1950, Player Piano might never have been written.

... or if Kurt Vonnegut had been more musical, for that matter... or more of a true poet.

Ok, now I know you've gotta be trolling. You're telling me that Vonnegut would never have written a novel based around class and human labor being replaced by machines if he experienced the magic of Atari?

Best laugh I've had all day.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

JPK, on 12 December 2025 - 09:09 PM, said:

Azath Vitr (D, on 12 December 2025 - 07:35 PM, said:

Player Piano was published in 1952.

The Atari 2600 came out in 1977 (... and became the first wildly popular home video game console).

If it had existed back in 1950, Player Piano might never have been written.

... or if Kurt Vonnegut had been more musical, for that matter... or more of a true poet.

Ok, now I know you've gotta be trolling. You're telling me that Vonnegut would never have written a novel based around class and human labor being replaced by machines if he experienced the magic of Atari?

Best laugh I've had all day.

It's been a long time since I was forced to read it (in highschool AP English), but the main premise iirc is that most people would lose their sense of purpose and be miserable if they weren't being forced to work for a living. Particularly men (it was written in the 50's after all).

But video games and virtual reality---especially with AI enhancement and personalization---will give most men more meaning than their jobs ever did. (Even if they suck at sports and don't love their kids... in virtual reality AI can make them feel like champions. Or whatever.)

Mitski has a great song about people's fears about AI (wait for it):



She and Grimes should go on a musical comedy tour...

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: Yesterday, 09:18 PM