[D'rek]

Been a huge fan of this series for years and it needs its own discussion thread. Tag any and all spoilers beyond the first book!

[D'rek]

I finished Persepolis Rising about a month ago, actually. Haven't gotten to Tiamat's Wrath just yet.

(Persepolis Rising spoilers)

Spoiler

Honestly, I was a bit disappointed with Persepolis. I kept waiting for something bigger and more interesting to happen, but it... didn't. It was just all setup. All the clandestine rebellion on Medina Station seemed like it would lead to them taking back the station, or else getting into the alien sphere, setting up a desperate stalemate in the slowzone between Duarte's forces. Like, the Laconians discover the effect of firing on the sphere overloading the gates, they communicate this securely, Holden and co hack the secure communications... how does that not lead to them finding a way to manipulate that effect to stop the second dreadnought from coming through the Laconia gate? How come the anti-protomolecule appearing never amounted to anything?

I dunno, just seemed like we didn't need an entire novel of "Laconians defeat the galaxy, Holden gets captured, the crew escapes". Could've been just the first 3rd of a novel, it seems.

I thought book 4 was a bit long and drawn out, too... but at least that one had new revelations and a moon exploding at the end.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

I just finished Tiamat's Wrath.

I agree that, independently, PS does feel like it's setting the board for the next arc. But, in the context of TW, I understand why the events in the book were as expansive as they were. Detailing them so much helped set up and add weight to, among other things:
Spoilers PS

Spoiler

— The resistance
— The power of the Magnetar-class ships
— Duarte's transubstantiation
— The time-stopping, loss of consciousness effect

All of these things are paramount in TW.

Spoilers TW

Spoiler

What a ride. I knew pretty quickly that Amos wasn't lost to us forever — the repair drones had gotten too much fleshing out. Bobbie going out like the Goddess of War she's always been was a badass death, very fitting. I'm so eager to see how the (reunited!) crew of the Roci make contact with Elvi, what we learn about the reanimate Amos, and just wtf the deal is with the unknown ETs.

[Tavvar]

I've only read the first three books (caught up with the show). Loved the books, but I'm waiting to read as the series moves forward (though I'm tempted to pick up Cibola Burn every time I'm in a bookstore).

I think the show has done a great job adapting the books, but they are different enough that it was enjoyable to read the books after watching the show.

[Blend]

Tavvar, on 06 June 2019 - 05:05 PM, said:

I've only read the first three books (caught up with the show). Loved the books, but I'm waiting to read as the series moves forward (though I'm tempted to pick up Cibola Burn every time I'm in a bookstore).

I think the show has done a great job adapting the books, but they are different enough that it was enjoyable to read the books after watching the show.

Based on where the story is right now, and who in the story we've been introduced to so far, and the big reveal at the end of Season 3, I think that Season 4 is gonna basically mash together the 4th, 5th, and 6th books, or at least have elements from all three without completing the full story in the season. So I think it will be increasingly difficult to keep to that trying to read the books as the show comes out thing.

I mean, even the first 3 seasons did not really follow the books exactly. First season was like the first half of book 1, second season was the second half of book 1 and like most of book 2, and season 3 was the end of book 2 and most of book 3. I think they'll likely skip most of book 4 in favour of the big story arc that really starts in book 5, or they'll use book 4 material as flashback stuff instead of a full season story. Anyway, it will be interesting to see how they adapt going forward, that's for sure.

[Abyss]

Blend, on 06 June 2019 - 06:11 PM, said:

... I think they'll likely skip most of book 4 in favour of the big story arc that really starts in book 5, or they'll use book 4 material as flashback stuff instead of a full season story. Anyway, it will be interesting to see how they adapt going forward, that's for sure.

They could go the other direction and make S4 mostly book 4, and leave the big events from 5 onwards for S5+. I know BURN gets labelled most peoples' least favorite, but in terms of setting and events its the most self-contained of the series, probably the lowest cost to produce.

[Blend]

D, on 06 June 2019 - 03:32 AM, said:

I finished Persepolis Rising about a month ago, actually. Haven't gotten to Tiamat's Wrath just yet.

(Persepolis Rising spoilers)

Spoiler

Honestly, I was a bit disappointed with Persepolis. I kept waiting for something bigger and more interesting to happen, but it... didn't. It was just all setup. All the clandestine rebellion on Medina Station seemed like it would lead to them taking back the station, or else getting into the alien sphere, setting up a desperate stalemate in the slowzone between Duarte's forces. Like, the Laconians discover the effect of firing on the sphere overloading the gates, they communicate this securely, Holden and co hack the secure communications... how does that not lead to them finding a way to manipulate that effect to stop the second dreadnought from coming through the Laconia gate? How come the anti-protomolecule appearing never amounted to anything?

I dunno, just seemed like we didn't need an entire novel of "Laconians defeat the galaxy, Holden gets captured, the crew escapes". Could've been just the first 3rd of a novel, it seems.

I thought book 4 was a bit long and drawn out, too... but at least that one had new revelations and a moon exploding at the end.

I agree with what you've said, but it has been mentioned in interviews with the authors that PR is meant to be the start of the 3 book final arc of the series, so the fact that you felt it was mostly setup is because that's pretty much exactly what it was.

I still really liked...

Spoiler

all the guerilla warfare shite aboard Medina Station. Though we HAVE certainly touched on the way that belters have had to fight against the Inners a bit in previous books, I felt like this one really dug deep into what that really means for those involved. I also felt that though we had some abstract concept of what it was like to have to work with the more radical elements of the OPA, I felt that this allowed us to really see the nitty gritty of it all what with the OPA radicals that made the bombs.

I wish there had been more about the "everyone blacks out" phenomenon and the passenger on the Laconian battleship that took over Earth/Mars space, but I can understand that it's just set up for something I assume is going to be at the centre of the rest of the books.

Also, I think the concept of Void Cities is my absolute favourite thing so far in these books! (Well, besides Laconian tech)

I haven't read Tiamat's Wrath yet, but I will be starting it tonight given I finished Kellanved's Reach last night. I'm super excited to see what's next!

[Blend]

Abyss, on 06 June 2019 - 06:17 PM, said:

Blend, on 06 June 2019 - 06:11 PM, said:

... I think they'll likely skip most of book 4 in favour of the big story arc that really starts in book 5, or they'll use book 4 material as flashback stuff instead of a full season story. Anyway, it will be interesting to see how they adapt going forward, that's for sure.

They could go the other direction and make S4 mostly book 4, and leave the big events from 5 onwards for S5+. I know BURN gets labelled most peoples' least favorite, but in terms of setting and events its the most self-contained of the series, probably the lowest cost to produce.

You're certainly right about that story being more self-contained and cheaper, but they set up the big bad...

Spoiler

Marco Inaros

at the end of Season 3, didn't they? You think they'll just completely ignore him through Season 4?

[Tavvar]

Hmm... Maybe I'll see what they do with season 4 and then see where to go from there on the books. I don't want to wait years to read the rest of the books.

I could definitely seem them try to streamline things/alter the order, it sounds like the authors are quite aware of the differences between the two mediums and are willing to make changes to the story and characters to make it work on TV.

[Abyss]

Blend, on 06 June 2019 - 06:19 PM, said:

Abyss, on 06 June 2019 - 06:17 PM, said:

Blend, on 06 June 2019 - 06:11 PM, said:

... I think they'll likely skip most of book 4 in favour of the big story arc that really starts in book 5, or they'll use book 4 material as flashback stuff instead of a full season story. Anyway, it will be interesting to see how they adapt going forward, that's for sure.

They could go the other direction and make S4 mostly book 4, and leave the big events from 5 onwards for S5+. I know BURN gets labelled most peoples' least favorite, but in terms of setting and events its the most self-contained of the series, probably the lowest cost to produce.

You're certainly right about that story being more self-contained and cheaper, but they set up the big bad...

Spoiler

Marco Inaros

at the end of Season 3, didn't they? You think they'll just completely ignore him through Season 4?

They could, and then just pick it up in S5.
More likely tho they condense bk 4 to half the season and have a parallel plot from bk5 that builds to the finale. Realistically BURN could be done in six eps or less.

[Blend]

Tavvar, on 11 June 2019 - 05:33 AM, said:

Hmm... Maybe I'll see what they do with season 4 and then see where to go from there on the books. I don't want to wait years to read the rest of the books.

Well, all but one book are already released. The next book, according to interviews with the authors (and Wikipedia, it turns out), is meant to be the final book of the series.

Quote

I could definitely seem them try to streamline things/alter the order, it sounds like the authors are quite aware of the differences between the two mediums and are willing to make changes to the story and characters to make it work on TV.

That is definitely the case! They've mashed up some characters (I'm thinking Drummer and Sam here for book readers), the character of Diogo the Belter is more or less completely made up for the show - I think he has like one line in the first book, but because the actor was super into learning the Belter patois and really did a good job at being a Belter, they kept him around longer in the show, and they've just plain left some characters out completely.

Oh, and honestly, though Shoreh Aghdashloo is an amazing actress, there's just no Chrisjen Avasarala if she's not swearing more than a pirate who has stubbed his toe. They've loosened her language restrictions a bit after Season 1, so you get a bit more of the genuine Avasarala, but it's still not quit the same as the Avasarala from the books!

[Blend]

Just finished Tiamat's Wrath last night, and holy shit was that a great middle book to this series ending arc!!!

I felt it did enough to keep me turning the pages, even after...

Spoiler

Bobbie died and I was all dejected (though I definitely agreed that she had a very suitable death).

I'm also terrified...

Spoiler

...of the implications of Protomolecule Amos. I mean, realistically if we compare him to the only other analogues - the kids in Dr. Cortazar's secret lab - it's basically just a reskin of the Amos character's personality with a bit less violence anyway, so I expect that if anything the protomolecule will tone Amos down a bit, plus give him some very interesting insights into what's coming.

The big reveal that...

Spoiler

Holden was the one who planted the idea that Cortazar might kill Teresa was fucking brilliant. It never once occurred to me that this was Holden's long-game. I mean, I knew that he was trying to make Teresa see what was going on, but I didn't realize that he might have been the one to orchestrate it all, let alone for the simple reason to get Elvi Okoye into the chain of command. That was some well-done hiding in plain sight!

Very much looking forward to the next and final instalment of this series!!!!

[Illuyankas]

Oh wait is the next one the final one? Madness.

[Blend]

Illuyankas, on 20 June 2019 - 08:28 PM, said:

Oh wait is the next one the final one? Madness.

That is what they say! The books are pretty popular, though, so who knows?

[Maark Abbott]

I enjoyed Abraham's own name fantasy well enough. So sell this to me.

[Abyss]

Maark Abbott, on 12 March 2020 - 08:37 AM, said:

I enjoyed Abraham's own name fantasy well enough. So sell this to me.

Make me an offer.

[Maark Abbott]

Beaver Killia, on 12 March 2020 - 03:45 PM, said:

Abyss, on 12 March 2020 - 02:50 PM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 12 March 2020 - 08:37 AM, said:

I enjoyed Abraham's own name fantasy well enough. So sell this to me.

Make me an offer.

That I can't refuse

£1000 generals, no offer on specials, final offer.

[Cyphon]

https://www.tor.com/...james-sa-corey/

Last book in the series announced.

[D'rek]

Finished reading the final book today.

Looking back over the series as a whole now, it really feels like one of those 9-book series that is three separate trilogies, with each trilogy supposed to tell its own arc that wraps up after 3 books and the next trilogy starts something new - first trilogy being all politics and secret military contractor ops between Earth, Mars, and the Belters; then second trilogy having those factions united but attacked by Filip and Marco's; then third trilogy being that issue dealt with and now the whole Laconia thing. That's *not* how it's actually formatted, and those stories/aspects were interwoven together, but it still sort of has that *feel* to it, maybe especially because Laconia was such the focus of the last three.

I do think the multi-faction and Roci crew being minor people stuck in the middle was more interesting and gripping than them leading the charge against a singular antagonist in the final arc, but I can understand how it'd be hard to have kept that initial dynamic going the whole way and it did give them a good "full life story arc" sort of thing across the series. Likewise, of course I feel like I wanted more exploration of what the aliens and protomolecule were or how they worked and such than vague dreamscapeyness, but I can also appreciate that doing so would have been contrary to the whole core notion of keeping the human tech level practical.

Is the climax of the last book a bit predictable? Yeah, but ending a long series is *hard*. You can't make a character do something contrary to the personality and development you've been building up for them over 9 books, you can't not pay off the plot breadcrumbs you've been leaving.

So yeah, maybe I wasn't massively blown away by book #9 but it was still a good read and overall I'm still... satisfied. #2 and #3 are still my favourites, but this last one still felt fun and fitting.

And the epilogue was perfect.

[flea]

I fully agree with you about the series basically being a trilogy. The end felt satisfying.