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Total War: Three Kingdoms

#21 User is offline   Cause 

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 07:57 AM

Okay, I did a lot of cheating last night, reloading previous save states because the computer was being mean to me! No seriously Total War had some nasty surprises for me which I put down to the learning curve.

1st) I decided to head west and finish off the yellow turbans and take their minor settlement. No problem! I destroyed He Yi's full stack on the border, annihilated him and his army to complete destruction, marched towards the city, rested, marched and found He Yi and a full stack army waiting for me in the city! As a major charcter he is effectively immortal apparently and his death just resulted in him respawning at his closest settlement. He is like a lvl 5 commander and he was able to just muster another full stack in the 2 turns it took me to go from defeating him in the field to reaching his city? A full stack, In a minor city, with its garrison proved to be a nut too tough to crack. Weirdly minor settlements have bigger garrisons than low tier cities by a mile! Cities can have garrison buildings added I guess whereas minor settlements just start with massive garrisons.

The real difficulty came from diplomacy. I know Lu Bu is my enemy, but there is also Lu Bio (?) and and Lio Bu (?) or something like this. I know ones my ally and one was my enemy but I got confused and literally just watched a full stack walk past my army and ignored it because I thought he was friendly and he sacked one of my cities! So I decided to reset backa few turns at this moment because this was just monumental stupidity. It did finally make me take the time to figure out diplomacy and Cao Cao is like the high eleves from the Total Warhammer. He can just spend a faction unique resource to make people like him, like others or like each other. So that helps a lot! So I made my enemies my friends and quickly set up allies to the east, west and north. So I can now pretty much focus on only the Han, who are vassals of Dong Zhou, the primary enemy of my campaign so far.

Despite taking a new minor city and a minor settlement however I reamin broke, not sure how to fix this as yet.
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#22 User is offline   Tapper 

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 08:39 AM

Money is going to be tight unless you actively try ans sell accessories (Liu Bei pays usually, as hero satisfaction gives him points for his special currency, Kong Rong is going to be rich, too). As IH already said: as Cao Cao, sell food.

In addition, search amongst your diplomatic relations for a faction that wants to trade a lump sum for payment in installments.
So far, it seems most neighbours are open to these exchanges, although the profits are fairly slim: you're looking at receiving sums of around 750 gold in a lump sum now while paying the other party 60 or so per turn over the next 10 turns, or vice versa, paying 1000 now in return for 150 gold a turn for 10 turns.

The best I managed so far was Dong Zhou, paying 3k straight up to receive 425 a turn, but since you fight the Han, that will not be an option for you.
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#23 User is offline   Cause 

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 09:31 AM

View PostTapper, on 05 June 2019 - 08:39 AM, said:

Money is going to be tight unless you actively try ans sell accessories (Liu Bei pays usually, as hero satisfaction gives him points for his special currency, Kong Rong is going to be rich, too). As IH already said: as Cao Cao, sell food.

In addition, search amongst your diplomatic relations for a faction that wants to trade a lump sum for payment in installments.
So far, it seems most neighbours are open to these exchanges, although the profits are fairly slim: you're looking at receiving sums of around 750 gold in a lump sum now while paying the other party 60 or so per turn over the next 10 turns, or vice versa, paying 1000 now in return for 150 gold a turn for 10 turns.

The best I managed so far was Dong Zhou, paying 3k straight up to receive 425 a turn, but since you fight the Han, that will not be an option for you.


Why on earth would the AI make such deals? If my bank would give me 1000 golds for 900 gold back over ten years Id be a happy man! When you say search for this, is there actually a way to do this without having to just try it on each character one by one.

Yeah I must look into this selling food thing. No idea how to do it as yet. The game also seems to severely limit trade. I have a lot of allies (or rather non aggression pacts) but I think I can only have on trade route for now.

Edit to add a complaint about the game engine

I forget when it started, maybe rome 2 but the engine does continue to bug me. In rome 1 when a block of infantry attacked a block of infantry they remained blocks and fought as a unit. Now when blocks collide the quickly compress into blobs, three blocks of infantry attacking three blocks fo infantry becomes a 6 unit blob. It often just looks a mess. The engine also always seems to be so zoomed out, you have to really make an effort to zoom in. All those pretty graphics and 90% of the time I'm just looking at one flag attack another flag. Speaking of which I really need to look for a colorblind mode, I hope the game has one. The red of my faction and the green of the enemies or vice versa, I find it hard it to tell.

I also find units that route are more likely to rally then they used to. Had the same problem in Warhammer. You route half the army, finish off the other half, discover that the half that routed is scattered to the four corners but has rallied and now the battle line is just chaos as you dispatch units all over the place to mop up. Lone units that break should only rally if a commander rallies them or if they feel safe because they are surrounded by allies. I don't get how the last ten guys of a spearmen unit can run halfway off the map and the suddenly find their courage and charge a block of 100 men.

This post has been edited by Cause: 05 June 2019 - 09:54 AM

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#24 User is offline   Morgoth 

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 11:18 AM

View PostCause, on 05 June 2019 - 09:31 AM, said:


I also find units that route are more likely to rally then they used to. Had the same problem in Warhammer. You route half the army, finish off the other half, discover that the half that routed is scattered to the four corners but has rallied and now the battle line is just chaos as you dispatch units all over the place to mop up. Lone units that break should only rally if a commander rallies them or if they feel safe because they are surrounded by allies. I don't get how the last ten guys of a spearmen unit can run halfway off the map and the suddenly find their courage and charge a block of 100 men.


That's why, at least in warhammer, you needed fast cavalry or fliers to herd the fleeing units off the map. Although it depends on the factions too. Units with low leadership rally faster, like Skaven for instance.
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#25 User is offline   Tapper 

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 03:23 PM

View PostCause, on 05 June 2019 - 09:31 AM, said:

View PostTapper, on 05 June 2019 - 08:39 AM, said:

Money is going to be tight unless you actively try ans sell accessories (Liu Bei pays usually, as hero satisfaction gives him points for his special currency, Kong Rong is going to be rich, too). As IH already said: as Cao Cao, sell food.

In addition, search amongst your diplomatic relations for a faction that wants to trade a lump sum for payment in installments.
So far, it seems most neighbours are open to these exchanges, although the profits are fairly slim: you're looking at receiving sums of around 750 gold in a lump sum now while paying the other party 60 or so per turn over the next 10 turns, or vice versa, paying 1000 now in return for 150 gold a turn for 10 turns.

The best I managed so far was Dong Zhou, paying 3k straight up to receive 425 a turn, but since you fight the Han, that will not be an option for you.


Why on earth would the AI make such deals? If my bank would give me 1000 golds for 900 gold back over ten years Id be a happy man!


I did not check back to see what they did with the money. However, if a lump sum now allows me to build something that would cost me 6 turns of saving otherwise, it may be worth it, especially since I think you can rush buildings? In addition, I think there are natural cut-off points for one province minors: without another hero, they cannot expand their army, for example. Since I assume heroes also travel between AI courts, having a lump sum now allows them immediate recruitment.

On top of that, with the % that are added on top of the different types of income, it may well be that getting 600 now by paying 700 over time will get you an industry building with an additional 100 income in 2 turns, that is inflated to 145 a turn through other buildings and reforms.

In the reverse scenario, where the AI pays a lump sum and gets back less over time: if they're doing an upgrade that's six turns long, why not give me a ton of money now in return for repayment over time if they have nothing to spend it on in the meantime?

Quote

When you say search for this, is there actually a way to do this without having to just try it on each character one by one.

Not that I know.

Quote

Yeah I must look into this selling food thing. No idea how to do it as yet.

Everyone you know, has a generic (rich, poor, equal, very poor) or specific (+3, -10, 5699) indication for both how much gold and food they have, in the diplo screen. That helps a lot.

Also, scanning their lands for farmland or pastures helps to identify who may be low on food.

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The game also seems to severely limit trade. I have a lot of allies (or rather non aggression pacts) but I think I can only have on trade route for now.

Trade routes are gained through ranks (marquis, Duke, king) and through reforms and sometimes through your prime minister, heir or leader (if they are strategists).
You can trade ancillaries, lands, food and money with everyone you know, though (except Yellow Turbans).
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#26 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 04:03 PM

I have decided this is going to be my treat for getting my apartment finished.
Total war three kingdoms and then hdmi it to the big screen
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#27 User is offline   Tapper 

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 05:26 PM

View PostMacros, on 06 June 2019 - 04:03 PM, said:

I have decided this is going to be my treat for getting my apartment finished.
Total war three kingdoms and then hdmi it to the big screen

As a gentleman of discerning taste when it comes to the series: did you play and like TW: warhammer (1 or 2)?

Because Romance mode is the most like that. I haven't tried Records, which is more classic, but the whole economy is a lot like Warhammer (with much improved diplomacy), and Warhammer was a lot like Rome 2.
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#28 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 06 June 2019 - 07:42 PM

I really want to play this because of the theme except that I don't actually like these sorts of giant macro-strategy games :lol:

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#29 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 05:45 AM

Didn't play much of Warhammer at all. Rome 2 disappointed me so much I went back to playing Rome if playing any games at all
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#30 User is offline   Morgoth 

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 07:17 AM

Warhammer 1+2 is my favourite total war game.
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#31 User is offline   Tiste Simeon 

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 08:09 AM

View PostMacros, on 07 June 2019 - 05:45 AM, said:

Didn't play much of Warhammer at all. Rome 2 disappointed me so much I went back to playing Rome if playing any games at all

I have played a lot of the TW games but never got into any of them like I did with Rome. Well the ones I played before it I did (Shogun and Medieval) but nothing since, including Shogun 2 and Empire (which was rubbish)
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#32 User is offline   Cause 

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 09:18 AM

View PostTapper, on 06 June 2019 - 05:26 PM, said:

View PostMacros, on 06 June 2019 - 04:03 PM, said:

I have decided this is going to be my treat for getting my apartment finished.Total war three kingdoms and then hdmi it to the big screen
As a gentleman of discerning taste when it comes to the series: did you play and like TW: warhammer (1 or 2)? Because Romance mode is the most like that. I haven't tried Records, which is more classic, but the whole economy is a lot like Warhammer (with much improved diplomacy), and Warhammer was a lot like Rome 2.


Romance mode is still far short of Warhammer. There wont be any dragons or magic. Your general however is probably a one man killing machine. He can single handedly murder whole units, if his lvl is high enough and he is the right class. I haven't seen it, but apparently Lu Bu can practically murder whole armies if not countered properly. However the units otherwise are pretty standard stuff; polearms, bows, cavalry and they play as they should. Its a good balance between fun and realism. You can go full realism mode and instead of your general being a one man killing machine, they do it like it was in the past and your general is simply the officer in a full unit.

Some of the complaints from Rome 2 remain, the melee blob I described above. However its a good game. Worth taking a chance Id say. Watch some YouTube videos and make a decision.

View PostMorgoth, on 07 June 2019 - 07:17 AM, said:

Warhammer 1+2 is my favourite total war game.


The fantasy aspect is something I enjoy and something I think makes the game better. It allows them to finally move away from 'yes, the are both spear units but that one looks different'. There is only so much diversity in real human armies. Once you can throw in magic, and different races and things exploded with possibility. Though I think spells were something they struggled with implementing in a good way. Magic either feels underwhelming or it feels cheap, when a spell nukes over half of an elite unit in one hit.

Total war is changing, somethings I like. Somethings I dislike. Some things just make me feel ?????.

Rome 2 made a dramatic change, armies had to have generals and you could only field so many. First this bugged me, then I appreciated how it streamlined the game. In rome it took 20 turns minimum to make a full stack army, or 20 cities 1 turn (plus however many turns travel time to join up). Changing recruitment to something that happened at the generals location, based on your ability globally to recruit X men per turn and having unlocked whatever you have unlocked made a great change. I remember conquering the world with my urban cohorts in rome 1, the army was so good it only lost a few men from each unit each battle but I was in Egypt and the only cities that could retrain them were in Italy and replenishment was not a thing so the army for all its power just got weaker and weaker. It took over ten turns to send a fresh urban cohort to the army to replenish the ranks.

Similarly Attrition is something that I have always found irritating. Especially taking attrition when sieging enemy fortifications. However fair is fair and I love replenishment. Getting stuck with a unit f archers with 20 men is a thing of the past. I think 3k has maybe fixed this issue for me. If your army has supplies its fine, if it runs out it takes attrition. If you plan it right you can cross enemy territory, cross that swamp, siege that city and not take attrition. If you land it poorly.... Replenishment is slow in 3k but maybe I need to unlock some reforms.

Garrisons! Yes, absolutely yes. I think they started with Shogun 2. Leaving troops behind everywhere I went to garrison cities was a pain. The idea of an automatic garrison who would police law and order and defend my cities so I could worry less was a great move. Something in Shogun bothered me though. If you army was in a city the garrison would not count (or it wouldn't help you go above 20 units I think it was). How annoying. With Rome 2 however I was more annoyed. There is nothing worse than having a full stack on top of a might fortress city with a full stack garrison! Mostly Id just deploy back up armies and auto-resolve these clusterfucks! Id be fine with this, if they would remove the arbitrary 20 unit to an army cap. Otherwise being outnumbered 2-1 in a siege is likely impossible to win

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I will rule the Middle Kingdom under Heaven!

Things are going well. I worked South, conquering cities owned by the Vile Han. I know own 3 Commanderies. 2 commanderies unfortunately are incomplete with minor settlements owned by allies. I fixed my money problems by selling food, nice and easy. Though now I'm waiting for some deals to end because I cant upgrade my capital because it will put me in a food negative. Perhaps there is finally a TW game that wont allow you upgrade every city and every army to the max. I also managed to fix my crippling income problems by unlocking 2 more trade routes through reforms and by unlocking the rank of 2nd marquis. I'm not exactly rich but the game now only lets you build one building per commandery per turn. so I I normally have enough money when its time to do something.

My biggest problem now is that I made too many non-aggression pacts. The han territories ran out quicker than expected. I have Sun Ce to the South (rank 3rd). Liu Bio and Lia Bei (ranked 2nd and 5th) to the east and west and Yan Shua (ranked 7th) to the north. These are four major players and I'm in some sort of alliance and trade deal with all them. There are small fry I want to gobble up, but I made pacts with them too and I don't want to just break them lest everyone think I'm a treacherous monster. I may have no choice. Is there a way to get out of these things?

I think I am getting the hang of things. I also just learnt you you can recall generals from the field, they take themselves and their retinue from the field but you can recall them later and they remuster. I read this online. Need to playtest this but if you can save the maintenance costs ona guy until you need him and then put him back in the field that's great. Of course mustering takes time.
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#33 User is offline   Cause 

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 02:27 PM

Thins are proceeding nicely despite my treacherous nature. Everyone is my best friend, so when its time to expand I have no choice but to victimize someone with whom I had positive dealings with. I have gobbled up all the small friar but now its time to get deadly serious. Im surrounded by the elite. To the north is my Coalition partner Yuan Sho (ranked 3rd), he is vassalizing everyone in site but doesn't grow his own territories. He bugs me because he votes no to anyone else I try to invite to our co-coalition. To the north west, and west are Yuan Shu and his vassel Liu bio (ranked 4th) and to my south is Lady Wu (she is the heir of Sun ce, ranked 1st). Lady Wu is the one I least want to tackle, not only because of her strength but because we share the longest border. Fighting her will be a mess! As it is I have decided to invest in a small army to enhance my southern garrisons. She is aggressive. I think my best bet is to go east and take on Liui Bei (ranked 2nd). I think Im ranked 5th. Liu Bei lands are nice because the are bound by the ocean so when i have his land I'll at least have one secured bordered. Plus he seems to have a good economy and two lvl 6 cities which are lightly defended for now. Also when I attacked his minor vassel he chose not to intervene against me. My treachery will increase again but I don't know how to stop that from happening. China will be united!
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Posted 08 June 2019 - 04:06 PM

View PostCause, on 08 June 2019 - 02:27 PM, said:

Thins are proceeding nicely despite my treacherous nature. Everyone is my best friend, so when its time to expand I have no choice but to victimize someone with whom I had positive dealings with. I have gobbled up all the small friar but now its time to get deadly serious. Im surrounded by the elite. To the north is my Coalition partner Yuan Sho (ranked 3rd), he is vassalizing everyone in site but doesn't grow his own territories. He bugs me because he votes no to anyone else I try to invite to our co-coalition. To the north west, and west are Yuan Shu and his vassel Liu bio (ranked 4th) and to my south is Lady Wu (she is the heir of Sun ce, ranked 1st). Lady Wu is the one I least want to tackle, not only because of her strength but because we share the longest border. Fighting her will be a mess! As it is I have decided to invest in a small army to enhance my southern garrisons. She is aggressive. I think my best bet is to go east and take on Liui Bei (ranked 2nd). I think Im ranked 5th. Liu Bei lands are nice because the are bound by the ocean so when i have his land I'll at least have one secured bordered. Plus he seems to have a good economy and two lvl 6 cities which are lightly defended for now. Also when I attacked his minor vassel he chose not to intervene against me. My treachery will increase again but I don't know how to stop that from happening. China will be united!


You're just going to let the Emperor remain captive in the west while you attack his distant cousin?! Scandalous treason!

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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Posted 08 June 2019 - 09:12 PM

The game is doing a bad job of driving the story i have to be honest. Doesn't push you to save the emperor or anything like that. The Tyrant Dhong Zhuo is dead, I didn't kill him and I dont know who did. Possibly Lu Bu but he didn't take control of the faction. Some guy Dhong Ling (I think) did. The old capital is in the hands of Yuan Shu, my ally. Im making my way north now though, Ill try take the capital and vassalize the han soonish.

Things have been a bit crazy though. The AI is cuthroat for once. Nothing went as I planned it. Lady Wu was at war with Lio Bei within one turn of my starting up again, so I actually saw my chance and took it. Ran south to take on Lady Wu, broke my coalition with Yuan Sho and made a coalition with Lio Bei. Things went quickly and well for a while. I got a farm, a trade port and another city and crushed 2 armies of the Lady Wu. Liu Bei was running up behind me with his full stacks, we were gonna slice up her territories! Then suddenly my coalition partner vassalized her (she agreed to escape destruction but she still has massive territories)! I was furious! He scooped me no doubt! I did get enough territories to become a marquis though, so now I could make vassals too. Yuan Sho made Yuan Shu his vassel and freed his vassals as a result. So I took my chance I made Liu Bio my vassal as well (threatened war if he didnt agree and he caved) as well as a small territory that was just easy fruit. With the wars open I reopened trade, that plus my food sales and vassal money and I finally feel like I am able to do things! Problem was I once again had no enemies, I was planning a long migration through my vassal to take on the han when Yaun Sho declared war on me to my relief and I raced north to conquer his lands! I have built up my territories and 3rd and fourth stack and am just gobbling up territories. When Im done Ill go for the empire. I just swear to god if Lui Bei makes him a vassal ill make its my life mission to burn his lands to the ground!

This post has been edited by Cause: 08 June 2019 - 09:17 PM

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Posted 12 June 2019 - 12:30 PM

Okay I'm starting to feel like I understand the game and know what I like and what I don't like.

Unit Recruitment: This is a mess. Recruitment is based solely on your generals class and there levels. This is annoying and yes, everyone has pretty much identical armies. Worst case of this of any TW game. Their are five units that can be recruited after certain reforms and two units (best in the game kind of units) that are recruitable after you become a king challenging for ownership of the throne. It just feels like there is lack of excitement in unlocking new units as you build up your territories, research new things etc.

Spying: This seems like massive change for the worse. You can recruit one spy at marquis, two as a duke and three as a king. Despatch them to another faction and have them spy for you. Most spy actions seem to low key to matter, or to predict the effects. Lower military supplies etc. You can open the gates of a settlement but no idea which settlement your guy would be in. Steal his military retinue but he could be on the other side of the map. This has replaced characters on the world map and I don't like it. Though its also nice not having to deal with endless sabotage/assassination spam too.

Diplomacy: Huge improvement. Selling food, buying food matters. Getting an idea of how much the other faction loves or hates an idea really helps too as you can adjust the negotiation accordingly. Though some things seem preset, a common acillery is worth +2 regardless if it would help the other faction or not. This allows the AI to sometimes be easily manipulated. The AI is also a bit smarted, smart alliances, making vassals of factions I'm about to detroy and placing them under their own protection. Its interesting stuff.

Generals: Its gotten too complicated. Generals have friendships and rivalaries with other generals. They have a satisfaction rating within your faction. They come in five classes. They have skillpoints to allocate. They have five pieces of equipment that they can use. They can be administrators or have court appointments or get sent on assigments. I like some of this but also cant be arsed with most of it. I don't want to spend five minutes deciding the best way to reallocate everyones swords when I unlock a new one. I would enjoy an auto option where the game at least auto assigns the best damaging weapons to generals. something to reduce the minutia.

Food: Great mechanic that's poorly explained. Cities have reserves, armies have supplies. When armies lose supplies they suffer attrition, when cities lose reserves the public order takes a huge hit. Although its not been hard to manage so far, excepting a few turns where I expanded too much too quickly after selling too much food, but almost all my cities nearly collapsed into anarchy until I got food positive again.

Combat: I don't know if its the units I'm using but he flanking bonus of cavalry seems to have gone to shit. The main line is hard to break. After driving off the archers I have my cavalry hit the spearline from behind and it often still somehow ends up as a stalemate between their front line and mine.
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Posted 14 June 2019 - 11:23 AM

I feel like I'm talking to myself. I might be

I'm starting to think that I may have preferred records mode, the generals are more annoying than anything else. I just want to recruit the army I want to recruit and fight like I want to fight. It drives me nuts that only strategists can recruit trebuchets for example.

The ability to dismiss a general and not pay his upkeep and then remuster him on the other side of the map in two turns is amazing and I wish I understood it better earlier in my campaign. It can take ten turns (in march stance) to cross my empire from one side to another, but I can dismiss an army and re-assemble it in about 2-3. Its like putting your army in stasis, the general and his retinue remain recruitable just as they were when you recalled them.

I take back my praise for the diplomacy, it has the one major flaw of ever TW game, though I guess in part its due to an attempt to keep the game challenging. The stronger you get the more the other factiosn despise you, however they don't seem to fear you as they should. I'm fighting/defending a war on three fronts. I'm at war with Liu Bei's Kingdom of Shu han (to the west and east) and the Kingdom of Wu to the south. So the kingdom of Shu Han decalred war on my vassel forcing me to defend him and all that kingdoms vassals then declared war on me too. I'm smacking the vassals around, like an adult picking on the child and id glady support their independence and offer them peace if I could. The thing is they hate me because I'm crushing their armies, and I cant support a vassals independence when I'm at war with the vassal, or its master? That seems like exactly the best time for me to be making such an offer. Instead it seems once your at wae with the vassal master you cant play clever politics. Thank Heaven I managed to help the Duchy of Zu Hong (Yan Sho) get independence before war broke out as his territories to the west of mine in the north are at least creating a one neutral firebreak.

Similarly the kingdom of Wu got opportunistic and so when I was only fighting on 2 fronts they opened the third. Luckily I had been preparing to go to war with them, rather than open up a two front war in the east and west so I had an elite army waiting down south. Too bad that plan didn't work out. So once they opened the third front I activated this army and began gobbling up territories on the south side of the Yanghtze river. I defeated Lady Wu and killed her, defeated another army that is now just a general running around unable to remuster because he is in my territory running from everything and then even killed Lady Wu's daughter and her full stack at unfavourable odds when she tried to take back my gains. So what bugs me is this, The kingdom of Wu seems to be realizing it made a mistake and is begging me for peace. but its begging me for peace by saying If I offer all the territories I took back to them and pay them some gold, and some ancillaries they wont attack me. I defeated their ruler, her daughter, three of their best armies and they are threatening If I don't stop murdering them they wont stop fighting me? Fear needs to be moddled into diplomacy. I should be able to force a peace onto them on my terms, not theres. Oh well, the eastern front (which is now just a pocket of resistance) is wrapped up Ill be sending my elite-hardened stacks south to help in their slaughter!

Trade is also borked! I think I noticed it back in TW Rome 2 but its definitely a problem in Total Warhammer as well, is that trade is so lucrative but it only exists with other factions. I have ten trade agreement slots but at the moment I can only use 5. I was forced into wars, or had to conquer my past trading partners and suddenly the trade vanishes? City X is still trding with City Y but because I own both I make less money? I should make more as I am not taxing both parties!!! I have two vassals, each of only one city each that I don't just confederate or conquer because I make more money trading with them than I would owning their settlements?


Also again a complaint about the minutia! Every five turns you unlock a reform, this is the new tech tree. I can currently unlock reforms that would reduce corruption by 5% increase commerce profit by 10%, industry profit by 10% or increase the money I make from the silk and spice trade by 40$ That's great. I need money and Ill take the one that makes me the most of it. Which one is it? Must I seriously get a calculator and go through every settlement I own and crunch the numbers? When I hover over something that says increase by 10% I should see in brackets the projected number! Similarly hnearly everything I can build does the same thing. Very few buildings just make money, most make money and a percentage bonus or just the percentage bonus. I have no idea what the real impact of building haf of these things are. I just demolished a building that increased my industry profits in a city that apparently makes no base industry income, so the building didn't do anything!

Id like to thank my vassel Liu Bio as the MVP, somehow this guy is tanking a 4th front against the kindom of Shu Han, and has been for multiple turns, despite the kingdom of Shu han operating a mob of 4 full stakcs that seem to travel together around the border of his territories they never seen to make any gains.
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#38 User is offline   Imperial Historian 

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 12:07 PM

I got bored with my cao cao campaign, and decided to restart on a higher difficulty level with liu bei as I have sort of figured out how to play ad was annoyed by all the things I'd done whilst not understanding the game properly!

Playing as liu bei has been pretty fun so far, he gets bonuses for the number of happy characters in his court, so I'm currently on a legendary general collection mission, trying to get as many people in my court as possible.

I'm also playing the vassal game, whereas before I was just conquering stuff which is making corruption much easier to deal with.

That said the two yuans are currently in the process of vassalising the entire map, so doing my best to put myself in a position to deal with that down the line! One annoyance is how easy it seems for the ai to vassalise people and keep them in line, but maybe that's something I'll figure out down the line...

re fear in diplomacy, I think the military strength calculation is a bit messed up, it seems to count the military strength of everyone your faction is fighting so with the han and dong min in the calculation, the ai always thinks it's in a better position than it actually is!
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#39 User is offline   Cause 

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 01:47 PM

View PostImperial Historian, on 14 June 2019 - 12:07 PM, said:

I got bored with my cao cao campaign, and decided to restart on a higher difficulty level with liu bei as I have sort of figured out how to play ad was annoyed by all the things I'd done whilst not understanding the game properly!


The game does a terrible job of teaching you how to play. I'm starting to get bored but I want to finish! I also wish I could have a few memorable fights. So far this has been more a game of the campaign map then the battle map.

In fact if I'm honest, My battle against Lady Wu's daughter was predicted to be my loss, so I fought it on the battle map and won and I won easily but in honesty the battle was a travesty. He reinforcements flanked my battle line and I somehow still won. No idea what the hell happened actually.

View PostImperial Historian, on 14 June 2019 - 12:07 PM, said:

Playing as liu bei has been pretty fun so far, he gets bonuses for the number of happy characters in his court, so I'm currently on a legendary general collection mission, trying to get as many people in my court as possible.

I'm also playing the vassal game, whereas before I was just conquering stuff which is making corruption much easier to deal with.

That said the two yuans are currently in the process of vassalising the entire map, so doing my best to put myself in a position to deal with that down the line! One annoyance is how easy it seems for the ai to vassalise people and keep them in line, but maybe that's something I'll figure out down the line...

re fear in diplomacy, I think the military strength calculation is a bit messed up, it seems to count the military strength of everyone your faction is fighting so with the han and dong min in the calculation, the ai always thinks it's in a better position than it actually is!


Yip the rules governing vassalship are opaque to me, people who outright refuse me. There very powerfull neighbor will when I end my turn suddenly agree to be the vassal of some third power across the map. No idea how this is all decided
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Posted 19 June 2019 - 09:51 AM

Okay I just continue to learn important things way too late in the game:

I discovered you can pay extra and skip the time it takes to build a structure. If a building is 5k gold but takes 7 turns to build you can just spend 10k and have it built immediately. I also discovered corruption was stealing approx. 60% of my income and was the reason I was broke! So I built a few corruption busting builidings and also discovered that copper mines (minting coins?) help fight corruption faction wide, so I made attacking them a priority. I know have double the armies I had before and yet I also have 20k or more gold a turn for building upgrades.

I also discoved I need to be more strategic with what buildings I build where and this also helped my finances. Early game I just wasn't that interested in spending so long figuring out what buildings synergize best with what buildings.


I'm finally getting some good battles!:

Defending a resource county against two full stacks using only its garrison and a small army of a general and four units was epic.

Using night battles to engage three elite full stacks one by one and going through them each like a hot knife through butter.

Killing an elite stack of a minor enemy vassal, was seemingly a cool army with 3 unique/legendary generals and a full stack of some good troops but they were low on cavalry. My own army was one of my best. When the dust settled I lost 90 men and killed their entire army to a man.

I also had a heroic defeat (battle was unwinnable! I tried three times), I got caught with my pants down and only had a weekened city garrison with a new mustering army inside, so every units was at less than half strength and they came at me with two full stacks. Still I managed to do enough damage that on my next turn I had my reinforcements march into the settlement and put the victors to the sword

Diplomacy continues to annoy me in the late game:

I have to bribe people to want to trade with me. Trade agreements shoudlnt be something the AI despises, they should count against you in diplomacy they should be seen as carrots. I can make you 3k gold a turn if you would just stop being my enemy and become my trading partner. Why wont you agree?

China will be united:

Its late end game now and I am just mopping up. I own the entire north east, the east coast and the south east. I'm wrapping up the north west now. I paid an ungodly amount of money to the Kingdom of Wu in the south to get a peace agreement because killing three of their stacks every few turns was becoming annoying. This way I can focus my rage on the kingdom of Shu han in the west, which is now the smaller of the two enemy kingdoms and I think will be the easir nut to crack. Once I have dealt with them I will conquer the rest with a smaller border to defend.

I also think my game is buggy. It says I have 68 territories but I have 68 territories before I conquered the south. I still have 68. I don't think its counting right. 90 territories should be a win.
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