Malazan Empire: Sekiro - Shadows Die Twice - Malazan Empire

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Sekiro - Shadows Die Twice

#21 User is offline   Silencer 

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 07:20 AM

View PostTraveller, on 23 March 2019 - 07:04 AM, said:

Beautiful game so far.

I've only really done the intro, but it's a lot more beginner-friendly than previous soulsborne games. It lets you pause, and there's a sort of undead guy that lets you practice attacks and defence with to get timings right.

Which is absolutely essential in this game. The parry move from Souls is now a major aspect - instead of Stamina, we have Posture, with its own bar. Keep hitting or countering to break posture, then you get a chance to one-hit kill. It feels really different from the old slash and block, with balance and timing being key.

Not so much whittling down health, as knocking out of balance, and then finishing. So the tougher bad guys I've met have more than one health bar; you have to do two killing moves on them. And this is just the intro.

I just spent some time in the first area getting the timing right, as I was waiting too late to block and getting hit, and once you're hit you lose Posture and are open to a death blow (you can roll out of the way to regain it.) The window for the parry is actually bigger than in Souls but you have to do it earlier. Anyway, its kind of vital.

From what I've been doing though, you can outright avoid enemies with stealth. You can take to the rooftops, kill from above, then hook-shot back up and hide. You can ledge hang, hide in grass, and creep past dogs and guards. And you can't grind souls for power, as there aren't any, so you dont feel obliged to kill everyone to level up. So I've been practising the hit and run. It's all so smooth.. and the scenery is amazing. DS and Bloodborne look good but it's all grim stuff. This landscape is something else.

It's so odd to have an actual character that talks and interacts, and a full story instead of the broken hidden lore of Souls. Got the kids all day today but looking forward to playing again later.


Dammit, Trav, I'm trying not to impulse buy this!
I mean, I love me some Souls games and this is right up my alley (though I still have more Nioh to play, which did a great job of being similar-yet-different to the Souls games and set in Japan) but I don't usually rush out to buy them. But everything you just wrote makes me want this RIGHT NOW. XD
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<Vote Silencer> For not garnering any heat or any love for that matter. And I'm being serious here, it's like a mental block that is there, and you just keep forgetting it.

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#22 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 23 March 2019 - 08:00 AM

If you can't grind souls then how does levelling up work? You don't get xp from enemies? Does it use quest xp or what?
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Posted 23 March 2019 - 08:22 AM

It's a complete overhaul. I'm only just getting to grips with it. You keep your sword, Kusabimaru, throughout the game. So no weapon levelling. Your prosthetic arm can hold 3 upgrades at a time - Mine currently has the grapple and a shuriken thrower. This is what you alter to deal with different enemies.

You don't level up and add souls to stats or anything. From what I can see, when you defeat certain bosses, you gain Battle Memories, which you take to an idol (bonfire) to gain strength. I think this is why people are saying it's upped the difficulty.

I'm assuming bosses and the different enemies are beaten solely through which tools you use and the technique you use rather than how much you poured into strength or dex or whatever.

There's also a skill tree I haven't dabbled in yet as it's too early - but these can either add to your Shinobi skills, or your weapon arm.

I also haven't messed with the resurrection thing. When you die, you can either go back to your last idol or choose to come back to life. There's a cost though - the more you use this, some sort of decay begins to enter the world, resulting in NPCs getting sick. This hasn't been explained in game yet as I'm not that far but I'll get back on that.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 23 March 2019 - 08:29 AM

So that's the story. And what was the real lesson? Don't leave things in the fridge.
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Posted 23 March 2019 - 08:51 AM

What do you use to upgrade the skill tree if there's no souls?

Do you find items? Like a Metroidvania?
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Posted 23 March 2019 - 09:07 AM

You gain skill points by gaining experience from defeating enemies. You lose half of your experience when you die, but once you fill the bar and gain a skill point you get to keep it. Then you can go to the skill tree.

Also, just realised... no multiplayer help, so if there's a tricky boss - no summoning option.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 23 March 2019 - 09:12 AM

So that's the story. And what was the real lesson? Don't leave things in the fridge.
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Posted 23 March 2019 - 09:49 AM

Hmm. That actually sounds more lenient than the souls games.
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Posted 23 March 2019 - 09:50 AM

This game is very different. Kind of like Bloodborne, but also not at all.
Take good care to keep relations civil
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To speak friendly, Even to the devil
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Posted 23 March 2019 - 10:10 AM

It definitely encourages pressing an attack like Bloodborne - if you step back their posture bar refills.
So that's the story. And what was the real lesson? Don't leave things in the fridge.
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Posted 24 March 2019 - 12:33 AM

I just met my first mini boss. He has a grab that one-shot kills - and after dying 3 times I find out that the more I die, the more npcs are getting a terminal cough called dragon rot. The girl at the temple seems to think there's a cure somewhere though.

Took out the camp just before it using stealth, finding secret paths and creeping about, often ending up behind enemies that were lying in wait.

Also ventured into the past to get an upgrade - bit like the Painted World I guess. Creeping and hook-shotting through the streets is so smooth. I really like the way that when you drop from a height, you never make a sound.

BK don't forget to return to the practice guy at the temple when you learn new moves, he adds them to the training.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 24 March 2019 - 12:51 AM

So that's the story. And what was the real lesson? Don't leave things in the fridge.
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Posted 24 March 2019 - 01:44 AM

View PostTraveller, on 24 March 2019 - 12:33 AM, said:

I just met my first mini boss. He has a grab that one-shot kills - and after dying 3 times I find out that the more I die, the more npcs are getting a terminal cough called dragon rot. The girl at the temple seems to think there's a cure somewhere though.

Took out the camp just before it using stealth, finding secret paths and creeping about, often ending up behind enemies that were lying in wait.

Also ventured into the past to get an upgrade - bit like the Painted World I guess. Creeping and hook-shotting through the streets is so smooth. I really like the way that when you drop from a height, you never make a sound.

BK don't forget to return to the practice guy at the temple when you learn new moves, he adds them to the training.


I also caved and just got up to the Chained Ogre. Haven't actually manged to beat him yet but that grab is the only attack you actually need to dodge. The rest is blockable. Also, make sure you use your grapple to get out of the fight every now and then. Great for a breather and to use healing items.
This game plays very differently to Soulsborne, in the tactics sense. Emphasis on blocking/parrying and attacking instead of just dodging, no stamina so dodge is unlimited, and you're encouraged to avoid fights by being a goddamn ninja. Oh and an actual jump, lol. It's pretty neat so far and it definitely feels more like Nioh than the previous Souls titles, imo. Especially with no ability to recover your lost XP on death. Clearly the point of this one is NOT to die, given the whole Dragonrot thing and whatnot. It's so nice to have a decent ninja game though. Stealth and backstabs and gadgets and such nice combat mechanics.
No regrets.
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Shinrei said:

<Vote Silencer> For not garnering any heat or any love for that matter. And I'm being serious here, it's like a mental block that is there, and you just keep forgetting it.

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 03:55 AM

View PostBriar King, on 24 March 2019 - 03:28 AM, said:

Getting spanked by a General guy by a trebuchet after 3 dogs. Can’t get the 1st deathblow let alone the 2nd lol. I have just chosen death 4 times in a row cause I don’t really know what’s going on yet between the 2 options but I’d think I need to be closer to defeating him before I choose other option? I just woke back up at temple on this latest death and now ole dude has dragon rot which idk what that really is even after txt.


It's a consequence for dying too much. Not sure what the long term effect is though. The more you die the more people around you get the rot and the worse it gets.

As for the General you are stuck on.

Don't go right at him go up and around to the left. There is a gate behind him you can get to. Make your first attack a jump down and you will get a free deathblow. Then follow up with regular fighting.
Remember to attack him quickly when he starts glowing white because he will restore posture otherwise.
Keep your distance and the unblockable attacks won't be an issue. Your best bet for wearing down his posture is attacking as he has way more of it than you.
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Shinrei said:

<Vote Silencer> For not garnering any heat or any love for that matter. And I'm being serious here, it's like a mental block that is there, and you just keep forgetting it.

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 07:38 AM

I went right around the General, you can just sneak by him to the left. I'll go back for him later. I crept through that next area carefully, ledge hangs are awesome for sneaking. Dropped down right behind that hammer guy, backstabbed him - he never even saw me! Get the bell from the woman in the house there, you need it for the flame upgrade.

You can then find a path down the cliffs to the left of the gate - there's a guy up on the wall with a rocket, I got up behind him too.

I didn't beat the Ogre yet, but I did realise that if you kill enough people, you get more resurrection nodes (bottom left) which means you can revive more than once during the fight. So before I fight him again I'll go back a bit and clear out a few guards to build those up.

That experience meter means no grinding; if you die just before you get a skill point, you lose it for good. Last night I was killing just to get that last bit to bank another skill point.

I like the way the grapple works - the way the branches and hook points are laid out in certain areas means you have to jump off and grapple when the next point is in range. No more falling off big trees, take that DS. Also I got swarmed at one point and basically hit the grapple button without a target in mind, and I went straight up like Batman.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 24 March 2019 - 07:44 AM

So that's the story. And what was the real lesson? Don't leave things in the fridge.
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#33 User is offline   Traveller 

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 05:53 PM

I missed her first go as I went the hidden way. She's up on the first floor; her son is on the path towards the gate.

Take the bell back to the temple, there's an idol near the sculptor you can activate for a trip... elsewhere.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 24 March 2019 - 06:07 PM

So that's the story. And what was the real lesson? Don't leave things in the fridge.
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#34 User is offline   Traveller 

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 10:27 PM

Anyone bought any skills yet? I have 3 points but with the tree blanked out im undecided which starter to take.

Beat the Ogre so just exploring the new area. Got a gourd upgrade, also, got some blood samples from the coughing afflicted. Took it to Emma, I think there's a cure for dragon rot.

Just took out a guard, and as I paused over the body, a few red maple leaves drifted down form the tree with the snow.

Just awesome visually.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 24 March 2019 - 11:04 PM

So that's the story. And what was the real lesson? Don't leave things in the fridge.
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#35 User is offline   Traveller 

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Posted 24 March 2019 - 11:24 PM

I don't think I can block mid-air.

I'm going for the Mikiri Counter, looks more use to me than whirlwind.

Still learning moves. Running up and attacking gives you a swift strike. Also, the side-step (O on PS4) isn't just a one press, if you hold it you really dash out of the way. Useful for dodging the Ogre grabs - he kept getting me until I figured that out.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 24 March 2019 - 11:25 PM

So that's the story. And what was the real lesson? Don't leave things in the fridge.
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Posted 25 March 2019 - 02:13 AM

View PostTraveller, on 24 March 2019 - 11:24 PM, said:

I don't think I can block mid-air.

I'm going for the Mikiri Counter, looks more use to me than whirlwind.

Still learning moves. Running up and attacking gives you a swift strike. Also, the side-step (O on PS4) isn't just a one press, if you hold it you really dash out of the way. Useful for dodging the Ogre grabs - he kept getting me until I figured that out.


Oooh, that could be very helpful.
I do feel like the tutorial space didn't really go deep enough into the controls. There is a lot that is left to trial and error, and by that I mean more than there should be.
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Shinrei said:

<Vote Silencer> For not garnering any heat or any love for that matter. And I'm being serious here, it's like a mental block that is there, and you just keep forgetting it.

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#37 User is offline   Traveller 

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 06:31 AM

It's really nailed the shinobi aspect. That memory area is a great example, where the game lets you sneak and vanish, or dive in and take down enemies with a flourish.

The poise/balance thing is genius, so much more subtle than the stamina bar, and the additional skills are just going to add to it, I can't wait to try some more.

The training is good, I've returned to it several times as a warm up when I start playing. But timing is essential, and it doesn't always show how long to hit a button for, or when. That triple block is an example, you have to hit block 3 times and counter; against real enemies its tricky, but when you do it fast enough it's awesome, you don't get a scratch.

And dodging grabs with the Ogre was getting annoying as I'd hit the button, sidestep, and he'd get me anyway - he has a wide reach. Only when I held it down for a sort of running strafe did it click.

It's certainly more beginner friendly - but watch out for that ogre.

Edit.. went back to the Estate, and totally cleared it. Now got 3rd prosthetic weapon, an axe - once you have 3 you unlock a whole new skill tree just for upgrading prosthetics. That whole area is great for getting money and exp points.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 25 March 2019 - 02:22 PM

So that's the story. And what was the real lesson? Don't leave things in the fridge.
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#38 User is offline   Traveller 

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 06:37 AM

The axe is great for the shield guys up the steps from the door you opened - you can just smash n stab. I've messed about up there, but decided that it might be a bit early to take on at this stage.

On my first visit to the campfire I did the ledge hang all the way round to the right, then dropped down into the alley. Then ran at the fire, grabbed the upgrade, and ran off.

I went back later after ogre fight and cleared them out one by one. Shuriken the dogs. And don't forget you can lure the guards with ceramic shards. Opening the shortcut was a proper DS moment.

I made it through the ravine, past a
Spoiler


But I'd missed a mini boss, a General surrounded by guards who I'm trying to beat now. The mikiri is meant for the thrust attacks, which he telegraphs, but he also does a sweep and I keep getting caught out.

Overall although it's a very different game to the Souls series, there are still enough details to remind you how it's developed. The way a mini boss will chase you, but stump back to his original place if you go to far, really reminded me of the red eye guys from Demons.

It's like a really refined version of Souls and Bloodborne - with an actual story and characters added, not to mention so many combat moves that DS is going to seem positively primitive after this.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 26 March 2019 - 08:01 AM

So that's the story. And what was the real lesson? Don't leave things in the fridge.
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#39 User is offline   Traveller 

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 09:52 PM

I'm still trying to beat this general. I have to kill five or six guards first - to go head to head with him in a fight that takes about 1 minute for me to fuck up somehow. I so nearly got his poise to break, but he always seems to hit me before I get him.

It's a real test of the skills you've learned - dodge, block, attack. Combination of frustrating and admiration.
I'll feel better about it when he's dead though.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 26 March 2019 - 10:04 PM

So that's the story. And what was the real lesson? Don't leave things in the fridge.
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#40 User is offline   Traveller 

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 10:35 PM

You need to either be standing still, or push up on L stick; going towards enemy will work, but if you're moving sideways it doesn't. It will only work against thrust attacks; and hitting o at the right moment will stomp his blade down.

I just beat the General guy. I had to remember that blocking well also throws their posture as well as just attacking, so I blocked, attacked, blocked, attacked, and his posture bar went up and up. I finished him with a flourish on the edge of the ravine - it was a pretty close thing. (Check out my health!)

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This post has been edited by Traveller: 26 March 2019 - 10:41 PM

So that's the story. And what was the real lesson? Don't leave things in the fridge.
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