[troutmask]

Hi Malazan experts,

I'm finished Midnight Tides and wanting to clarify some things before I start The Bonuhunters.

• (Chapter 13) Trull and Fear are discussing Rhulad and the future of the Tiste Edur. Fear tells Trull not to fight Rhulad's emperorship, to which Trull replies that the same force that manipulated Rhulad has been manipulated the Tiste Edur as a whole. They discuss how the Tiste Edur used to rule the realm, but fought the gods and lost due to betrayal. Trull says "I seem to recall you shared our mother's doubts", but Fear says he was mistaken. In this context, are Trull and Fear discussing the aftermath of the downfall of Scabandari Bloodeye that they witnessed in the Stone Bowl? And does Uruth "doubt" by believing that Scabandari was killed by Mael and Kilmandaros rather than by Silchas Ruin as is the common tale amongst the Edur? Why would Fear doubt what Uruth believes?
• (Chapter 13) Udinaas and Virrick discuss the Edur in a passage to the kitchens within the main building of the Hiroth. Udinaas tells Virrick that the Edur have reason to fear, while the Letherii slaves do not. Virrick likes this concept and says "Feather Witch has failed us". Was Feather Witch's failure something to do with the tile casting she did in front of the other slaves? Why was Feather Witch crying in front of Mayen and Rhulad anyway? Was it because Mayen becoming the empress upset Feather Witch? I'm also confused about why Mayen is beating Feather Witch in the first place...
• (Chapter 15) Hanradi Khalag informs Trull that the Jheck, led by B'nagga, have arrived in the Edur camp. Trull replies "this does not interest me, Chief. They have been as sorely used as we have, and that use is far from over". By 'sorely used' does Trull just mean that the Jheck have marched a long way to join the Edur? Or does Trull already suspect that the Jheck are being used by the Crippled God just like the Edur are?
• (Chapter 16) Feather Witch and Udinaas awaken from their dream involving the Meckros, T'lan Imass, Udinaas' son, etc. and Udinaas notices the Edur army is on the move. He tells Feather Witch that they must return. Feather Witch asks what they are returning to, Udinaas says what they were before, Feather Witch says slaves, Udinaas says yes. Feather Witch then says "I've tasted it now. I've tasted it". Feather Witch then tells Udinaas that he cannot live like this. Is Feather Witch saying that she tasted freedom within their shared dream?
• (Chapter 17) Tehol and Bugg are on the roof of Tehol's residence and Tehol stops Bugg from crushing Ezgara the insect. Tehol tells Bugg that he startled Ezgara, Bugg asks how Tehol can tell, and Tehol says "well, it's reversed direction, hasn't it? That must be startling, I would imagine". I always read Bugg and Tehol's dialogue several times since they are witty and full of humor, however I don't get what's going on here...Bugg startled Ezgara, causing it to reverse direction. Does Tehol then use the fact that Ezgara reversed direction to indicate that it must have startled itself? Is Tehol just making a comment about the insect being two headed or something?
• (Chapter 17) Tehol and Bugg are talking and Bugg says he has caught a chill from the Fifth Wing and that his construction company has successfully shored up the foundations of the Fifth Wing. Tehol is impressed and calls it extraordinary, to which Bugg replies "it is, isn't it? in any case, it's chilly in those tunnels...now". Tehol says "dare I ask?" and Bugg says "best not, Master". Is Bugg already storing the Jaghut that he met in the quarry down in the tunnels in anticipation of the Edur's assault on Letheras? And this caused the tunnels to become chilly?
• (Chapter 17) Shurq comes to the Azath Tower because Kettle has said the dead were gathering. What is causing the dead to gather around the Azath Tower? From my understanding, the Azath Tower has died and is turning into the Hold of the Dead...is it simply that the dead in Letheras are attracted to this Hold? Also, are these dead people the ones who were formerly held within the Azath Tower? How are these dead/spirits/ghosts different from Shurq and Kettle themselves?
• (Chapter 17) Kettle notices the beating in her chest has quickened and it is described as quickening by five, six eights a day, now. Is this a typo? Or does Kettle's heart beat eight times in a row, and this event occurs five or six times per day?
• (Chapter 19) Seren reflects upon the Letherii history and how historical evils have been ignored. They conquer in the name of liberation, then quickly impose their own rules of oppression. Erikson writes "there was, after all, but one road to success and fulfillment, gold-cobbled and maintained by the Letherii toll-collectors, and only the free could walk it". Seren then thinks "free to profit from the same game. Free to discover one's own inherent disadvantages. Free to be abused. Free to be exploited. Free to be owned in lieu of debt. Free to be raped". In the second statement, is Seren basically thinking that the true "freedoms" that most Letherii citizens have are not really freedoms at all? And the road to success and fulfillment upon which average Letherii citizens walk is actually chalk full of terrible "freedoms"?
• (Chapter 20) Tehol tells Bugg that it is time to get Shand, Jehun and Rissarh on their way and that they will not complain about it because the non-Letherii remaining in the city are being subjected to harassment by the authorities, who are demonstrating their racism by being suspicious and treading over the non-Letherii's hard-won rights.Bugg replies "proof that the freedoms once accorded non-Letherii peoples were born of both paternalism and a self serving posturing as a benign overseer. What is given is taken away, just like that". This statement confused me a lot...isn't paternalism about restricting freedoms? Who is the benign overseer and what posturing are they doing?

These are my last 10 sticking points from Midnight Tides and I have poured over the text a lot to try and answer them myself...thank you so much in advance for helping me with them!

This post has been edited by troutmask: 30 August 2018 - 12:33 AM

[D'rek]

3 - I would say the latter, that just like the Edur the Jheck are fighting in a war for the Crippled God, not for their own benefit/goals

4 - I'd say a bit of freedom, and a bit of *power*. Feather Witch doesn't want to keep pretending she is just a slave now that her power has awakened, she wants to use them.

5 - Take it how you wish. Maybe he is just being witty about a bug. Maybe it's a clever subtextual commentary on the state of the kingdom.

6 - He's not storing a Jaghut, he's storing the demon that the Jaghut (Huntress) froze. Bugg the Ascendant needed to keep the frozen demon locked away somewhere. Bugg the Contractor had a problem with the foundations of the Fifth Wing being too wet and unstable. So he hid the frozen demon somewhere in/near the Fifth Wing where it won't be found, and the cold from the Jaghut ice solidifies the foundation. Win-win.

7 - In general, it seems there are many sorts of dead forms in Lether but all of them suffer from lingering around in some way or another due to there being no Hold or Warren of Death in Lether to take them in. I don't think it is any specific subset of dead necessarily that had gathered around the dead Azath tower, and it definitely wasn't all the dead in Lether. But something death-related is indeed certainly happening there that has attracted their attention, and that is the speculation of some characters that perhaps it is trying to form a Hold of Death. But then again maybe not.

8 - I think Kettle just doesn't know the words for numbers in the forties.

9 - Yes. Conquest, genocide, eradication, brutality, etc, are not justified simply by labelling every vice and virtue of one's own society as "freedom".

10 - The "benign overseer" is the collective Letherii state and people. After, say, the Farad were conquered the Letheri leadership/people then "benevolently" granted them "freedoms" to be ordinary citizens within the empire (I don't know that that's actually the case, there may still have been special burdens on them or other minority groups), and the Letheri portrayed this to themselves and to the conquered as "look how benevolent and gracious we are". The Letheri weren't genuinely benevolent or compassionate, it was all just serving their own egos, just posturing. Now when the crisis comes the freedoms are taken right back, because despite their posturing the Letheri never truly believed the ideals of liberty and equality that they pretended to follow.

[troutmask]

Thank you so much, your reply was fantastic.
For #4, when did Feather Witch's powers awaken? What were these reawakened powers? I reread the previous passage where Udinaas and Feather Witch travel to the Starvald Demelain hold/Meckross/Imass dreamworld and talk with Rud and Ulshun, but it doesn't seem like Feather Witch gained any additional powers.
For #6, was it just this Jaghut huntress who froze the Edur sea-demon that the Ceda lured beneath Settle Lake in the final chapter? And presumably the demon frozen beneath the Fifth Wing was left in place underneath the Eternal Domicile?

This post has been edited by troutmask: 30 August 2018 - 06:03 AM

[Abyss]

troutmask, on 30 August 2018 - 06:02 AM, said:

Thank you so much, your reply was fantastic.
For #4, when did Feather Witch's powers awaken? What were these reawakened powers? I reread the previous passage where Udinaas and Feather Witch travel to the Starvald Demelain hold/Meckross/Imass dreamworld and talk with Rud and Ulshun, but it doesn't seem like Feather Witch gained any additional powers.
For #6, was it just this Jaghut huntress who froze the Edur sea-demon that the Ceda lured beneath Settle Lake in the final chapter? And presumably the demon frozen beneath the Fifth Wing was left in place underneath the Eternal Domicile?

#4 not so much additional power as a grasp of additional possibilities within the powers she had, an an awareness of Udinass' posibilites too.

#6 i vaguely recall Mael/Bugg was involved, but might be misremembering, and presumably yes.

[D'rek]

Abyss, on 30 August 2018 - 04:55 PM, said:

troutmask, on 30 August 2018 - 06:02 AM, said:

Thank you so much, your reply was fantastic.
For #4, when did Feather Witch's powers awaken? What were these reawakened powers? I reread the previous passage where Udinaas and Feather Witch travel to the Starvald Demelain hold/Meckross/Imass dreamworld and talk with Rud and Ulshun, but it doesn't seem like Feather Witch gained any additional powers.
For #6, was it just this Jaghut huntress who froze the Edur sea-demon that the Ceda lured beneath Settle Lake in the final chapter? And presumably the demon frozen beneath the Fifth Wing was left in place underneath the Eternal Domicile?

#4 not so much additional power as a grasp of additional possibilities within the powers she had, an an awareness of Udinass' posibilites too.

#6 i vaguely recall Mael/Bugg was involved, but might be misremembering, and presumably yes.

6 - I think Bugg was the go-between between the Ceda and Huntress. When Mossag's sea monster is in the trap, the Ceda says "Now, friend Bugg" and then Bugg asks Huntress to summon the ice.

Also, yes, Mayen was beating Feather Witch. Why? Probably just because she's a terrible person. Part or all of why Feather Witch was crying might be because with Mayen becoming Empress there would be no one to hold back Mayen's cruelty to FW.

[marilynmoss]

i don't know