[Morgoth]

Tapper, on 10 July 2018 - 09:51 AM, said:

The thing that confuses me, is the Strategy pick.

Quote

So I'll randomize the signup list, and that will be our "around the table order" that's used for strategy card selection throughout the game.

How I read this, is that Khell is Speaker round 1, but then regardless of who sits next to him, when Khell is Speaker, Bliss will always pick second, D'rek third, IH fourth, and so on - is that correct?
That will mean that the advantage of your left-sided neighbour always picking later than you is gone. I guess it prevents deals like Gnaw, Morghy and I made last game, but in hindsight I think that annoyed others more than it benefitted us (Tatts was the one who had the best of the deal) .

I doubt that's right. That would give Khell an absurd advantage for the entire game. Pick race first. Pick position first. Start placing tiles first. Pick strategy card first.

[Tapper]

Tattersail_, on 10 July 2018 - 09:57 AM, said:

[

Regarding the underlined, if I have a hex with a number on, will that only be able to be put in that number? I was of the opinion that you just say which hex you want to place ie place hex 35 in spot 40.

The bolded is correct.

Regarding Politics: you still select who will be Speaker. It's just that the people who profit/suffer from it, might not be your neighbours.

[Tapper]

Morgoth, on 10 July 2018 - 09:59 AM, said:

Tapper, on 10 July 2018 - 09:51 AM, said:

The thing that confuses me, is the Strategy pick.

Quote

So I'll randomize the signup list, and that will be our "around the table order" that's used for strategy card selection throughout the game.

How I read this, is that Khell is Speaker round 1, but then regardless of who sits next to him, when Khell is Speaker, Bliss will always pick second, D'rek third, IH fourth, and so on - is that correct?
That will mean that the advantage of your left-sided neighbour always picking later than you is gone. I guess it prevents deals like Gnaw, Morghy and I made last game, but in hindsight I think that annoyed others more than it benefitted us (Tatts was the one who had the best of the deal) .

I doubt that's right. That would give Khell an absurd advantage for the entire game. Pick race first. Pick position first. Start placing tiles first. Pick strategy card first.

I agree on that. I am not saying it is what Blend meant, but if I read the post Blend made, the initial player randomization is used for the pre-game part (race selection, hex placement, home system placement) and throughout the game, also as the sitting order for strategy card selection (so Twelve will be to my right, Khell to my left, regardless of where their homeworlds are located).

Quote

I figure the way we'll do race choices is by initiative order. So I'll randomize the signup list, and that will be our "around the table order" that's used for strategy card selection throughout the game.

Then, the first person in that order will get to choose their race and starting position on the map. Then the next person will get to do so, and so on and so forth.

We will then build the map. I have, at home, a map with all NUMBERED blank hexes (except Mecatol and Mallice) on which we will build. Each player will receive a link to a Google Drive folder with the hexes assigned to them (most have 5, 3 people will have 6) and will take turns placing hexes by following the numbers (i.e. first person will put a hex on 1, second on 2, and so on and so forth). Hex placement will be done in the above order, but the way it works is that we go from player 1 to player 9, then we go from player 9 to player 1, then back again. (Hope that makes sense).

I'm gonna try to get the basics of the game and chatty threads up, or mostly up, today so that we can get started on that admin stuff tonight, and hopefully have a map built and ready to go for a Monday start!

[Khellendros]

Morgoth, on 10 July 2018 - 09:59 AM, said:

Tapper, on 10 July 2018 - 09:51 AM, said:

The thing that confuses me, is the Strategy pick.

Quote

So I'll randomize the signup list, and that will be our "around the table order" that's used for strategy card selection throughout the game.

How I read this, is that Khell is Speaker round 1, but then regardless of who sits next to him, when Khell is Speaker, Bliss will always pick second, D'rek third, IH fourth, and so on - is that correct?
That will mean that the advantage of your left-sided neighbour always picking later than you is gone. I guess it prevents deals like Gnaw, Morghy and I made last game, but in hindsight I think that annoyed others more than it benefitted us (Tatts was the one who had the best of the deal) .

I doubt that's right. That would give Khell an absurd advantage for the entire game. Pick race first. Pick position first. Start placing tiles first. Pick strategy card first.

But any advantage is nullified by the fact that it's me who has the ostensible advantage.

[Morgoth]

Khellendros, on 10 July 2018 - 10:19 AM, said:

Morgoth, on 10 July 2018 - 09:59 AM, said:

Tapper, on 10 July 2018 - 09:51 AM, said:

The thing that confuses me, is the Strategy pick.

Quote

So I'll randomize the signup list, and that will be our "around the table order" that's used for strategy card selection throughout the game.

How I read this, is that Khell is Speaker round 1, but then regardless of who sits next to him, when Khell is Speaker, Bliss will always pick second, D'rek third, IH fourth, and so on - is that correct?
That will mean that the advantage of your left-sided neighbour always picking later than you is gone. I guess it prevents deals like Gnaw, Morghy and I made last game, but in hindsight I think that annoyed others more than it benefitted us (Tatts was the one who had the best of the deal) .

I doubt that's right. That would give Khell an absurd advantage for the entire game. Pick race first. Pick position first. Start placing tiles first. Pick strategy card first.

But any advantage is nullified by the fact that it's me who has the ostensible advantage.

That's an excellent point!

[Morgoth]

IH, there's nothing to do at work. Entertain me!!

[Tattersail_]

He may not know it is his turn. I'll drop him a DM.

[D'rek]

Tapper, on 10 July 2018 - 09:51 AM, said:

Morgoth, on 10 July 2018 - 06:51 AM, said:

So, how does this work exactly? We build a map and then we pick starting positions, yes? Who gets to pick position first, Khell or whomever is at the bottom?

AFAIK, starting position was supposed to happen at the same time as picking race, meaning Khell would pick first on that, too.
Picking before the map is build means the first few get to select if they want their home system to border 2 or 3 hexes, for the next few it means being able to select their neighbours, and for the last few, it means being locked into whichever spot is left, but at the least being able to select a race that fits the neighbours.
I personally think that's a better proposition than Khell picking race first and starting position in the galaxy after the map is built (especially given the fact we don't place hexes wherever we want, but on certain numbers only, meaning we're likely to see a uneven galaxy), but let's go with what Blend wants.


The thing that confuses me, is the Strategy pick.

Quote

So I'll randomize the signup list, and that will be our "around the table order" that's used for strategy card selection throughout the game.

How I read this, is that Khell is Speaker round 1, but then regardless of who sits next to him, when Khell is Speaker, Bliss will always pick second, D'rek third, IH fourth, and so on - is that correct?
That will mean that the advantage of your left-sided neighbour always picking later than you is gone. I guess it prevents deals like Gnaw, Morghy and I made last game, but in hindsight I think that annoyed others more than it benefitted us (Tatts was the one who had the best of the deal) .

That's how I read/interpreted it, too.

1. Khell picks a race and HW spot
2. Bliss picks a race and HW spot
3. D'rek picks a race and HW spot
etc...


then

1. Khell places a hex from his hand in spot #1
2. Bliss places a hex from her hand in spot #2
etc... (it goes up then back down the list, Catan-style)
Twelve - 8
Tapper - 9
Tapper - 10
Twelve - 11
Tatts - 12
etc...

and then Khell is Speaker, and either we just go clockwise from him for Strategy Card selection, or else we follow the player order for SC selection in the first round only.



For Khell, it's a big advantage of getting to choose whatever race he wants and getting first dibs at HW pick, and also knowing he starts as Speaker while picking those. Plus because he is at one end of the list he gets adjacent hex placements, which wins up being really good for him. So he picked homeworld spot B, where he gets to place both #19 and #37 right next to himself (no one else will get such a thing, though Bliss, Twelve and Tapper have something very similar at A, E, and F, respectively, though in Twelve and Tapper's cases these could be counter-picked by someone else before they get to).

For players in the middle of the list, in theory there's a decent advantage of being able to pick a race and a homeworld position where you already know who your neighbours will be - e.g. picking Nekro and putting yourself right next to Jol-Nar, or picking Arborec and placing yourself between two non-aggressive races. But this advantage can get trounced by their only being a few homeworld positions that let you place at least one adjacent tile. E.g., when Gnaw is picking it might be really advantageous to place himself at HW C to be between Saar and whomever is at D... but I doubt he'd want to risk that since he doesn't get to place any hexes anywhere near there and could get nothing but crap hexes placed around him.

[Morgoth]

Which is why my suggestion would be for everyone to chose starting hex after we've all placed our hexes, and for Tapper to pick first. That should even things out nicely I think, and have been the way we've always built the galaxy in TI3 (though it's possible it's a house rule, I learned how to play the game from the guy who owns it in our group).

[D'rek]

Morgoth, on 10 July 2018 - 12:23 PM, said:

Which is why my suggestion would be for everyone to chose starting hex after we've all placed our hexes, and for Tapper to pick first. That should even things out nicely I think, and have been the way we've always built the galaxy in TI3 (though it's possible it's a house rule, I learned how to play the game from the guy who owns it in our group).

The official Ti3 and Ti4 rules are that you do pick your race and homeworld location first, but you aren't locked into where you place tiles (just have to do ring 1 first, then complete ring 2, etc), so you typically get to place your drafted hexes into your corner of the galaxy. But there's a million different houserules that people use, and a lot of people don't like the official rules for various good reasons.

[Tattersail_]

Maybe Blend will clarify what is going to happen, as it does seem it benefits Khell currently.

[D'rek]

All in all, I don't think it's that big of a deal, as we can all simply counter-balance Khell ourselves by sending all our shit tiles towards him

[Khellendros]

D, on 10 July 2018 - 12:46 PM, said:

All in all, I don't think it's that big of a deal, as we can all simply counter-balance Khell ourselves by sending all our shit tiles towards him

I counter you counter balance by being the Saar and simply moving on to some better tiles

[Blend]

Drek is correct.

I found the hex placement rule on Harsh Rules on youtube. He suggests doing it this way (though in a 6 player game) so I figured we would give it a shot this way.

If we dont like it whoever runs the next game can do it differently.

[D'rek]

Blend, on 10 July 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

Drek is correct.

I found the hex placement rule on Harsh Rules on youtube. He suggests doing it this way (though in a 6 player game) so I figured we would give it a shot this way.

If we dont like it whoever runs the next game can do it differently.

Can you clarify whether round 1 Strategy Card selection will be Speaker(random)-clockwise, Speaker(Khell)-clockwise, or player list order?

[Galactic Council]

I was gonna use the randomized signup list in the exact same way that you used the signup list last game.

[D'rek]

Galactic Council, on 10 July 2018 - 01:10 PM, said:

I was gonna use the randomized signup list in the exact same way that you used the signup list last game.

I don't remember how I did that.

[Imperial Historian]

I'm a bit confused with the way the homeworld positioning etc is working here. If khell is first speaker and first pick on everything seems like a big advantage! I'd expect him to be at least not speaker.

Do I get to see which homeworlds people pick first?

[D'rek]

Imperial Historian, on 10 July 2018 - 01:17 PM, said:

I'm a bit confused with the way the homeworld positioning etc is working here. If khell is first speaker and first pick on everything seems like a big advantage! I'd expect him to be at least not speaker.

Do I get to see which homeworlds people pick first?

You can if you want to.

Khell picked B.
Bliss hasn't picked yet but 85% she goes A and 14% she goes C.
I'm picking D.

[Khellendros]

Imperial Historian, on 10 July 2018 - 01:17 PM, said:

I'm a bit confused with the way the homeworld positioning etc is working here. If khell is first speaker and first pick on everything seems like a big advantage! I'd expect him to be at least not speaker.

Do I get to see which homeworlds people pick first?

I think people are making too big a deal of this. I picked the homeworld which is in theory most advantageous to me (but not necessarily so depending on which races choose to be my neighbours), but that also means that that spot is also not the one which would be theoretically best for you, or for anyone else. As for Speaker, I'd only be that first turn, not every round.

As you yourself just pointed out, you have the advantage of seeing where several other people go before deciding your position.