[Macros]

Exactly, meaning we will know they are absolute garbage

[Tiste Simeon]

Ah good point.

[nacht]

Bella Forrest is clearly an AI writing bot birthed in a Google lab.
But this is just the beginning. Wait till she starts churning out a Netflix series of one episode every day.

[Macros]

Is she basically SimOne then?

[Tsundoku]

Macros, on 22 May 2018 - 09:15 AM, said:

Is she basically SimOne then?

... which is an anagram of

Simeon! Dun dun dunnnnnn! It was you all along!

[Tattersail_]

I thought and think AI

[Tiste Simeon]

I deny everything!

Even that!

And that!

Especially that!

[Zetubal]

Tiste Simeon, on 22 May 2018 - 03:44 PM, said:

I deny everything!

Even that!

And that!

Especially that!

Sounds guilty to me.

[Coco with marshmallows]

Astonishing.

that outdoes old Barbara Cartland for productivity.... surely has to be a team of writers?

Either that or she lied in the interview back in 2012 and actually already had most of the books written already (think extraordinarily long fanfic) which was then chopped/edited into a series

[Zetubal]

Coco with marshmallows, on 30 May 2018 - 10:22 PM, said:

Either that or she lied in the interview back in 2012 and actually already had most of the books written already (think extraordinarily long fanfic) which was then chopped/edited into a series

As I said earlier in this thread, I think that's highly unlikely for a couple of reasons. But for the sake of argument let's go through this. As many people have observed, her Shade of Vampire series seems heavily "inspired" by Twilight. The first Twilight novel was published in 2005. So even if Bella Forrest immediately read the first Twilight novel and right after that started her "fanfic", that would still mean she wrote 60 novels of that series in a time frame of 12,5 years (like 5 novels per year). In my book, that stills puts her at the top of the most proliferate authors. Ah, and it doesn't explain the 34 other novels she pumped out on the side.

I think what really puts the nail in the coffin here is the time aspect. Fanfic is fine and everything but I dare you to find anyone who dedicates years to decades of full-time-work to writing a Fanfic without pay for like half of it.

This post has been edited by Zetubal: 31 May 2018 - 02:02 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Zetubal, on 31 May 2018 - 02:01 PM, said:

Coco with marshmallows, on 30 May 2018 - 10:22 PM, said:

Either that or she lied in the interview back in 2012 and actually already had most of the books written already (think extraordinarily long fanfic) which was then chopped/edited into a series

As I said earlier in this thread, I think that's highly unlikely for a couple of reasons. But for the sake of argument let's go through this. As many people have observed, her Shade of Vampire series seems heavily "inspired" by Twilight. The first Twilight novel was published in 2005. So even if Bella Forrest immediately read the first Twilight novel and right after that started her "fanfic", that would still mean she wrote 60 novels of that series in a time frame of 12,5 years (like 5 novels per year). In my book, that stills puts her at the top of the most proliferate authors. Ah, and it doesn't explain the 34 other novels she pumped out on the side.

Could the other novels have been mostly written before?

The interview actually says:
'How many books have you written? Which is your favorite?
- I have completed two books'

*Completed*. She could have written large amounts of material. For many authors producing a 'completed' book is less about writing enough material for every part and more about forming fragments into a coherent, polished whole.

Quote

I think what really puts the nail in the coffin here is the time aspect. Fanfic is fine and everything but I dare you to find anyone who dedicates years to decades of full-time-work to writing a Fanfic without pay for like half of it.

There are plenty of people in the United States, of diverse socioeconomic backgrounds, who either don't work for a living or are chronically underemployed. (The 4.1% 'unemployment rate' is misleading because it doesn't count people who aren't actively looking for work.)

Some potentially relevant bits from the interview:

'The early hours of the morning are my favorite for writing. So I get out of bed at like 1.30am and work through until 9am. The biggest chunks of my writing get done during this period. Then I have a nap, and write some more during the day. I'm typically in bed by 9pm. Yeah … I'm weird.

5. How do you balance family and writing?I don't really! Which is bad, I know. I'm terrible at multi-tasking. I don't have kids but the rest of my family and friends get almost entirely neglected when I am on a writing marathon.'

'17. For an aspiring writer what do you feel are certain do's and don'ts for writing a successful book?
Do: write about what you know. This is an obvious one but some writers do make this mistake of jumping into genres purely because they are "popular". Most readers can detect if a writer's heart is not fully in it. Do: try to write daily. Even if you have another job, get into the habit of fixing a certain period every day during which you must write. Don't: ever think a genre has been done to death IF this is a genre that comes naturally to you. For example, so many people ask me why on earth I have chosen to write about vampires. Surely they've been squeezed dry by now? But this question doesn't actually make sense when you analyze it. It's the originality of your story and the world you create that counts. Not what "species" you choose to write about.'



'I normally post my writing progress on my website: www.bellaforrest.net so readers can keep an eye on how many words I have left to write!'

Glancing at her reviews, her fans claim her books are not like Twilight. Perhaps there's a broader background of vampire romances she's drawing from? The Southern Vampire Mysteries started in 2001....

If I only saw the title 'A Shade of Vampire' and the pseudonym 'Bella Forrest' I'd bet on AI. Seriously, 'A Shade of Vampire' is the sort of awkward, quasi-gibberish mash-up (of '50 Shades of Gray' and 'vampire') that AI tends to produce. That said, the stories generated by neural networks that I've seen up to this point haven't been remotely coherent. Unless she's part of a secret Amazon project... maybe a new (set of) Bible(s and Korans of the future sacred sheeple) will be next?

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 31 May 2018 - 03:32 PM

[Gabriele]

Salt-Man Z, on 21 May 2018 - 03:58 PM, said:

Occam's Razor bets she just constantly churns out garbage books and games the Amazon system to get the sales #s and the 5-star revews.

You don't need to game Amazon reviews for that. A lot of people have a crappy taste.

Has anyone checked how many pages her 'novels' have? Maybe they are really novelettes.

[amphibian]

The most likely explanation is that this is a front for a collective and there is very little editorial process.

That kind of production as a side job is unsustainable for the length of time from one person.

Mark Lawrence is the only person I can think of that can do writing as a side job and push out good quality writing in rapid fire. He is only able to do this because his main job is caring for his severely disabled daughter while his wife works and they have nationalized healthcare. He's written 9 novels in ten years roughly. They've been published in seven years and he's busy at work at the next all the time.

Most people, especially Americans, cannot do this unless they are very rich to begin with and absolutely love the act of writing. Very few previously wealthy people become committed authors beyond a book or two.

This isn't a hoax per se, but it does seem like a narrative put together to catch onto a gullible crowd. That's made easier by these being short books.

[amphibian]

94 novels in 6 years means this collective has to be at least 8 people in size and go through very minimal editorial and art direction.

The shortest is 280 pages. That is impossible to do as a single person.

Danielle Steel has written 140+ novels over her 50 years of writing and everyone knows it is an open secret she uses ghost writers to pump out all those romance novels.

This is no different.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 31 May 2018 - 05:38 PM

[QuickTidal]

Guys, her website has the header image as :

BELLA FORREST - MILLION BESTSELLING AUTHOR.

That tag doesn't even really make sense. Million what? And is it not plural? Should it not be MILLIONS OF BESTSELLERS? It feels like a google-translate issue which...I mean...it's a header image, if she were represented by an agency or publisher...this would not be the case. The site is also Squarespace to the max, meaning home-brewed, and templated.

You can only buy her/their books on Amazon because of an "exclusive deal"...so guessing self-published...and flogging her/their own crap on Amazon is most likely for that...

This is like that episode of the Simpsons where they Author-Source a fantasy YA series, pretending it's one author.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

QuickTidal, on 31 May 2018 - 05:54 PM, said:

Guys, her website has the header image as :

BELLA FORREST - MILLION BESTSELLING AUTHOR.

That tag doesn't even really make sense. Million what? And is it not plural? Should it not be MILLIONS OF BESTSELLERS? It feels like a google-translate issue which...I mean...it's a header image, if she were represented by an agency or publisher...this would not be the case. The site is also Squarespace to the max, meaning home-brewed, and templated.

You can only buy her/their books on Amazon because of an "exclusive deal"...so guessing self-published...and flogging her/their own crap on Amazon is most likely for that...

This is like that episode of the Simpsons where they Author-Source a fantasy YA series, pretending it's one author.

I was wrong about the progress of AI in writing novels:

'a Japanese AI program has co-authored a short-form novel that passed the first round of screening for a national literary prize, it seems that no occupation is safe. The robot-written novel didn't win the competition's final prize, but who's to say it won't improve in its next attempt?'

https://www.digitalt...literary-prize/

A native English speaker probably wouldn't write anything as awkward as 'A Shade of Vampire' or 'Million Bestselling Author'---they're like Melania Trump's bizarre 'Be Best' slogan. If she's not AI, either English isn't her first language, or she's had a traumatic brain injury (or tumor perhaps)....

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 31 May 2018 - 06:00 PM

[Zetubal]

Azath Vitr (D, on 31 May 2018 - 03:31 PM, said:

Could the other novels have been mostly written before?

The interview actually says:
'How many books have you written? Which is your favorite?
- I have completed two books'

*Completed*. She could have written large amounts of material. For many authors producing a 'completed' book is less about writing enough material for every part and more about forming fragments into a coherent, polished whole.

There are plenty of people in the United States, of diverse socioeconomic backgrounds, who either don't work for a living or are chronically underemployed. (The 4.1% 'unemployment rate' is misleading because it doesn't count people who aren't actively looking for work.)

Hm, I think if we're talking things like is it mechanically/technically possible...well I can't really check that but I still think, as I said, it's very unlikely. Even if she doesn't have to work for a living writing the sheer staggering amount of 94 novels is a lifetime of creative work for most other authors. And I'm talking full-time professional authors. Forrest has published more novels than Steven King, R.A. Salvatore, Raymond Feist and many other renowned authors who are already considered to be proliferate (or consistent) in their respective output and have worked as professional authors for like 40 to 50 years. And these are people who have just as much time for writing as Forrest does, simply because it's actually been their job for decades.
It takes insane amounts of both creativity and discipline, not to mention tenacity, to spend hours upon hours on a daily basis to write coherent, entertaining works of fiction. I believe that professionals have at least more of an incentive to write consistently because they need to publish in order to make a living. And they have deadlines to meet. It would be incredible if Bella Forrest put the same amount of tenacity and dedication into what would've been a mere hobby for years on end.

This scenario in which we "normalize" Bella Forrest's output by saying she's probably written much in advance is just weird. For this amount to be anything short of baffling it would have to turn out to she's an elderly woman in her 80s who's been writing consistently as a hobby for like 60 years (still like 1,3 novels per year written in that case) with the discipline and commitment of a professional, still ended up producing what is received as "modern, contemporary YA literature" when it saw its first release in 2012, and she never tried/succeeded to make a dime before that.

That would be the kind of freakish commitment to a hobby that warrants a Hollywood biopic.

Gabriele, on 31 May 2018 - 04:32 PM, said:

Has anyone checked how many pages her 'novels' have? Maybe they are really novelettes.

280-550 pages.

amphibian, on 31 May 2018 - 05:35 PM, said:

94 novels in 6 years means this collective has to be at least 8 people in size and go through very minimal editorial and art direction.

I'm generally with you here but just out of curiosity: How did you come up with this specific number of 8 people?

This post has been edited by Zetubal: 31 May 2018 - 08:09 PM

[Macros]

i was wondering my self if it was just an arbitrary number Amph had thrown out or if there was a super secret calculation we should all know about for an authors potential output

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Zetubal, on 31 May 2018 - 08:05 PM, said:

Azath Vitr (D, on 31 May 2018 - 03:31 PM, said:

Could the other novels have been mostly written before?

The interview actually says:
'How many books have you written? Which is your favorite?
- I have completed two books'

*Completed*. She could have written large amounts of material. For many authors producing a 'completed' book is less about writing enough material for every part and more about forming fragments into a coherent, polished whole.

There are plenty of people in the United States, of diverse socioeconomic backgrounds, who either don't work for a living or are chronically underemployed. (The 4.1% 'unemployment rate' is misleading because it doesn't count people who aren't actively looking for work.)

Hm, I think if we're talking things like is it mechanically/technically possible...well I can't really check that but I still think, as I said, it's very unlikely. Even if she doesn't have to work for a living writing the sheer staggering amount of 94 novels is a lifetime of creative work for most other authors. And I'm talking full-time professional authors. Forrest has published more novels than Steven King, R.A. Salvatore, Raymond Feist and many other renowned authors who are already considered to be proliferate (or consistent) in their respective output and have worked as professional authors for like 40 to 50 years. And these are people who have just as much time for writing as Forrest does, simply because it's actually been their job for decades.
It takes insane amounts of both creativity and discipline, not to mention tenacity, to spend hours upon hours on a daily basis to write coherent, entertaining works of fiction. I believe that professionals have at least more of an incentive to write consistently because they need to publish in order to make a living. And they have deadlines to meet. It would be incredible if Bella Forrest put the same amount of tenacity and dedication into what would've been a mere hobby for years on end.

This scenario in which we "normalize" Bella Forrest's output by saying she's probably written much in advance is just weird. For this amount to be anything short of baffling it would have to turn out to she's an elderly woman in her 80s who's been writing consistently as a hobby for like 60 years (still like 1,3 novels per year written in that case) with the discipline and commitment of a professional, still ended up producing what is received as "modern, contemporary YA literature" when it saw its first release in 2012, and she never tried/succeeded to make a dime before that.

That would be the kind of freakish commitment to a hobby that warrants a Hollywood biopic.

Since she self-published, there's a good chance she submitted to publishers in the past and got rejected. After myriad rejections, Stephen King was reduced to selling his blood to pay for baby formula and threw the manuscript of Carrie in the trash before his wife fished it out.

I know quite a few people who don't either don't work or are underemployed and spend most of their time devoted obsessively to making art.

Is the sort of contemporary YA literature she writes all that different from YA before the last decade or two? Vampire prince kidnaps her to a vampire island, keeps her imprisone... apparently really awful, old-fashioned seeming stuff. If anything it seems at odds with the present age.

(Not that I disagree with your conclusion; these just don't seem like convincing arguments for it.)

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 31 May 2018 - 08:48 PM

[amphibian]

Macros, on 31 May 2018 - 08:14 PM, said:

i was wondering my self if it was just an arbitrary number Amph had thrown out or if there was a super secret calculation we should all know about for an authors potential output

Took Lawrence's output and divided 94 by that to get the minimal number of Lawrence clones who could write that many books.

I think the real number is much higher - probably double that - but it could be theoretically possible to find eight Lawrence clones, pay them a living wage, and keep them all quiet and willing to give up striking out on their own for years and years.