[Morgoth]

it's your turn, btb, IH.

[Tattersail_]

Imperial Historian, on 06 June 2018 - 08:20 AM, said:

Tattersail_, on 06 June 2018 - 06:14 AM, said:

IH would you give me two component/take an action cards for my ceasefire PN?

Blend to broker the deal you could take the action card you liked?

That doesn't seem anywhere near valuable enough for two good action cards. I'd want at least an action card in return on top of that plus some trade goods.

I don't mind how good the cards are. I'd have to do the math regarding TG's. Ceasefire PN is pretty powerful, if we were to come to blows you'd force two moves out of me which is what the action cards would be providing me.

I only have 2 action cards and neither are great, the intercept will stop Twelve retreating when he decides that's what he wants to do.

When I build War sun, i'll have 5 TG's, 4 of which are planned for research so i'd only have 1 TG, my commodities once refreshed go to Blend already. Hmm, if research goes after diplomacy I might have more to give you but that's looking doubtful as both Morgoth and Blend are looking like they will keep warfare and technology with-held back.

So Ceasefire PN for 1 component/tactical action/take action action card?

[Tattersail_]

Otherwise, Blend I could offer you my Ceasefire PN and that action card to play warfare next turn, with Gnaw's deal that should trump Twelve's deal, as he won't be able to attack you for a round or two anyway as he builds himself back up.

[Tattersail_]

Morgoth, on 06 June 2018 - 08:26 AM, said:

I certainly don't want twelve to collapse. I just don't want him to control too much of the board.

Hmm, systems owned inc HW;

IH has 4
Blend has 4
Nico has 2
Twelve now has 3
I have 4
Gnaw has 5
Tapper has 6
Morgoth has 6
Khell has 5

[Morgoth]

Tattersail_, on 06 June 2018 - 08:48 AM, said:

Morgoth, on 06 June 2018 - 08:26 AM, said:

I certainly don't want twelve to collapse. I just don't want him to control too much of the board.

Hmm, systems owned inc HW;

IH has 4
Blend has 4
Nico has 2
Twelve now has 3
I have 4
Gnaw has 5
Tapper has 6
Morgoth has 6
Khell has 5

4 technically, but he still owns 10 planets, with a hefty combined production and influence.

[Tapper]

Khellendros, on 06 June 2018 - 08:19 AM, said:

Tattersail_, on 06 June 2018 - 08:15 AM, said:

Tapper, on 06 June 2018 - 08:04 AM, said:

Tapper, on 05 June 2018 - 07:17 PM, said:

twelve, on 05 June 2018 - 06:26 PM, said:

Tapper, unless I get the free refresh for trade I won't be researching anything you don't already have. If you can help convince IH to give me one then you won't be able to use my pn.

Not unexpected. I can hold on to it.

I have been thinking on what to tell IH without sounding like a tool trying to get his 'free' research at any cost in this round.

In the end, the only two things I can really say are:
1. Twelve offered free refreshment to everyone, I don't know if IH offered to return the favor unconditionally;

2. Twelve is pretty much overextended on the map and now subject to pressure.
The one thing we do not want, is for Twelve to collapse himself in turn and be reduced control only 2-3 core systems (Jol-Nar, Everra and Quecen/Harron), with one other player taking the other planets in quick succession.
If Twelve would collapse in such a fashion, it also means there's one less player with the capacity to fight that player. Nico and Khell are already somewhat hamstrung and have a hard time projecting power through a lack of fleets, and Tatts lost a big fleet, too.
I think everyone is much better served by a gradual erosion in which Twelve is still a credible threat to other frontrunners like Khell, Tatts (in points, less so in fleets) and Morgoth.

I have same points as Nico, IH, Morgoth, less than Twelve and Khell, and after this turn you will over-take me, when you stated you can get 2 VP's.

I know, right? Tapper is totally trying to sneak under the radar. The bugs haven't made a single wave all game.

Well, with zero starting tech and just a cruiser Sardakk are a bit of a slow starter. I have been activating Tech and Diplomacy every round just to not fall further behind on tech and ship building - essentially, that's the 2 end-of-turn CT right there.
As such, grabbing Leadership turn 1 was a big boon.

My systems do have good influence, so I scrape out a few extra CT.
The blue tech planet has been a godsend: instrumental for getting the 3 unit upgrades (all of which required blue).
Without those two advantages, I think I would be anopther case of Sardakk coming in dead last (it is the lowest in scoring and win percentages of all TI4 races according to BGG statistics).

[Morgoth]

Tapper, on 06 June 2018 - 09:01 AM, said:

Khellendros, on 06 June 2018 - 08:19 AM, said:

Tattersail_, on 06 June 2018 - 08:15 AM, said:

Tapper, on 06 June 2018 - 08:04 AM, said:

Tapper, on 05 June 2018 - 07:17 PM, said:

twelve, on 05 June 2018 - 06:26 PM, said:

Tapper, unless I get the free refresh for trade I won't be researching anything you don't already have. If you can help convince IH to give me one then you won't be able to use my pn.

Not unexpected. I can hold on to it.

I have been thinking on what to tell IH without sounding like a tool trying to get his 'free' research at any cost in this round.

In the end, the only two things I can really say are:
1. Twelve offered free refreshment to everyone, I don't know if IH offered to return the favor unconditionally;

2. Twelve is pretty much overextended on the map and now subject to pressure.
The one thing we do not want, is for Twelve to collapse himself in turn and be reduced control only 2-3 core systems (Jol-Nar, Everra and Quecen/Harron), with one other player taking the other planets in quick succession.
If Twelve would collapse in such a fashion, it also means there's one less player with the capacity to fight that player. Nico and Khell are already somewhat hamstrung and have a hard time projecting power through a lack of fleets, and Tatts lost a big fleet, too.
I think everyone is much better served by a gradual erosion in which Twelve is still a credible threat to other frontrunners like Khell, Tatts (in points, less so in fleets) and Morgoth.

I have same points as Nico, IH, Morgoth, less than Twelve and Khell, and after this turn you will over-take me, when you stated you can get 2 VP's.

I know, right? Tapper is totally trying to sneak under the radar. The bugs haven't made a single wave all game.

Well, with zero starting tech and just a cruiser Sardakk are a bit of a slow starter. I have been activating Tech and Diplomacy every round just to not fall further behind on tech and ship building - essentially, that's the 2 end-of-turn CT right there.
As such, grabbing Leadership turn 1 was a big boon.

My systems do have good influence, so I scrape out a few extra CT.
The blue tech planet has been a godsend: instrumental for getting the 3 unit upgrades (all of which required blue).
Without those two advantages, I think I would be anopther case of Sardakk coming in dead last (it is the lowest in scoring and win percentages of all TI4 races according to BGG statistics).

Yeah, the universal +1 is terrifying, but not very flexible. I would have said the same thing about the Necro Virus, but with the addition of the token bonus in 4th ed. they became a lot more versatile.

[twelve]

Morgoth, on 06 June 2018 - 08:26 AM, said:

Tapper, on 06 June 2018 - 08:04 AM, said:

Tapper, on 05 June 2018 - 07:17 PM, said:

twelve, on 05 June 2018 - 06:26 PM, said:

Tapper, unless I get the free refresh for trade I won't be researching anything you don't already have. If you can help convince IH to give me one then you won't be able to use my pn.

Not unexpected. I can hold on to it.

I have been thinking on what to tell IH without sounding like a tool trying to get his 'free' research at any cost in this round.

In the end, the only two things I can really say are:
1. Twelve offered free refreshment to everyone, I don't know if IH offered to return the favor unconditionally;

2. Twelve is pretty much overextended on the map and now subject to pressure.
The one thing we do not want, is for Twelve to collapse himself in turn and be reduced control only 2-3 core systems (Jol-Nar, Everra and Quecen/Harron), with one other player taking the other planets in quick succession.
If Twelve would collapse in such a fashion, it also means there's one less player with the capacity to fight that player. Nico and Khell are already somewhat hamstrung and have a hard time projecting power through a lack of fleets, and Tatts lost a big fleet, too.
I think everyone is much better served by a gradual erosion in which Twelve is still a credible threat to other frontrunners like Khell, Tatts (in points, less so in fleets) and Morgoth.

I certainly don't want twelve to collapse. I just don't want him to control too much of the board.

I've been trying to negotiate a withdrawal of Abyz/Fria but Tatts woyld rather try and wipe out my fleet. My ships are leaving that system before the end of the round if I'm not destroyed on my own free will. The system did what I needed and the only reason I needed it in the first place is Nico blew up the dock in Zohbat, else I was not going to go anywhere.

[Blend]

Tattersail_, on 06 June 2018 - 08:44 AM, said:

Otherwise, Blend I could offer you my Ceasefire PN and that action card to play warfare next turn, with Gnaw's deal that should trump Twelve's deal, as he won't be able to attack you for a round or two anyway as he builds himself back up.

So we are clear, you are offering your ceasefire PN and that action card (not infiltrate, the other one), plus, as long as Gnaw's still on board, Gnaw returns my Trade Agreement, all so I play Warfare next turn?

If I've got that right, ball's back in yours and Gnaw's court, this offer's now better than Twelve's. Sorry Twelve!

[twelve]

Well I'm tapped. And screwed. Wait he has infiltrate and intercept as his 2 action cards?

[Tattersail_]

Blend, on 06 June 2018 - 01:28 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 06 June 2018 - 08:44 AM, said:

Otherwise, Blend I could offer you my Ceasefire PN and that action card to play warfare next turn, with Gnaw's deal that should trump Twelve's deal, as he won't be able to attack you for a round or two anyway as he builds himself back up.

So we are clear, you are offering your ceasefire PN and that action card (not infiltrate, the other one), plus, as long as Gnaw's still on board, Gnaw returns my Trade Agreement, all so I play Warfare next turn?

If I've got that right, ball's back in yours and Gnaw's court, this offer's now better than Twelve's. Sorry Twelve!

Yes, that sounds about right.

[Tattersail_]

twelve, on 06 June 2018 - 01:25 PM, said:

Morgoth, on 06 June 2018 - 08:26 AM, said:

Tapper, on 06 June 2018 - 08:04 AM, said:

Tapper, on 05 June 2018 - 07:17 PM, said:

twelve, on 05 June 2018 - 06:26 PM, said:

Tapper, unless I get the free refresh for trade I won't be researching anything you don't already have. If you can help convince IH to give me one then you won't be able to use my pn.

Not unexpected. I can hold on to it.

I have been thinking on what to tell IH without sounding like a tool trying to get his 'free' research at any cost in this round.

In the end, the only two things I can really say are:
1. Twelve offered free refreshment to everyone, I don't know if IH offered to return the favor unconditionally;

2. Twelve is pretty much overextended on the map and now subject to pressure.
The one thing we do not want, is for Twelve to collapse himself in turn and be reduced control only 2-3 core systems (Jol-Nar, Everra and Quecen/Harron), with one other player taking the other planets in quick succession.
If Twelve would collapse in such a fashion, it also means there's one less player with the capacity to fight that player. Nico and Khell are already somewhat hamstrung and have a hard time projecting power through a lack of fleets, and Tatts lost a big fleet, too.
I think everyone is much better served by a gradual erosion in which Twelve is still a credible threat to other frontrunners like Khell, Tatts (in points, less so in fleets) and Morgoth.

I certainly don't want twelve to collapse. I just don't want him to control too much of the board.

I've been trying to negotiate a withdrawal of Abyz/Fria but Tatts woyld rather try and wipe out my fleet. My ships are leaving that system before the end of the round if I'm not destroyed on my own free will. The system did what I needed and the only reason I needed it in the first place is Nico blew up the dock in Zohbat, else I was not going to go anywhere.

If that fleet disappears then the threat has gone from my side of the board, its not like I want you to attack Nico or IH either. You're in too good a position with all your tech to be left untouched. In a way I'd be doing you a favour, you'd be able to build your dreads elsewhere.

[twelve]

Tattersail_, on 06 June 2018 - 01:44 PM, said:

twelve, on 06 June 2018 - 01:25 PM, said:

Morgoth, on 06 June 2018 - 08:26 AM, said:

Tapper, on 06 June 2018 - 08:04 AM, said:

Tapper, on 05 June 2018 - 07:17 PM, said:

twelve, on 05 June 2018 - 06:26 PM, said:

Tapper, unless I get the free refresh for trade I won't be researching anything you don't already have. If you can help convince IH to give me one then you won't be able to use my pn.

Not unexpected. I can hold on to it.

I have been thinking on what to tell IH without sounding like a tool trying to get his 'free' research at any cost in this round.

In the end, the only two things I can really say are:
1. Twelve offered free refreshment to everyone, I don't know if IH offered to return the favor unconditionally;

2. Twelve is pretty much overextended on the map and now subject to pressure.
The one thing we do not want, is for Twelve to collapse himself in turn and be reduced control only 2-3 core systems (Jol-Nar, Everra and Quecen/Harron), with one other player taking the other planets in quick succession.
If Twelve would collapse in such a fashion, it also means there's one less player with the capacity to fight that player. Nico and Khell are already somewhat hamstrung and have a hard time projecting power through a lack of fleets, and Tatts lost a big fleet, too.
I think everyone is much better served by a gradual erosion in which Twelve is still a credible threat to other frontrunners like Khell, Tatts (in points, less so in fleets) and Morgoth.

I certainly don't want twelve to collapse. I just don't want him to control too much of the board.

I've been trying to negotiate a withdrawal of Abyz/Fria but Tatts woyld rather try and wipe out my fleet. My ships are leaving that system before the end of the round if I'm not destroyed on my own free will. The system did what I needed and the only reason I needed it in the first place is Nico blew up the dock in Zohbat, else I was not going to go anywhere.

If that fleet disappears then the threat has gone from my side of the board, its not like I want you to attack Nico or IH either. You're in too good a position with all your tech to be left untouched. In a way I'd be doing you a favour, you'd be able to build your dreads elsewhere.

I'm moving them back to my system that Nicos dreads are on. If he moves them out of the way then I won't have to atrack anyone.

[D'rek]

Khellendros, on 06 June 2018 - 08:08 AM, said:

D, on 06 June 2018 - 12:31 AM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 05 June 2018 - 10:26 PM, said:

Is Nico still playing or is Drek playing as him? Been waiting on an answer on whether he is going to accept my deal for a free trade refresh in return for no looting or not...

Thought Nico would be back by today... I will tentatively answer this with a no.

Make him give both you and I a free refresh so I can give you your TGs.

Thing is, Nico already has more trade goods than he's able to spend, and IH is a scary next-door neighbour. I think Nico leans more towards not empowering IH over accumulating even more TGs right away, plus the likelihood of collecting a couple more from whatever IH is plotting anyway.

[twelve]

Imperial Historian, on 06 June 2018 - 08:13 AM, said:

Tapper, on 06 June 2018 - 08:04 AM, said:

Tapper, on 05 June 2018 - 07:17 PM, said:

twelve, on 05 June 2018 - 06:26 PM, said:

Tapper, unless I get the free refresh for trade I won't be researching anything you don't already have. If you can help convince IH to give me one then you won't be able to use my pn.

Not unexpected. I can hold on to it.

I have been thinking on what to tell IH without sounding like a tool trying to get his 'free' research at any cost in this round.

In the end, the only two things I can really say are:
1. Twelve offered free refreshment to everyone, I don't know if IH offered to return the favor unconditionally;

2. Twelve is pretty much overextended on the map and now subject to pressure.
The one thing we do not want, is for Twelve to collapse himself in turn and be reduced control only 2-3 core systems (Jol-Nar, Everra and Quecen/Harron), with one other player taking the other planets in quick succession.
If Twelve would collapse in such a fashion, it also means there's one less player with the capacity to fight that player. Nico and Khell are already somewhat hamstrung and have a hard time projecting power through a lack of fleets, and Tatts lost a big fleet, too.
I think everyone is much better served by a gradual erosion in which Twelve is still a credible threat to other frontrunners like Khell, Tatts (in points, less so in fleets) and Morgoth.

I've said I'll give twelve a free refresh in return for him refreshing me earlier in the game.

Why did I think you weren't going to be giving me one this round? Huh? Thanks IH. And with me getting to keep my trade pn I might actually have something to trade

[Blend]

Tattersail_, on 06 June 2018 - 01:38 PM, said:

Blend, on 06 June 2018 - 01:28 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 06 June 2018 - 08:44 AM, said:

Otherwise, Blend I could offer you my Ceasefire PN and that action card to play warfare next turn, with Gnaw's deal that should trump Twelve's deal, as he won't be able to attack you for a round or two anyway as he builds himself back up.

So we are clear, you are offering your ceasefire PN and that action card (not infiltrate, the other one), plus, as long as Gnaw's still on board, Gnaw returns my Trade Agreement, all so I play Warfare next turn?

If I've got that right, ball's back in yours and Gnaw's court, this offer's now better than Twelve's. Sorry Twelve!

Yes, that sounds about right.

As long as Gnaw is still on board, then you guys have yourselves a deal.

Gnaw?

[Khellendros]

D, on 06 June 2018 - 02:09 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 06 June 2018 - 08:08 AM, said:

D, on 06 June 2018 - 12:31 AM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 05 June 2018 - 10:26 PM, said:

Is Nico still playing or is Drek playing as him? Been waiting on an answer on whether he is going to accept my deal for a free trade refresh in return for no looting or not...

Thought Nico would be back by today... I will tentatively answer this with a no.

Make him give both you and I a free refresh so I can give you your TGs.

Thing is, Nico already has more trade goods than he's able to spend, and IH is a scary next-door neighbour. I think Nico leans more towards not empowering IH over accumulating even more TGs right away, plus the likelihood of collecting a couple more from whatever IH is plotting anyway.

That sounds sensible. Which is exactly why that is not what Nico would do

[Gnaw]

Blend, on 06 June 2018 - 02:14 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 06 June 2018 - 01:38 PM, said:

Blend, on 06 June 2018 - 01:28 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 06 June 2018 - 08:44 AM, said:

Otherwise, Blend I could offer you my Ceasefire PN and that action card to play warfare next turn, with Gnaw's deal that should trump Twelve's deal, as he won't be able to attack you for a round or two anyway as he builds himself back up.

So we are clear, you are offering your ceasefire PN and that action card (not infiltrate, the other one), plus, as long as Gnaw's still on board, Gnaw returns my Trade Agreement, all so I play Warfare next turn?

If I've got that right, ball's back in yours and Gnaw's court, this offer's now better than Twelve's. Sorry Twelve!

Yes, that sounds about right.

As long as Gnaw is still on board, then you guys have yourselves a deal.

Gnaw?

of course

[twelve]

Blend want to do a 4 to 4 commodity swap when we can to minimize the pillage impact?

[Blend]

Gnaw, on 06 June 2018 - 03:07 PM, said:

Blend, on 06 June 2018 - 02:14 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 06 June 2018 - 01:38 PM, said:

Blend, on 06 June 2018 - 01:28 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 06 June 2018 - 08:44 AM, said:

Otherwise, Blend I could offer you my Ceasefire PN and that action card to play warfare next turn, with Gnaw's deal that should trump Twelve's deal, as he won't be able to attack you for a round or two anyway as he builds himself back up.

So we are clear, you are offering your ceasefire PN and that action card (not infiltrate, the other one), plus, as long as Gnaw's still on board, Gnaw returns my Trade Agreement, all so I play Warfare next turn?

If I've got that right, ball's back in yours and Gnaw's court, this offer's now better than Twelve's. Sorry Twelve!

Yes, that sounds about right.

As long as Gnaw is still on board, then you guys have yourselves a deal.

Gnaw?

of course

Then that's a deal, I will post the trades and I will play Warfare when it comes back around to me.

This post has been edited by Blend: 06 June 2018 - 03:36 PM