[twelve]

Well I'm off to bed. Tapper if my deal with IH falls through I'm willing to trade with you for your votes as well. If you are interested that is. Think on it. Should be back on briefly before work in 6 or 7 hours.

[Tattersail_]

Tapper, on 15 May 2018 - 06:45 AM, said:

Tattersail_, on 15 May 2018 - 06:19 AM, said:

Gnaw I offer you ceasefire PN to vote Mansa 3 and Twelve you can have my political PN.

If the outcome is correct I gain the Speaker Token which is on Gnaw already.

I guess if you get to play a rider and immediately negotiate, I might get to play a rider, too.

The timing of these bribes transactions is going to get confusing - Tatts needs to trade to Twelve before Twelve trades to Gnaw, and Twelve needs to (potentially) trade to IH before he trades to Gnaw.

If they vote that way they get my PNs. That's it. Doesn'tt matter on timing.

[Tapper]

Tattersail_, on 15 May 2018 - 06:21 AM, said:

Who are you talking about? Tapper how is Mallice to your plans? Morgoth will you move ships out of Quann?

Let me illustrate the importance of Mallice to the Sardakk with this promotional video SNN (home of independent news government-approved broadcasts) made:

*sunshine, dancing Sardakk children larvae, flute music plays*

Female voice chitters Mallice, you are our window to the stars

* Sardakk warships cast shadows over the ground, the larvae look up in blind admiration. The camera zooms out, showing Quinarra-Trenlak, then flies through a wormhole, appearing in front of Mallice, where a (badly) CGI'd Sardakk battlefleet circles the planet. The camera approaches the fleet with the speed and dive of a Class II Hornet Spacefighter, into the carrying bay of an Exotrireme I. It screeches to a halt in front of Chuck Norr, First Tekklar Ranger, standing in front of a battalion of ground troops. If you'd stop the camera just then, you would see he is standing on top of a small wooden box, but the camera doesn't, and instead admiringly passes over his cracked carapace, pepper and salt coloured antennae and watery blue eyes*
Next to the hero's face the text "Tresspassers will be shot" appears, becoming larger and larger, then fading to black.

[Tattersail_]

Tapper, on 15 May 2018 - 07:13 AM, said:

Tattersail_, on 15 May 2018 - 06:21 AM, said:

Who are you talking about? Tapper how is Mallice to your plans? Morgoth will you move ships out of Quann?

Let me illustrate the importance of Mallice to the Sardakk with this promotional video SNN (home of independent news government-approved broadcasts) made:

*sunshine, dancing Sardakk children larvae, flute music plays*

Female voice chitters Mallice, you are our window to the stars

* Sardakk warships cast shadows over the ground, the larvae look up in blind admiration. The camera zooms out, showing Quinarra-Trenlak, then flies through a wormhole, appearing in front of Mallice, where a (badly) CGI'd Sardakk battlefleet circles the planet. The camera approaches the fleet with the speed and dive of a Class II Hornet Spacefighter, into the carrying bay of an Exotrireme I. It screeches to a halt in front of Chuck Norr, First Tekklar Ranger, standing in front of a battalion of ground troops. If you'd stop the camera just then, you would see he is standing on top of a small wooden box, but the camera doesn't, and instead admiringly passes over his cracked carapace, pepper and salt coloured antennae and watery blue eyes*
Next to the hero's face the text "Tresspassers will be shot" appears, becoming larger and larger, then fading to black.

Fair enough, maybe we can negotiate where you'd like to see the wormhole appear during the next status phase? I'm thinking of plopping it in 2 or 3 systems which may be good for you and Gnaw.

[Khellendros]

Wow, and people wonder at the short-termism of politicians You guys with your riders and predictions are the absolute worst. Morgoth, you really did not help your case against twelve by predicting for Zohbat. Tapper is as flighty as the wind. And Tatts...well Tatts is actually far enough away from twelve and accumulating VPs at a decent rate that I actually understand his move.

IH, Gnaw (and anyone else with a solid chunk of votes) - I can offer you Support for the Throne or the Sol special PN to change your minds (or ceasefire).

If they don't change their minds, then If anyone other than Blend would like Cybernetic, I have 12 votes to sell. Alternatively, Blend, if you would like to assure getting that, I have 12 votes to sell.

Twelve, in case I can't sway Gnaw/IH etc. and you think you'd no longer need to buy votes if I give all mine to the other agenda, know that if you don't go through with your deals, I will switch my votes back to the first agenda.

[Tapper]

Morgoth, on 15 May 2018 - 06:51 AM, said:

you guys are all working really hard to keep twelve's control safe, huh?

By my count, 17 from Twelve plus 11 from Gnaw makes any votes I would bring for Zohbat irrelevant because Tatts abstains (7 of mine, 6 through IH, 3 of Nico's, Khell's 12) = 28v28, Speaker decides.
The Speaker is Gnaw, Gnaw votes with Twelve. Now, if D'rek rules the riders are played too late (considering Gnaw already accepted Twelve's offer when Tatts and I played the riders, I am more than fine with that) then I will vote Zohbat.

Like Khell says, you didn't particularly help the Zohbat push by selecting it for your tech when its power was on full display this turn - in addition, you now have all you need to make your flagship a world beater.
Blend, IH and I had already set up a mostly harmless deal that would 100% have guaranteed you a research for Cybernetic. Placing your rider on that one would have made you sound much more impartial and way less opportunistic with regards to Zohbat.

[Imperial Historian]

Twelve I'll accept your political PN (as collateral for votes in the future) for my 6 votes I haven't given to blend.

By my count that makes it gnaw as the casting vote.

The way I see this is twelve losing zohbat isn't the end of the world for him, but him spending resources to stop himself losing it is worth it. That said Gnaw I encourage you to vote for zohbat!

[Tattersail_]

Tapper, on 15 May 2018 - 07:37 AM, said:

Morgoth, on 15 May 2018 - 06:51 AM, said:

you guys are all working really hard to keep twelve's control safe, huh?

By my count, 17 from Twelve plus 11 from Gnaw makes any votes I would bring for Zohbat irrelevant because Tatts abstains (7 of mine, 6 through IH, 3 of Nico's, Khell's 12) = 28v28, Speaker decides.
The Speaker is Gnaw, Gnaw votes with Twelve. Now, if D'rek rules the riders are played too late (considering Gnaw already accepted Twelve's offer when Tatts and I played the riders, I am more than fine with that) then I will vote Zohbat.

Like Khell says, you didn't particularly help the Zohbat push by selecting it for your tech when its power was on full display this turn - in addition, you now have all you need to make your flagship a world beater.
Blend, IH and I had already set up a mostly harmless deal that would 100% have guaranteed you a research for Cybernetic. Placing your rider on that one would have made you sound much more impartial and way less opportunistic with regards to Zohbat.

We couldn't have played our riders any sooner as we were in bed asleep, the first thing I did this morning when I woke up was to PM D'rek that I was going to place that rider. I couldn't have done it any sooner. However, I also agree with you, if Morgoth put his votes towards Zohbat then I would have too. I would have kept my rider for another day.

[Gnaw]

Imperial Historian, on 15 May 2018 - 07:41 AM, said:

Twelve I'll accept your political PN (as collateral for votes in the future) for my 6 votes I haven't given to blend.

By my count that makes it gnaw as the casting vote.

The way I see this is twelve losing zohbat isn't the end of the world for him, but him spending resources to stop himself losing it is worth it. That said Gnaw I encourage you to vote for zohbat!

I’ve got two people paying me to vote for MansaIII. Why on earth would I fuck that up?

[Gnaw]

And with that a good night to all

[Khellendros]

Gnaw, on 15 May 2018 - 07:44 AM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 15 May 2018 - 07:41 AM, said:

Twelve I'll accept your political PN (as collateral for votes in the future) for my 6 votes I haven't given to blend.

By my count that makes it gnaw as the casting vote.

The way I see this is twelve losing zohbat isn't the end of the world for him, but him spending resources to stop himself losing it is worth it. That said Gnaw I encourage you to vote for zohbat!

I’ve got two people paying me to vote for MansaIII. Why on earth would I fuck that up?

I'll give you a thousand dollars right now if you attempt to jump over the Grand Canyon.

Alternatively, I'll give you ten bucks to invest in this 100% interest rate guaranteed savings scheme, and you don't have to jump over the Grand Canyon.

[Imperial Historian]

Re riders I'd advocate that next time the riders should all be played BEFORE the status phase, the agendas have been around long enough that people know what they are, the only reason people hold off is to gain an advantage.

[Tapper]

Khellendros, on 15 May 2018 - 07:19 AM, said:

Wow, and people wonder at the short-termism of politicians You guys with your riders and predictions are the absolute worst. Morgoth, you really did not help your case against twelve by predicting for Zohbat. Tapper is as flighty as the wind. And Tatts...well Tatts is actually far enough away from twelve and accumulating VPs at a decent rate that I actually understand his move.

IH, Gnaw (and anyone else with a solid chunk of votes) - I can offer you Support for the Throne or the Sol special PN to change your minds (or ceasefire).

If they don't change their minds, then If anyone other than Blend would like Cybernetic, I have 12 votes to sell. Alternatively, Blend, if you would like to assure getting that, I have 12 votes to sell.

Twelve, in case I can't sway Gnaw/IH etc. and you think you'd no longer need to buy votes if I give all mine to the other agenda, know that if you don't go through with your deals, I will switch my votes back to the first agenda.

I don't think I am flighty (not this round - the vote last round was not my finest moment, I will agree).

I sold a portion of my vote to Cybernetic, yes, but I retained more than half to vote elsewhere.
Back then, I thought that 2 TG would net me the Establish Trade Route VP. In the end, I couldn't pay for that one because I didn't know Nico counts as a neighbour and could pirate me until IH pointed it out.

When I negotiated that deal, I didn't hold the rider, otherwise, I would likely have decided to place the rider on Cybernetic and not sell votes to Blend. I knew already that I could pay Lead from the front as a back-up for VP, and I'd still be a net 2+ TG ahead (cost of a dread + placing it (worth half a CT or so?) where I want vs gaining 2 TG from Blend). Likewise, if I was a real opportunist, I would now have jumped on Twelve's offer for Blend's trade PM. 5 TG (6-1 to Nico) is a VP in and by itself.

With regards to Tatts: like Morgoth, Tatts could have placed his rider on Cybernetic and vote full on for Zohbat. Why he didn't, is only known to him.

[Khellendros]

@IH:

Support for the Throne PN in exchange for not stealing ACs from me next round? Not that I'm the one you should be targeting anyway.

[Tattersail_]

Tapper, on 15 May 2018 - 07:56 AM, said:

With regards to Tatts: like Morgoth, Tatts could have placed his rider on Cybernetic and vote full on for Zohbat. Why he didn't, is only known to him.

Do you know which planet cybernetic is going on?

Edit; Zohbat or Mansa III was only option for the first agenda, 50/50 chance of getting it right, and Twelve has the most votes overall.

This post has been edited by Tattersail_: 15 May 2018 - 08:02 AM

[Tattersail_]

Gnaw, Tapper and Twelve can fulfil the expand borders objective next turn. So my ceasefire PN to you Gnaw is pretty good I think. I have no ideas of coming to blows with you.

[Tapper]

Imperial Historian, on 15 May 2018 - 07:48 AM, said:

Re riders I'd advocate that next time the riders should all be played BEFORE the status phase, the agendas have been around long enough that people know what they are, the only reason people hold off is to gain an advantage.

I agree we might want a solution, but likely (more than) half of the Riders will be drawn during the Status Phase.

Maybe a better solution is to say that once a player did their Status Phase update, they cannot negotiate or trade until after the Agenda phase, only play action cards and vote, both through D'rek?

That way, all negotiation and all transactions for votes have to be made during the turn, and Riders/Voting specials like the Nekro ability are submitted to D'rek for resolution in play-order.
It forces players who really want to achieve a certain outcome to spend CT to continue being able to negotiate, and it might make riders a little more powerful, but it also stops the Status and Agenda phases themselves from becoming very drawn out affairs, and provisionals based on the actions of the players that come before you (say, Tatts could say 'if Tapper plays a Rider on outcome X, I will vote Y') are still possible.

[Tapper]

Blend, on 11 May 2018 - 05:08 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 11 May 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

Seems like a lots been going on!

Back in civilisation, what have I missed?

My votes up for sale for 2tg/political secrets PN/promise of votes in future agendas.

If you throw a few votes on Thibah for Cybernetic, I'll choose you to receive the 2 TGs from Production Biomes next round.

@ Tatts: here.

[Tattersail_]

Tapper, on 15 May 2018 - 08:23 AM, said:

Blend, on 11 May 2018 - 05:08 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 11 May 2018 - 03:50 PM, said:

Seems like a lots been going on!

Back in civilisation, what have I missed?

My votes up for sale for 2tg/political secrets PN/promise of votes in future agendas.

If you throw a few votes on Thibah for Cybernetic, I'll choose you to receive the 2 TGs from Production Biomes next round.

@ Tatts: here.

That's only 15/17 votes total if they all vote that way, not enough to guarantee outcome especially with Khell also having quite a few votes.

[Imperial Historian]

Khellendros, on 15 May 2018 - 08:00 AM, said:

@IH:

Support for the Throne PN in exchange for not stealing ACs from me next round? Not that I'm the one you should be targeting anyway.

Ooh what did you get that you don't want me to steal!

Sure I'll take that deal.