Malazan Empire: Rhulad Sengar - Malazan Empire

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Rhulad Sengar

#1 User is offline   Coalhands 

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 02:27 PM

Posted Image

This post has been edited by Coalhands: 23 February 2018 - 06:24 PM

" ...neither mortal nor immortal can fathom the mind of an artist. But as a general rule, between two possible answers, choose the more sordid one." - Bugg, Dust Of Dreams
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#2 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 03:06 PM

That's.... really.... REALLY.... good.
Damn.
CHASE: Paw Patrol is ready for action Mr Pust sir!
PUST: *pauses ranting* What does that mean?
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#3 User is offline   Gorefest 

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 03:35 PM

Love the manic look in his eyes. Really awesome.
She went and she left me like litter. She took all future summers with her. I lost all my money cuz I tried to bribe her. Now I can only afford an amateur sniper.
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#4 User is offline   Whisperzzzzzzz 

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 04:28 PM

Wow, this is incredible! The expression on his face and in his eyes capture Rhulad perfectly.
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#5 User is offline   Coalhands 

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 05:37 PM

Thanks very much!! I'm really glad you like the expression/ eyes. That was an important thing for me to try and capture. I've always really liked Rhulad; one of those 'villains' who is more a victim than anything else.
" ...neither mortal nor immortal can fathom the mind of an artist. But as a general rule, between two possible answers, choose the more sordid one." - Bugg, Dust Of Dreams
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#6 User is offline   Dolmen 2.0 

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 06:17 PM

Awesome!

I just wish he had more coins on him, as it was kinda functional as armor.

I love the expression. Your work makes me question life :killingme:
“Behind this mask there is more than just flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea... and ideas are bulletproof Gas-Fireproof.”
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#7 User is offline   Puck 

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 07:57 PM

Love the expression! :killingme:

My only complaint would be that he looks like he smeared himself in red paint because the skin should react to having had metal burned into it, then having that metal ripped out again. Also, coins, being rigid, wouldn't curve with the body as some there do, they would tear at the skin and stand out at odd angles. Considering the quality of the image, that really caught my eye, and I hope you don't take that as too pedantic.
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#8 User is offline   Coalhands 

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 09:11 PM

Cheers for the crits! You both definitely have good points - I'll explain my thinking behind those decisions. The amount of coins I suppose is up to each person. For some reason I always envisioned him with quite a few dropped off, but that's just me. Though I'm not sure they functioned as armour or were described as doing so - but then again I often can't be bothered finding too many quotes in my dilapidated books, so if you are referring to something in particular, do let me know! I do like the takes of him with more coins on too. Maybe it could be seen as reflecting the passage of time - he starts off with a lot, then they drop off as the series goes on. The last book of the main series I read was Reaper's Gale, so I was drawing from that mostly. Rhulad alone on the throne, descending into madness, Triban Gnol manipulating his thoughts etc.

Ah now Puck that's something I was hesitant about too. You see, in my overthinking of things, I wondered how the skin would react. Because he was dead when they were applied, so how would that affect scar tissue? Would scars only form after he was reanimated? It doesn't matter really I suppose. I settled for giving the scars a subtle ridge, assuming that the coins had a raised rim, which most did in my image search for ancient coins. As for the shape, that depends on how much you picture them being heated up (like above, comes down to the reader I think). I pictured them being solid, but soft enough to conform to the contours of the body somewhat. Since next to nowhere is flat in the human form, they would need to mould on a bit. Next, skin tearing - I was always under the impression they dropped off, rather than being torn off, so I wouldn't think there would be much trauma beyond the initial scarring. As a slight design note, I wanted some regularity to the shapes, along with some variety in texture and edge. A harsher treatment might create a lot of aggressive, distracting shapes, whereas I wanted the focus to be on his eyes mostly.

Thanks again - I always really enjoy reading about how others see these characters! And any chance to waffle on about my thought process and I'll grab it with both hands :killingme:
" ...neither mortal nor immortal can fathom the mind of an artist. But as a general rule, between two possible answers, choose the more sordid one." - Bugg, Dust Of Dreams
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#9 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 09:39 PM

I think the coins should be purple. I mean coins are generally gold, silver, or copper I guess, but who's to say those metals aren't purple in a fantasy world?
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
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#10 User is offline   Dolmen 2.0 

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 09:56 PM

View PostCoalhands, on 23 February 2018 - 09:11 PM, said:

Cheers for the crits! You both definitely have good points - I'll explain my thinking behind those decisions. The amount of coins I suppose is up to each person. For some reason I always envisioned him with quite a few dropped off, but that's just me. Though I'm not sure they functioned as armour or were described as doing so - but then again I often can't be bothered finding too many quotes in my dilapidated books, so if you are referring to something in particular, do let me know! I do like the takes of him with more coins on too. Maybe it could be seen as reflecting the passage of time - he starts off with a lot, then they drop off as the series goes on. The last book of the main series I read was Reaper's Gale, so I was drawing from that mostly. Rhulad alone on the throne, descending into madness, Triban Gnol manipulating his thoughts etc.



I enjoy talking to you about your work. I wanna echo Puck here, I'm just offering my thoughts.
use em or not, this is still a great image.

There is a quote from Bars in his discussion with Seran Pedec, after his tussle with Rhulad, wherein he comments about Rhulad's skill and how strange his 'armor was'.

I can find it if you like? anyways my point is for someone just sort of breezing by Bars must have thought the coins significant enough a block against weapons hence the use of his hands. Also there's description of Rhulad developing muscle to rival Fear from carrying the weight of the coins. I have no idea how much coins you'd need to wear to affect you that much but it sounds like alot hence my suggestion.
“Behind this mask there is more than just flesh. Beneath this mask there is an idea... and ideas are bulletproof Gas-Fireproof.”
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#11 User is offline   Gorefest 

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 10:18 PM

View Postworry, on 23 February 2018 - 09:39 PM, said:

I think the coins should be purple. I mean coins are generally gold, silver, or copper I guess, but who's to say those metals aren't purple in a fantasy world?



Similar as to how toads in a fantasy world can look completely frog-like?
She went and she left me like litter. She took all future summers with her. I lost all my money cuz I tried to bribe her. Now I can only afford an amateur sniper.
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#12 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 10:30 PM

The realm of imagination is infinite!
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
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#13 User is offline   Coalhands 

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 10:43 PM

Purple is the colour of royalty and wealth.. so... there you go! Purple coins it is :killingme: I'm reasonably sure they're referred to as gold, but maybe that's on the purple end of the spectrum in Wu!

Those are both fair points Dolmen. I definitely think there's an argument to be made for him being very densely covered in the coins. I'm just going to use the get-out-of-jail-free card of artistic license :D He definitely had hundreds of coins burned on, but how close together they were, how big they were, what shape they were, how many fell off and when.. it gets a bit subjective. As long as he's identifiable as Rhulad, I'm happy :D
" ...neither mortal nor immortal can fathom the mind of an artist. But as a general rule, between two possible answers, choose the more sordid one." - Bugg, Dust Of Dreams
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#14 User is offline   Whisperzzzzzzz 

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 10:57 PM

I just realized (again) who you are — your new username keeps confusing me. Dude, you've improved so much over the past 4 or 5 years!
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#15 User is offline   Coalhands 

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 11:10 PM

Haha thanks Whisperz! This actually isn't my first go at Rhulad. I'll look for my first one.. hmm, I thought I'd seen it the other day, but the image is no longer working on the forum (this is the thread - https://forum.malaza...-rhulad-sengar/). Anyway, I'm doing my best to get better :killingme:

Edit - I've just briefly read through the thread. A lot of similar things mentioned about the coins xD A timeless conversation it seems.

This post has been edited by Coalhands: 23 February 2018 - 11:11 PM

" ...neither mortal nor immortal can fathom the mind of an artist. But as a general rule, between two possible answers, choose the more sordid one." - Bugg, Dust Of Dreams
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#16 User is offline   - Coltaine -  

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 12:28 AM

Absolutly awesome :killingme:
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#17 User is offline   Puck 

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 02:08 PM

I think I can put the issue of whether the coins function as armour or not to rest, because Rhulad himself calls them armour:

Quote

Rhulad smiled and continued, 'I should tell you, the weight no longer drags me. I feel... unburdened. Yes, my brother, I find myself pleased. Oh, does that shock you? Why? Can you not see my wealth? My armour? Am I not a bold vision of an Edur warrior?'
[MT]


Bolded for emphasis. Furthermore, almost every time the coins are decribed, the narration calls them armour, and especially that second quote among the following ones shows how close they are placed to each other.

Quote

[...] Rhulad Sengar's corpse was undergoing a transformation, acquiring gleaming armour, becoming something other than Tiste Edur. [...]
[MT]

A crazed mask of wax, cracked and scarred. And beneath it, gold coins, melted onto the flesh – not one had dislodged – angled like the scales of armour around the stretched jaw, the gasping mouth.
[MT]

[Udinaas] [...] 'He's not ready to speak. The screaming has exhausted him, given the weight of the coins encasing his chest.' [...]
[MT]


As to how the flesh beneath looks, there isn't much, but the instance Udinaas places the first coin is described, though it's mentioned that the first two coins are the least hot:

Quote

A soft sizzle, as the skin of the lid melted, all moisture drawn from it so that it tightened round the coin. Holding it fast.
[MT]


This reads like at least the uppermost layer of skin being basically melted away, which means that if the coins come off, this layer would still be missing and the area would be left with a visible indent of scar tissue. Here are a couple more quotes regarding what Rhulad's skin looks like some time afterwards:

Quote

[...] For all the glittering gold, the flesh beneath was twisted and scarred. To fashion the façade, all that lay beneath it had been malformed.
[MT]

[...] looking out with red-rimmed eyes, his fragmented armour of coins gleaming in the light of the traditional torches lining the chamber's walls; and where those coins were missing, there was naught but scarred tissue, crimson-ringed weals of malformed flesh. [...]
[RG]



Just to be clear, I'm not trying to say that's how he should be drawn, artistic license and personal preferences and all, just trying to lay the issue to rest once and for all.

Also, I probably didn't word what I meant properly. My issue is that I'm not seeing any scar ridges and anything. The skin beneath the blood (?) looks hale und untouched except in a couple places, which is what makes the red look like paint. The decription does not sound to me like the coins are heated up enough to start changing shape, and they're not meant to be layered such that the body could move, anyway, so I don't think the coins themselves would conform to the curvature of the body, only their placement. The reason I think they would tear the skin is, again, because the uppermost fat layer of the skin is burned away, the coins fused to the layer beneath, and to be able to come away, some tearing would happen.

I realise that I'm overly critical, but then again, I only bother mentioning it because I love the image otherwise (I love the teeth by the way, totally forgot to mention than :killingme:).

Since we've had this discussion all over the forum so many times, I figured providing quotes would make it much easier.

This post has been edited by Puck: 24 February 2018 - 02:13 PM

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#18 User is offline   misteradam 

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 11:44 PM

Awesome!
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